Aux. light plan-advice/comments please

[krutj]

I've been in the planning stage too long, ready to start. My plan is to use my extra H-4 Hella lenses, purchase some cans to stuff them into and have rallylights build me a harness to run this contraption from switched power inside of the cab. I have a set of Cibie Z's (from Hilldweller) for my primary headlights and they are the best darn lens that I've ever had. I'm attempting to build a set of aux. lights to compliment the Cibies, so far my dilemma has been the "compliment" part.

Is the light pattern of the Cibie and Hella too different to make this work? I've had both installed and with the Hella throwing so much light right in front, I'm having a problem deciding on the bulb to use/try initially. With only the Cibies, I can spot a deer in the bush and have avoided several because of the superior pattern and I do not want to interfere with that, hence, my dilemma....

I've got all the measurements for the harness, and all the other stuff that I think I'll need, I am stuck on the bulbs to use though. Maybe a low wattage bulb? Yellow tint? My objective is to NOT screw up the great pattern from the Cibies or screw up my long range night vision...

I appreciate any ideas,tips,suggestions.........thanks! (did I make any sense?)

 

[-Virgil-]

I can't tell just what you're trying to do. What kind of auxiliary lighting are you interested in having? I can't imagine your needing auxiliary low beams, not with the performance of the Z-beams. Please explain?

 

[krutj]

I can't tell just what you're trying to do. What kind of auxiliary lighting are you interested in having? I can't imagine your needing auxiliary low beams, not with the performance of the Z-beams. Please explain?

I'm attempting to build my own driving lights. Since I have the Hella lens and I think that I can build them for less money than buying, my thought was that the Hella H-4's, stuffed into a 7" can would be a better solution than buying a manufactured driving/fog light. I'm in NW Pennsylvania deer country and drive into the Allegheny Mtns daily at 5am, very dark forested area and deer hits are common, I have used Osram rally 70/65's and the Phillips Xtreme +80's in the Cibies, however, I'm only getting 3-4 months from them and they usually pop while on the road to work, I also occasionally hit some really nasty snow storms. So my (amateur) thinking is to make a set of lights to cover my backside in case my headlights pop and to have some serious aux. lighting for the real nasty weather that I encounter, of course I'm planning to have these aux. lights aimed rather low, and I was hoping that with the right bulb they would give me better options than a set of manufactured aux. lights.

The performance of the Z beams is extraordinary, the best that I've ever had the privilege to drive behind. The lights that I would like to build would not be used very often, only as a back-up, if I take a deer hit and damage my Cibies, or if a bulb(usually both at the same time) pops. I have to run my lights to and from work as a rule. I would also like to have lights to defeat the heavy snowfall that we get here (lake effect). That is why I'm considering a lower wattage or a yellow tint bulb or any foul weather type bulb that you may recommend. I do not need to blast the night away, the Cibies work great for me and my night vision and I don't want to do anything to change that. I also drive in heavy fog during the summer months, so I will probably only need the low beam on a set up like I want to build, the high beams would defeat my purpose, I think. What I'm proposing would be like an extra set of headlights, for emergency use and foul weather, but I'd like them to compliment the Z's and not put so much light in front of me that they overwhelm the Z's.

I'm open to any ideas or criticisms to make something that will work, if you think it's bunk, I can accept that too...I appreciate any assistance.

 

[-Virgil-]

I'm attempting to build my own driving lights.

"Driving lamp" means auxiliary high beams. The Hella H4 units in high beam mode would make fine cheap driving lamps.

a better solution than buying a manufactured driving/fog light

There's practically no such thing as a "driving/fog light". They are two different kinds of lamp. If you are talking about using the Hella H4s in low beam mode as fog lamps, that would work if you aim them low, but then they'd be of no use in high beam mode as "driving" lights. And really, if you've got Z-beams I can't imagine fog lamps being of much real benefit.

The performance of the Z beams is extraordinary, the best that I've ever had the privilege to drive behind.

