Battery Question for LED Torches

Albinoni

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For LED torches would you reccomend NimH rechargeables over Alkaline or does it depend on overall application i.e how often you use the torch and how often you have the lamp on at one time. Will a user get longer run time from using a fully charged NiMH over a Alkaline or vice versa. Also NiMH batts are rated at 1.2 volts whereas Alkaline are rated at 1.5, now will there be a slight degrade in performace if 1.2 volts is used i.e the beam will be slightly less bright because of slightly less power. Also whats your view on Sanyo's Eneloop NiMH rechargeable batteries, seems that quite alot of people here like it.
 
Regarding the 1.2Volt vs 1.5 volt myth: http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/1.5_vs_1.2_Volt_Batteries.pdf

Summary: at 500mAh current, alkaline has higher voltage than nimh for 15 minutes. Alkaline starts to completely die at about 150 minutes, eneloop nimh runs about 220 minutes, and with higher voltage than alkaline for almost the entire time.

So for the first 15 minutes you might get more brightness with alkaline than with nimh, after that the nimh will be brighter. This if the LED is direct drive. If the torch has some regulation circuit, then you're likely to see them have the same brightness until the alkaline can't keep up anymore, nimh will run longer.

A fully charged nimh always wins in lights. In very low power devices like clocks and remote control, alkaline is probably better.

Keep in mind that regular nimh has high self-discharge rate, if you only use your light once a month, then regular nimh will have lost much of its energy. Low Self Discharge nimh, such as Sanyo Eneloop are better in that case.
 
:welcome:

does it depend on overall application
Yes. For example, I take alkalines with me for backup when caving, since they die more gradually than NiMH.

Will a user get longer run time from using a fully charged NiMH over a Alkaline or vice versa.
Depends on the current drawn. NiMH are better at higher currents. Energizer's datasheets now have graphs of capacity for different currents. Take a look and see where the crossover point is.

now will there be a slight degrade in performace if 1.2 volts is used i.e the beam will be slightly less bright because of slightly less power.
Find Curious_character's PDF on the issue. Standard torch bulbs are rated for 1.2V anyway (eg, 4.8V for a 4 cell "6V" torch), since it's a more typical voltage of an alkaline while in use than 1.5V is, because their voltage drops so much so quickly under load.

Edit:
Yes, that's it.

Also whats your view on Sanyo's Eneloop NiMH rechargeable batteries
:twothumbs The only sort of NiMH I'll buy now.
 
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Summary: at 500mAh current, alkaline has higher voltage than nimh for 15 minutes.
Current in mA, capacity in mAh. FWIW I did my own test at 1A and got an even shorter time than the 1A graph in that PDF indicates - just three minutes.
 
Alkaline rechargeables: The have the same voltage decay curve while discharging. They handle high current as poorly as primary alkalines. They last about 25 cycles tops. They have less capacity the more cycles they've done.
 
How does Alkaline rechargeables compare to that of NiMH batteries? Are rechageable Alkalines the same to that of normal Alkalines?
Oddly enough, I was an early adopter of Rayovac's rechargeable alkalines called Renewal back in the 1990's and I still have almost all the AAs and AAAs I bought back then. I had them stored away, and even though I lost the charger (I moved in 2001) I found the batteries a few months ago and sure enough they were fully charged they registered from 1.3 to 1.47 volts. I found some in a light box for viewing slides. They held their charge for more than 6 years inside the device and the box lite up like if I had just installed them.

Its true what Torchboy said. They tend to be weak batteries. However, I bought a new charger from Rayovac and their new charger does all three chemistry, NiMh, Rechargeable RAM Alkalines, and Nickel Cadmiums. I went further and order a newer generation from Pure Energy and they now have a version that can be recharged 500 times (only with a shallow discharge) and have higher capacity then the older Rayovac. They don't say what the capacity is. I also bought their charger. Also another company called "Juice" markets what I believe to be the Pure Energy RAMs which are made in Canada.

The bottom line is that the RAM (rechargeable Alkaline Manganese) have a very strong market niche. First of all, they have a shelf life of 5 years fully charge. There is no self-discharge like with even the eneloops, and secondly they come off the charger at around 1.6 volts. But they decay fairly linearly with power drainage unlike the NiMh which hold on between 1.3 and 1.2 volts during their drainage.

In my case, I have a AM Radio that I use in my office that is sensitive to voltage. Its a low drain device, I can get 40 hrs out of a set of 3 AA. But it likes fresh Alkalines. Once the batteries drop to about 1.3 volts the static increases because the stations I listen to (Talk Radio shows mainly) has lots of interference from all the electrical things in my office. But anyhow, the RAMs are a perfect fit because I can top off the battery for another month. Hence that radio always has fresh batteries in it between 1.5 and 1.4 volts. NiMh work, but not nearly as well because the starting voltage is where the alkalines drop off. The NiMh that I used to use would literally self-discharge faster than the actual radio would drain.

I would say that the RAMs are a good choice for a flashlight that will get little use like a car flashlight. It can sit for months and years in a hot car then be used when occassionally needed. Then you always have the option of topping off the batteries after a short intermitten use.
 
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we used "renewal" cells, they are REALLY well sealed, IF you used them and topped them off , they were fine, if you used them competely up, they would lose capacity. (it says in the directions not to use them up)
so while i was paying close attention, and recharging them religiously at the charge alter :) they worked ok.
as soon as we started using them more, and not topping them non-stop, and therefore fully discharging them, they died so fast , i never bought another one ever again.
we figured that one advantage of them over alkalines would be with the Can around them, i wouldnt be as likly to open a device that the alkaline had splooged into.
 
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Thanks Darkpower, I hadn't considered the shelflife. I guess there's a niche for them yet, for those who don't have high-drain requirements (and thus might have LSD NiMHs sitting around). I also hadn't heard that they are capable of 500 shallow cycles now. So I've learnt something else as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechargeable_alkaline_battery
Recharging Issues
Though they are relatively cheap and contain a high charge-capacity rechargeable alkaline batteries have some disadvantages:
* Full chargeable capacity is maintained for hundreds of cycles, only after the battery has been less than 25% discharged, at about 1.42V.
* Almost full chargeable capacity is maintained only for a few dozen recharging-cycles, only after the battery has been less than half discharged, at about 1.32V.
* After a 'Deep Discharge' they can be brought to their original high-capacity charge only after many frustrating charge-discharge cycles; thus, their 'Theoretical' high-capacity is available only for 'Emergency cases'.

I presume those voltages are rest voltages (no load).
 
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