BAD FENIX REBELS?

[husky20]

I just read some very disturbing threads on the rebel emitters.Seems to have been some sort of recall on these and now im worried as hell.I was in total love with my p3d rebel 100.Now i have serious doubts about it did i get the one with the bad epoxy that supposedly lasts only 24 hours than breaks or what. If so i think its only right that fenix contacts us buyers with this recall information and does not try to fly under the radar and keep this hush hush and just hopes alot of people will never find this out! Mine was shipped October 1 2007 from the fenix store.

 

[Monocrom]

Looks like I'll be using my Fenix L0D Rebel 80 at work this week. Going to find out if there's really something wrong with it. Let's hope not.

 

[husky20]

I also have the LOD Rebel on my key chain this is very disturbing news! I bought this one from pacific tactical solutions.

 

[jumping hansje]

You mean this?!?

Dear Customer,
We have identified an issue with certain LUXEON Rebel (with TFFC) and LUXEON K2 with TFFC LEDs manufactured from WW0744 to WW0802. As a result, we are initiating this Return Request Action. This request does not impact production of all of the LUXEON Rebel and LUXEON K2 emitters; only the parts identified below are affected.

Situation:
We have identified a batch of non-conforming epoxy material used in the production of LUXEON Rebel (with TFFC) and LUXEON K2 with TFFC products manufactured from WW0744 to WW0802. This non-conforming epoxy material has the potential to cause the TFFC die to crack and fail during short-term operation. We have seen a failure rate that exceeds our specifications and, subject to the provisions of Philips Lumileds Standard Terms and Conditions of Sale or any executed sales agreement, are taking the necessary steps to resolve this issue.

Containment:
Philips Lumileds has temporarily suspended production of LUXEON Rebel (with TFFC) and LUXEON K2 with TFFC emitters. This production hold will remain in place until we have resolved the issue.

Date of production hold: WW0802.

Page: 2

Affected Parts and Date Codes:
In order to identify all affected emitters, we are providing a list of part numbers with
corresponding date codes to simplify this task.
Part Number Description Date Codes
LXML-PWC1-006 LUXEON Rebel Cool-White emitter (custom selection)
LXML-PWC1-007 LUXEON Rebel Cool-White emitter (custom selection)
LXML-PWC1-015 LUXEON Rebel Cool-White emitter (custom selection)
LXML-PWC1-016 LUXEON Rebel Cool-White emitter (custom selection)
LXML-PWC1-0070 70lm LUXEON Rebel Cool-White emitter
LXML-PWC1-0080 80lm LUXEON Rebel Cool-White emitter
LXML-PWC1-0090 90lm LUXEON Rebel Cool-White emitter
LXML-PWC1-0100 100lm LUXEON Rebel Cool-White emitter
LXML-PWN1-0070 70lm LUXEON Rebel Neutral-White emitter
LXML-PWN1-0080 80lm LUXEON Rebel Neutral-White emitter
LXML-PWN1-0100 100lm LUXEON Rebel Neutral-White emitter
LXML-PM01-010 LUXEON Rebel Green emitter (custom selection)
LXML-PM01-0070 70lm LUXEON Rebel Green emitter
LXML-PM01-0080 80lm LUXEON Rebel Green emitter
LXML-PE01-0060 60lm LUXEON Rebel Cyan emitter
LXML-PE01-0070 70lm LUXEON Rebel Cyan emitter
LXML-PB01-010 LUXEON Rebel Blue emitter (custom selection)
LXML-PB01-0013 13.9lm LUXEON Rebel Blue emitter
LXML-PB01-0018 18.1lm LUXEON Rebel Blue emitter
LXML-PB01-0023 23.5lm LUXEON Rebel Blue emitter
LXML-PR01-0275 275mW LUXEON Rebel Royal-Blue emitter
WW0744 to WW0802
inclusive
LXK2-PWC4-0160 160lm LUXEON K2 with TFFC Cool-White emitter
LXK2-PWC4-0180 180lm LUXEON K2 with TFFC Cool-White emitter
LXK2-PWC4-0200 200lm LUXEON K2 with TFFC Cool-White emitter
LXK2-PWC4-0220 220lm LUXEON K2 with TFFC Cool-White emitter
LXK2-PWN4-0140 140lm LUXEON K2 with TFFC Neutral-White emitter
LXK2-PWN4-0160 160lm LUXEON K2 with TFFC Neutral-White emitter
LXK2-PWN4-0180 180lm LUXEON K2 with TFFC Neutral-White emitter
LXK2-PWW4-0120 120lm LUXEON K2 with TFFC Warm-White emitter
LXK2-PWW4-0140 140lm LUXEON K2 with TFFC Warm-White emitter
LXK2-PWW4-0160 160lm LUXEON K2 with TFFC Warm-White emitter
WW0744 to WW0802
inclusive