Agreed...so of course the manufacturer discontinued them and didn't build them in other sizes (D'OH!).

I would also like to have lights to defeat the heavy snowfall that we get here (lake effect).

How are the Z-beams not doing this for you?

I'd like them to compliment the Z's and not put so much light in front of me that they overwhelm the Z's.

I'm having trouble imagining how this would be possible. It sounds like your primary goal is for an emergency backup set of headlamps, in which case equip them with, say, another set of 70/65w H4s and aim them correctly (not higher or lower than they should be) and use them as emergency backups in low beam mode if it becomes necessary, and as auxiliary high beam "driving" lights whenever the main headlamps are on high beam.

 

[krutj]

"Driving lamp" means auxiliary high beams. The Hella H4 units in high beam mode would make fine cheap driving lamps.

Great..^ +1 for my plan.

There's practically no such thing as a "driving/fog light". They are two different kinds of lamp. If you are talking about using the Hella H4s in low beam mode as fog lamps, that would work if you aim them low, but then they'd be of no use in high beam mode as "driving" lights. And really, if you've got Z-beams I can't imagine fog lamps being of much real benefit.

Agreed..^ still part of my dilemma, can't have it all..lol

Agreed...so of course the manufacturer discontinued them and didn't build them in other sizes (D'OH!).

I took a stone hit last winter, shattered a Z, called DS, bought the very last one he had on the shelf...now I'm freaked, what can I get to replace a perfect lens?

How are the Z-beams not doing this for you?

Two weeks ago, the snow came so hard and fast out of the north that I nearly had to stop driving, the only way that I could continue was the fact that the road had "rumble" strips in the center line and I kept on them as to not drive off the road...otherwise, my Z's perform outstanding. I do understand that sometimes nothing works.

I'm having trouble imagining how this would be possible. It sounds like your primary goal is for an emergency backup set of headlamps, in which case equip them with, say, another set of 70/65w H4s and aim them correctly (not higher or lower than they should be) and use them as emergency backups in low beam mode if it becomes necessary, and as auxiliary high beam "driving" lights whenever the main headlamps are on high beam.

YES...^ that's the primary goal...but with the difference in light pattern between the kinda cheapie Hellas and the perfection of the Cibies, do you think that the Hellas will put too much light in front and negate the Cibies? I thank you very much for your time, I do not want to be a pain...I also don't want to throw money at a project that will fail....

Based on our exchange, I think this will be worthwhile to attempt...when complete, I'll give you an update. Can we post pics here?

 

[Hilldweller]

Based on our exchange, I think this will be worthwhile to attempt...when complete, I'll give you an update. Can we post pics here?

Of course you can post pics, Joel.
I think the project will do what you're after. I'd just get used to the idea that you won't use them too often.
The lowbeams on the Hellas have much more foreground light than the Z-Beams and the highbeams are higher. The Hellas also have a big hotspot in the middle.
You'll be the only kid on the block with them though....

 

[krutj]

Of course you can post pics, Joel.
I think the project will do what you're after. I'd just get used to the idea that you won't use them too often.
The lowbeams on the Hellas have much more foreground light than the Z-Beams and the highbeams are higher. The Hellas also have a big hotspot in the middle.
You'll be the only kid on the block with them though....

I agree Bill, these won't be needed often...I'll post up a pic when finished.

 

[krutj]

Well, here's the lights....I have to say, these are far better than I imagined and far better than any aftermarket lights I've seen. Now I need good brackets to fine tune the aim, these are too hot to just use. Any suggestions?

The buckets..

The harness...

Left switch for low beam/right for high beam

The lights...7" Hella H-4's with high/low beam

And my primary headlights are Cibie Z-beams......all four= crazy light, this project is by no means complete. I have cosmetic stuff to do, and now my quest is for really good mounting brackets, I'll probably make my own.

 

[Hilldweller]

Obligitory beamshot request...

 

[krutj]

Obligitory beamshot request...

