Are they ripping us off?

[sigsour]

With some of the prices of lights out there; I have wondered what some of the real profit margins really are. Do all these companies charge crazy prices because we are the only group of individuals to buy them? or is it like any other business venture out there...just wondering.

 

[Sgt. LED]

I live under the thin delusion that everyone is ripping me off.

 

[ampdude]

If it's too much, don't buy it.

I'm not swayed by strobe/SOS or the latest emitter in a $200 flashlight. Most of the features in the wonderlights I don't want anyways. I don't like lights that are too small to hold. Lights that don't fit to the bottom of my pocket. Or lights that I need to take a college course to learn how to operate. They are completely impractical and probably won't work how you want them to in an emergency or under general usage anyways. I know what I like and in what format. If there's a new emitter to come out, I'll somehow stick it in an E-series and P/C-series compatible light by way of mod, Malkoff, or Dealextreme.

 

[yellow]

partly material,
partly machining,
partly electronics,
partly finish quality,
partly quality control,
partly "ripping"

simply get a cheapo and a medium price/quality and compare.
There is quite a difference.

IF there is enough difference between medium and high price, thats to be argued about
(but remember, it is just since the entry of Fenix, that there is a medium level with THIS quality)

 

[ampdude]

I've never been overly impressed with the build quality or operation any Fenix light I've ever seen. But I will agree with you that they are "medium" quality lights and generally a good value. The biggest neg is that they are not very user upgradeable without medium to advanced modding skills and the moving parts (and the whole light itself) are more prone to failure than a Surefire type light.

 

[yellow]

I knew this will - again - quickly become a SF vs. all thread.

PS: wrong on "more prone to failure"

 

[ampdude]

By mentioning Fenix, you virtually guaranteed a comparision to other lights.

 

[hyperloop]

Do r&d costs factor into all this as well?

I'd also venture a guess that quality controls play a part too, had to recently deal with a supplier where factoring in the costs for quality control i.e. testing the product before shipment really kicked up the costs.

 

[ZMZ67]

Considering what major retailers like Wal-Mart and Target are charging for their LED flashlight offerings I don't think so.Certainly major retailers are not marketing to flashaholics but for the same models pricing is no better.Target sells the INOVA X5 at somewhere around $35 wich is about what you end up paying online.You may get cheap clearance prices but that is a function of the retailer clearing inventory or old stock.There are more lights under $30 but they often use lower grade LEDs like the XR-C or poor battery configurations like three AAA.Many of those lights lack efficiency and the overall quality is less than mid-range lights like Fenix or Nitecore.
Some of the more expensive lights may be overpriced to some extent but they usually offer something even the mid-range lights don't have.

 

[drmaxx]

Prices have nothing to do with cost. Usually they are higher but that's about it. The price is all about finding the highest price most people are still willing to pay (= optimising profits).
This can be high above costs or very thin margins. It is not consistent and I am sure it is not consistent for flashlights as well.

 

[Petersen]

I live under the thin delusion that everyone is ripping me off.

Worst rip-off would still be on used cars....:devil:

 

[csshih]

With some of the prices of lights out there; I have wondered what some of the real profit margins really are. Do all these companies charge crazy prices because we are the only group of individuals to buy them? or is it like any other business venture out there...just wondering.

define rip off?

25% profit, 50% profit, 100% profit, 200% profit?
I happen to know a few prices, and I can say they're(dealer) not ripping you off.

the manufacturer? that's a whole different story.

 

[McGizmo]

....
25% profit, 50% profit, 100% profit, 200% profit?
....

For one to enjoy 100% profit, the cost would have to be zero and the selling price could be $1 or $1,000,000; in either case, 100% would be profit. I think achieving 200% profit would involve a black hole and or anti gravity. :thinking:

 

[csshih]

d'oh. that's what I get for writing at 2AM.

how do you say profit like this:
you make a light for, say, 50$, and sell it for 50.
100?
150?

too sleepy to function, thanks for that correction.

I'd like a 200% profit black hole please.

 

[HELL LIGHT]

define rip off?

25% profit, 50% profit, 100% profit, 200% profit?
I happen to know a few prices, and I can say they're(dealer) not ripping you off.

the manufacturer? that's a whole different story.

In order for the manufacturer to make 100% profit it has to be made from prison labor which is illegal in this country unless they are imported from countries like China!!!!

 

[RobertM]

Prices have nothing to do with cost. Usually they are higher but that's about it. The price is all about finding the highest price most people are still willing to pay (= optimising profits).
This can be high above costs or very thin margins. It is not consistent and I am sure it is not consistent for flashlights as well.

You sir, are 100% correct!



I think what csshih was referring to was percent-markup not profit margin.

 

[mwaldron]

The basis of any free market financial transaction is that both parties leave the transaction feeling like they got a good deal. If the customer doesn't feel it's worth the price, he doesn't buy it. If the dealer doesn't feel he was adequately compensated, he waits for a better offer (or another customer).

A really good transaction is when both parties feel they ripped the other off.

Some lights are horrendously overpriced, yet we still buy them. I own a few Surefire lights and I own a few maglites.

I also own a Sig-Sauer pistol, but I could have just bought a piece of tupperware, it would have been much cheaper.

 

[LEDninja]

We are ripping us off.

Instead of an Fenix LD10,
we can buy a Fenix L1T v2.0,
or an Ultrafire C3.

For those of us who have made the 14X jump from 5mm to Luxeon and 2X jump from Luxeon to Cree, is that 1.05X improvement from Q5 to R2 worth it?

 

[gswitter]

how do you say profit like this:
you make a light for, say, 50$, and sell it for 50.
100?
150?

Multiple of the "bill of materials" (BOM). $50 would be 1x BOM, $100 would be 2x BOM, etc.

At a previous job, working for a large consumer electronics company, our target price was always 5x BOM. 5x would theoretically cover non-BOM costs (development, marketing, infrastructure, etc) and leave enough extra to keep the shareholders happy.

 

[ninjaboigt]

I live under the thin delusion that everyone is ripping me off.

i feel the same...but i try not to feel bad, because if i was to try to make a flashlight by hand, or anything else, it'd take me years...but i know how to make money lol so...yea...