Page: 3

Material disposition:
Philips Lumileds recommends all part numbers listed in the table above within the affected date codes are returned.

Unused inventory
Products should be returned to Philips Lumileds via the standard Return Materials Authorization (RMA) process.

Deployed material
In our internal testing, we have found that under normal operating conditions, the affected products experience infant mortality failure within the first 24 hours of operation.

Preliminary failure rate data suggests failure rates of 10-30%. The reliability of the affected products that survive the first 24 hours is under investigation. A follow-up notification will be issued as results become available.

Timing for Replacement Material
The verification of exact root cause of this quality issue is under rigorous investigation. We anticipate that our production line will resume sometime in March 2008. Further communication updates will be provided as it becomes available. We are continuing to stage material before the TFFC production line, so that we can rapidly restart production once we have proven/qualified corrective action.

We will provide updates to you as additional information becomes available.

Thank you for your attention in this matter.

Sincerely,
(Name Redacted)
Customer Quality Assurance
Philips Lumileds Lighting Company

 

[husky20]

Yes but it was a from a different thread i just dont know no how to ad the link yet? Any info anyone im dying here!

 

[Monocrom]

Adding a link is easy. Just type out the URL exactly as it appears, with no spaces.

 

[husky20]

Okay first question whats a URL and how do i find it:candle: im going to bed and play with my wicked lazer im depressed.

 

[techwg]

i was debating over trying to get a rebel light, since i have Q5 and cree Xre, but maybe i will hold off, and wait and see what the R2 looks like.

 

[nanotech17]

the main difference is with the production date.

 

[Jay R]

You seem to suggest that Fenix are trying to hide something with comments like "fly under the radar and keep this hush hush". I'm not sure why you would even suggest this as, as far as I can remember, Fenix have always had top notch customer service followed up by even better service through many of their retailers such as fenix-store.
This release is from Lumileds and so could affect any Rebel no matter whose torch it is in. Perhaps Fenix didn't receive any of these batches. Considering the hundreds of thousands of Rebels constructed and the, perhaps, one or two thousand Fenix received it seems possible.
LED's affected shipped from Phillips from the 28th Oct 07. Guessing that it takes a few weeks for Fenix to receive and manufacture and a few more to ship to the retailers, I'd suggest that if your light is more than a month old you have no worries and if newer than that, wait and see what happens.

 

[Crenshaw]

im thinking that if its still working, it should be fine..

but then ive always been a cree kinda guy...

Crenshaw

 

[Jay T]

Look at how many Fenix Rebel users there are here. Now look at all the reported failures. Are you still scared?

 

[luchs]

nevertheless, i would expect fenix to give us a short statement.

perhaps david from fenixstore can shed light on it.

 

[Lightingguy321]

If the unit was purchased and shipped to you on October 1st 2007 (that is WW0742) then the emitter in that light is from a batch made before WW0742, which is not included in the recall batch, so you should be fine. However, as the reprinted PDF shows, any rebel made between WW0744 and WW0802 (january 2nd) is on recall and from that day on, rebel/K2 TFFC production will be halted until the problem can be solved.

Monocrom-when did you purchase/recieve your RB80 LOD? If it was long before WW0744 (october 28th, 2007) you should be fine, other wise you may want to go through the lengthy process of RMAing the flashlight.

 

[MSaxatilus]

My advice to you is..... Knowing 4sevens and Fenix, I'm sure they will do right if you encounter a problem with the light. Continue to use your light normally, don't worry about it, and if something happens, contact David directly.