Very soon sir.....

 

[Hilldweller]

Very soon sir.....

What ever happened, Joel?
Update us...


I read in Overland Journal yesterday that IPF is coming out with "IPF 900 Dual-Beam Driving Lights for $435" soon. :caution:

They're going to put one of their H4 reflectors in a pair of buckets with an 80watt lowbeam/110watt highbeam bulb. I'm pretty curious about this since the pricetag seems unreasonably high for H4 technology, especially IPF... ...the H4 reflectors that I've already seen from them were among the worst I ever saw on a Jeep.

Anybody have more intel on the new lights?
Seems to me to be just a poorly executed version of what Joel made for his Jeep with a steep pricetag....

 

[krutj]

What ever happened, Joel?
Update us...


I read in Overland Journal yesterday that IPF is coming out with "IPF 900 Dual-Beam Driving Lights for $435" soon. :caution:

They're going to put one of their H4 reflectors in a pair of buckets with an 80watt lowbeam/110watt highbeam bulb. I'm pretty curious about this since the pricetag seems unreasonably high for H4 technology, especially IPF... ...the H4 reflectors that I've already seen from them were among the worst I ever saw on a Jeep.

Anybody have more intel on the new lights?
Seems to me to be just a poorly executed version of what Joel made for his Jeep with a steep pricetag....

I built mine for under $200, rather easy to do too. I think any potential buyers need to understand that they will need a heavy duty harness to operate these lights. Does IPF sell the lights with a harness?
I have been using mine since last winter and can tell any potential buyers....be careful. Mine are too bright to use on any highway...period. They delete any oncoming lights and turn off street lights. Great for back road use, but for over $400....build your own.
Historically, IPF is rather lacking for a good reflector and bulbs. (I wonder if they'll use "blue bulbs")
I also wonder if they've been trolling........

 

[Hilldweller]

The ad I saw said a harness/switch comes with the kit.

 

[brdavis9]

Re: Aux. light plan-advice/comments please ...now IPA JO1 advice

There's practically no such thing as a "driving/fog light". They are two different kinds of lamp. If you are talking about using the Hella H4s in low beam mode as fog lamps, that would work if you aim them low, but then they'd be of no use in high beam mode as "driving" lights.

First post. Found forum from a suggestion at expeditionportal.com. Found thread while searching for info on IPF JO1's. Noticed the OP seems to have gone missing, so felt it wasn't really thread-jacking, and your statement seemed a good place to start. My apologies if I'm in the wrong place, or have inadvertently stepped on a forum rule. Please feel free to correct any blunders, and/or redirect me to the right place.

Anyways. I purchased on CL yesterday a pair of [now discontinued by the mfr] IPF JO1's ...and they actually are fog lights with a driving beam included. Here's a link to pix of 'em and a beam pattern (I have the black ones). They seemed quite a bit nicer than the Hella 500's on my '02 TJ.

The JO1's weren't a "kit" though. They didn't include the mounting brackets (I feel confident I can fab those as needs be), nor was there the relays and switch and harness. It was just the cans.

I have read that the JO1 could have either the fog light and drive light or both lit at the same time. And someone mentioned a "4 pole switch" (although I was using my wife's Kindle Fire when I came across that, so I don't have a link). Somewhere else, someone was looking for a replacement relay (or relays: I wasn't quite clear on it), and that was preferred because it was "dual relays" (that was not clear to me, either).

The intended application is to mount these on our '96 XJ dd. I would appreciate any advice or suggestions you might have.

TIA.

 

[Hilldweller]

Re: Aux. light plan-advice/comments please ...now IPA JO1 advice

I doubt that those lights can live up to any of the advertising hype on their web-page ----- wiring them shouldn't be too hard though.

How are you looking to make them work? The "driving" portion with highbeams and "fog" portion with lows? I doubt very much whether either beam is very good at either function though. Not trying to wee on your Cheerios; just my experience with IPF...

