Batteries in Series, the one nearer to the LED get's drained first?

dinocol

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
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hi, i have noticed something new and im not sure if this has been posted here yet.

Im using an Ultrafire C2 flashlight with 2 rcr123a 3.7v. After some use the one nearest to the cree led measured 0.80V and the one nearest to the tail cap is still around 3.8V.

any explanations? jst curious since this is the first time iv noticed this.. iv always expected that they would drain at the same time.. :eek:
 
Hello Dinocol,

Welcome to CPF.

It sounds like you are using protected cells. The 0.80 volt cell has tripped the over discharge protection circuit. Put it in a charger for 10 seconds and check the voltage again. I should be closer to the 3.8 volts of the other cell.

It is better if you don't run Li-Ion cells all the way down to shut off. They love to be recharged often.

Tom
 
thanks silverfox.. iv been browsing a couple of months already but its only this time that i noticed something that i couldnt seem to explain. hehe

im using some generic 3.7v 1000mah batteries that i got off ebay. i think these are the unprotected ones. I've charged them both up a second time and switched their places and still the one nearer to the led got drained first.

is it only me that is experiencing this?
 
The current in a series circuit is the same in all parts of the circuit (what you have is a series circuit) so I'd be repeating your test with the batteries swapped around I would be suspecting one faulty cell.
Norm
 
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Hello Dinocol,

If your cells are unprotected, you probably have damaged them through over discharging. 0.8 volts is too low a voltage to go to. Be careful with that cell.

This has been observed with NiMh and Alkaline cells. The general thought is that the cell closest to the lamp warms up more lowering its internal resistance. This allows that cell to effectively drain more than the other cell.

All of this is very interesting, but there are also reports of the back cell ending up at a lower voltage. All in all, we don't really understand what is going on. As Norm pointed out, cells in series should be seeing the same current, but the ending voltages don't seem to bare that out.

The solution is to recharge often and not allow the cells to become over discharged.

Tom
 
That seems to be what my Maxfire XL's are doing. Draining one battery and not the other, though I haven't a clue which was which after I took them out.
 
thanks silverfox.. iv been browsing a couple of months already but its only this time that i noticed something that i couldnt seem to explain. hehe

im using some generic 3.7v 1000mah batteries that i got off ebay. i think these are the unprotected ones. I've charged them both up a second time and switched their places and still the one nearer to the led got drained first.

is it only me that is experiencing this?

no its not just you, i have observed this phenomena in many series battery situations, and have not yet figured out a logical reason for the occurance.
mabey its that there is more heat by the head, or mabey it is more complex thing having to do with flow of the electricity.

the real question is if the same thing occurs when there is zero heat differentials, and the connections are all solid as a rock.
In 4x and 2x series electronic tech gadgets i do NOT observe a + connected battery going down early YET.
so it must have more to do with a heat diffferential, heat from the head is changing how the chemistry in the first battery reacts.

did you know, that on LED gates in series there is also an observance that the first ones (or is it last ones :) trigger the gates differently. i am seeing this more in mega multi seires led setups, certain gates have a tendancy to trigger before others, but there is also a polarity pattern.

(of course the stuff about overdraining your li-ion to .8 is more of an issue as discussed, but that has been mentioned).

ya know , there are led lights that are wired in reverse (batteries go in reverse on PURPOSE), AND most incadescents can operate in similarity if all the batteries are reversed. items like that would show that its a heat differance not a electrical properties differance.

or a person could just increase the heat 3*C and drain a set, but i think that has been done. manufactures charts will show a capacity differance And rate differance, in temperature differances, both higher and lower depending on the chemisty can change the total capacity that gets expended, or the rate it can be used.
because the batteries consumers use are "room temperature" type, any change from room temperatures would usually be less total.
a warm lithium battery might output stonger , depleating its capacity faster.

not only do you have the heat from the led, but there is also the heat losses from the connections (here and there) and the heat losses from the curcuits, and SOME curcuits are ON the battery top itself, transferring heat right into it.
 
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thanks all for the informative replies.. I guess i have to observe again and if the one closest to the battery gets drained first, i'l have to swap their positions often as not to allow it to reach critical low voltage levels... :D
 
my fenixP3D does that too although i don't exactly recall which was the one nearest the led... took it camping and it started flickering badly and just stayed in one mode... replaced both batteres (cr123a's..)...

got home and used my zts tester and one was 100% life while the other was dead or 0%.....

i may look into getting the newer zts tester that also tests litium ions for christmas... that way i can test all the batteries i have and use both at home and at work...
 
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I've noticed uneven discharge quite often in my lights. Up until recently, I was using primary batteries (alkaline and lithium) almost exclusively, so my results are not from rechargeables.

I need a better tester, but I've noticed uneven discharge almost consistently with the Eternalight (one of my most used lights), but have seen it with other lights as well, including IIRC, some SF lights.

Have been wondering about this problem for a long time now, but until I get a ZTS tester and can make more "scientific" observations, it may all be just my imagination...!?!
 
I use 4 D alkaline (Duracell) cells in a Mag with a Malkoff high-powered LED drop-in.

I've noticed during the run, all 4 cells will discharge evenly, until they reach around 1.40 - 1.41 volts. Then the middle 2 will discharge quite a bit faster than the outer 2. I usually test them then, and then change cell positions. I don't know if this helps. :eek: I install fresh cells soon after.

I figure the cells are almost empty, but I'm not quite sure what is considered the resting voltage of empty alkaline D-cells . Anyone know off-hand?
 
Everything they taught is in school about electricity is a lie. :laughing:
And beside that every cell has differences with cheaper cells being less quality controlled and thus some will go bad easier. And everything others have mentioned above just adds to the probability that they won't discharge at the exact same rate. However my cells being controlled by a unique quantum field all discharge at exactly the same rate :D
 
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