MSax

 

[L.E.D.]

Indeed quite disturbing. I just hope none of my Rebels are any of the affected TFFC ones.. SSC and Cree are all fine and when they fix the epoxy problem on the Rebel it will be fine also. Is it true though that the SSC has the best SHORT-TERM lumen maintenance especially at very high currents? Like, along the run of the battery, where the Rebel and the Cree will slightly dim from the heat, the SSC shows far less dimming (strictly thermal dimming). I think I read somewhere, might've been ElektroLumens at the marketplace, that the SSC will hold its lumens up even with shoddy heatsinking... Is the SSC really THIS awesome?

 

[steve_vance]

I just read some very disturbing threads on the rebel emitters.Seems to have been some sort of recall on these and now im worried as hell.I was in total love with my p3d rebel 100.Now i have serious doubts about it did i get the one with the bad epoxy that supposedly lasts only 24 hours than breaks or what. If so i think its only right that fenix contacts us buyers with this recall information and does not try to fly under the radar and keep this hush hush and just hopes alot of people will never find this out! Mine was shipped October 1 2007 from the fenix store.

As usual, a CPF discussion of a broader issue centers only on Fenix. Yawn. How predictable :thinking:

I like Fenix lights, but this is bigger than Fenix. Additionally, this is neither an issue that only involves Fenix (and therefore the Fenix-Store) nor is it an issue that in any way is their fault.
This problem applies not only to Fenix but to all the manufacturers using the TFFC-Rebel and the TFFC-K2.
This probably includes Streamlight, Inova, most of the names we know, many Chinese manufacturers like Shingfung, Ningbo Futai, and many others.

Additionally, this issue affects not only the Rebels but the K2 series as well.
The result is that there may not be Rebels or K2s available for a while, unless Lumileds has extraordinary damage control.

As you see from the quote below, production of the TFFC Rebels and the TFFC-K2 is now suspended.

For those of you who want the link to the press release, here it is:
http://www.solidstatelightingdesign.com/news/?id=9542#top

Please note that this information was only released by Lumileds 2 business days ago. Before you start throwing rocks at David or Fenix, remember that this is a much bigger issue, and that it is the OEM manufacturer's responsibility to be the first to release product recall notices.

 

[Monocrom]

Okay first question whats a URL and how do i find it:candle: im going to bed and play with my wicked lazer im depressed.

Sorry, I went to bed after making the last post. The URL is the web address that appears on your comp, for each individual site or webpage.

For example, here's the URL for a page that shows how to make a monkey fist lanyard....

http://www.wincingdevil.com/MonkeyFist.gif

(Look for the http:// and the rest of the URL on your comp. After that, you can go into the Practice Posting sub-forum on CPF, and try it out for yourself. Just type out the URL exactly as it appears [no spaces] and it should work).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To: Lightingguy321 -

I'm concerned a bit, since I got my L0D just before Christmas. :sigh:

I'll let you guys know how it holds up after a week of testing it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To: steve vance -

Thanks for the link.

 

[flashy bazook]

The new K2 seems possibly affected - the new Inova Tx's may be using it, if this is indeed the case, the timing of this could not be worse for Inova. You don't want your new and snazzy flashlight line to be affected right at the start from LED issues.

Fenix has been more recently using Q4/Q5 CREEs, the Rebel line was short lived (could this be a reason why? even if we didn't know it at the time), and they are in good shape with plenty of product not affected in the least from this new Rebel quality issue.

 

[FloggedSynapse]

As usual, a CPF discussion of a broader issue centers only on Fenix. Yawn. How predictable :thinking:

lol.. Steve, you should know by know CPF is the Surefire & Fenix show.

You're correct this is recall is likely going to effect many products. Hopefully it's just a temporary glitch -- I do prefer the tint of the Rebel compared to the Cree.

I recently ordered a rebel based L1D (around xmas) and am now in the process of burning it in. So far over 16 hours and it still seems fine. If it does fail I'll post when it does.

I can say the Cree stuff appears to be reliable based on my (1) sample :laughing:
I've been using a Cree based L2D as a lamp since last March and it now has hundreds of hours of use with no noticeable fade.