 

[brdavis9]

Re: Aux. light plan-advice/comments please ...now IPA JO1 advice

I doubt that those lights can live up to any of the advertising hype on their web-page ----- wiring them shouldn't be too hard though.

How are you looking to make them work? The "driving" portion with highbeams and "fog" portion with lows? I doubt very much whether either beam is very good at either function though. Not trying to wee on your Cheerios; just my experience with IPF...

Well, truth be told, I wish I'd have found this forum before I purchased them lol (I spent a few hours reading threads here yesterday, and I managed to about quintuple my previous paucity of knowledge: this forum is a gem). I would have went ahead and just bought another pair of Hella 500's (fogs) as a kit for the XJ, and been done with it. My bad. (In my defence, it was a kind of spur of the moment purchase, since the CL item I'd driven an hour to buy was a different part, but the owner had been unable to correctly measure a simple width so that guard wouldn't work at all for me ...those were sitting there, so I thought "what the 'ell" and bought them to save the trip: I should have cut my losses, ha.)

But since I own them now, I might as well use them. As bling, I already have a nice place for them on the brush guard lol. So, there's that. And I'd assume they can't make matters worse, at least (or they will remain in the off position, as primarily bling ...until I can afford another set ...and from what I've read here, I think upgrading the stock headlights in both vehicles is what I should have done first, regardless ...sigh, live and learn).

As for how I'd like them to work. I would like the IPF high beam to come on when I turn the high beams on, yes ...but only when the IPF high beam is separately switched on. And I'd like to be able to turn the fogs on or off separately whether the high beam is in use or not. If my thinking is correct, that way I could have both on when the high beam is on, and just add-in the fogs at my whim (being able to augment the low beam with the fogs, whether the high beams are on or off).

Does that make sense to want to do?

What I'd also like to know is what relay (relays?) I'll need, and what switch. (If I could trouble you for specific model/part numbers, I'd appreciate it.) I'd really like to be able to use the stock connector on the lights, too, so a pointer as to what the thing is called would be great to aid me in searching for the female half). I'll try and get a pix of that, and post it later this morning.

 

[-Virgil-]

Re: Aux. light plan-advice/comments please ...now IPA JO1 advice

Yes, headlamps should always be the first upgrade -- go carefully; there are a lot of options, all of them are sold as an upgrade, and most of them are a downgrade or at best offer no real improvement. Good options exist but are much fewer.

Those lamps you bought aren't very good, but they're not the worst on the road. Take care to aim them by setting the cutoff at the top of the fog beam (if it produces a cutoff...) to 4" declination as described here, even if that means the "driving" beams are not aimed the way you'd like.

I would like the IPF high beam to come on when I turn the high beams on, yes ...but only when the IPF high beam is separately switched on.

Yep, that's the best way to set up the "driving" beam portion of those lamps.

And I'd like to be able to turn the fogs on or off separately whether the high beam is in use or not.

There is no good reason to have fog lamps on with high beams -- all they can do is degrade your distance vision by flooding the foreground and constricting your pupils.

(being able to augment the low beam with the fogs, whether the high beams are on or off).

If we're talking about a Jeep or other vehicle with one headlamp per side, you should not be able to run the low and high beams together. Fogs with lows is defensible in some cases. Fogs with highs is not.

If the lamps have some kind of a proprietary multi-wire plug on them, you likely won't be able to source its mate (it would not surprise me if IPF wants you to buy their harness), and will have to cut off the plug and terminate the wires individually. How to set up the relay(s) and switch(es) depends on how high-class of a job you want to do and how much failsafing you want to build into the system. Probably the most cost-effective way to do it is to have one toggle switch for the fog function and another for the "driving" function, and just wire up these two dual-function lamps as if they were four separate lamps -- a pair of aux high beam "driving" lamps, and a pair of fog lamps.

 

[brdavis9]

Re: Aux. light plan-advice/comments please ...now IPA JO1 advice

Here's a picture of the connector. (I'll try and post in the image, but I may not have enough permission to do that, so I'll include the link, too.)

Link: http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i341/brdavis9/Jeeps/IPFJ0-1connector.jpg

 

[-Virgil-]

Re: Aux. light plan-advice/comments please ...now IPA JO1 advice

Yeah, that's not something you're going to find on the market.

Also I don't see any markings on the lens of this alleged lamp...does it have any? What do they say? I do see a blue bulb in the "driving" lamp compartment -- you really ought to remove that and at least give the lamp a chance to do something for you by putting in a proper colorless-glass bulb.

 

[brdavis9]

Re: Aux. light plan-advice/comments please ...now IPA JO1 advice

Yes, headlamps should always be the first upgrade -- go carefully; there are a lot of options, all of them are sold as an upgrade, and most of them are a downgrade or at best offer no real improvement. Good options exist but are much fewer..

I'll almost certainly return here to ask when I get to that point. I saw you directing someone to ...hmm: Daniel Stern parts website ...and so I'm going to take that same advice. I'll be replacing the headlights in both the Cherokee and Wrangler (the Wrangler has incredibly poor stock lighting ...the Cherokee isn't nearly as bad).

Those lamps you bought aren't very good, but they're not the worst on the road. Take care to aim them by setting the cutoff at the top of the fog beam (if it produces a cutoff...) to 4" declination as described here, even if that means the "driving" beams are not aimed the way you'd like.

I will follow that link, and your suggestion. Thanks!

There is no good reason to have fog lamps on with high beams -- all they can do is degrade your distance vision by flooding the foreground and constricting your pupils.

I didn't know that at all (never gave it a thought before), so you just changed my mind about it.

If we're talking about a Jeep or other vehicle with one headlamp per side, you should not be able to run the low and high beams together. Fogs with lows is defensible in some cases. Fogs with highs is not.

It is a Jeep (I only have the two Jeeps, lol). And I didn't know about using one beam turning off the other, either (hadn't thought about that before, either: makes sense, now).

Also, after posting this morning, and re-reading and thinking about your first reply, it occurred to me that maybe you were saying that I could simply wire the driving light to the Cherokee's high beam switch, and the fog light directly to the low beam switch? And with perhaps a single toggle switch to optionally leave the fog light in the off position (since there's no point in having the fog on with high beams anyway, as you explained)?

If the lamps have some kind of a proprietary multi-wire plug on them, you likely won't be able to source its mate (it would not surprise me if IPF wants you to buy their harness), and will have to cut off the plug and terminate the wires individually.

It wouldn't surprise me either :).

I'd already posted a picture of the connector (and was a bit surprised posting it worked) before I read your reply ...but I'm not averse to cutting off the proprietary one and using std. connectors (my first car MANY years ago was a Bugeye Sprite that I had to totally rewire, as it had been stripped of all its street electrics wiring harness for circle-eight track racing ...that was the only one of the several British cars I had back then that had zero electrical issues: beginners luck I'm sure, but a sad indictment of Lucas electrics, nonetheless LOL).

How to set up the relay(s) and switch(es) depends on how high-class of a job you want to do and how much failsafing you want to build into the system. Probably the most cost-effective way to do it is to have one toggle switch for the fog function and another for the "driving" function, and just wire up these two dual-function lamps as if they were four separate lamps -- a pair of aux high beam "driving" lamps, and a pair of fog lamps.

So ...hmm. I assume that this would preclude wiring them directly into the Cherokee's switch (somehow or other)?

Could I use the wiring diagram that came with my Hella 500's then, as a "model" for what I need to do with the IPFs? I've had the J0-1's apart now, and I know the red wire is to the drive light halogen bulb, and the white wire is to the fog light halogen bulb ...and the black is to the common ground. With that info, I could just use the Hella wiring diagram?

What I'm still unclear about is a relay ...and whether I'd need one or two (or none, if I tied the lights somehow into the Cherokee's circuitry).