Battery question

[Rasto36620]

First time poster here. I recently ordered a Fenix P3D Q5 for general use at home and work. Its seems like a great light from what I've read, but it uses these weird CR123A type batteries. The only batteries I have expereice with are AAs and AAAs :laughing:. What are some reputable brands that make this type or battery? Also what's mah? I'm guessing the higher the better? :thinking:

If I could get insight into what to look for and what brands to stay away from, that would be great. Thanks guys.

And yes, this will be my first real flash light if you couldn't tell.

 

[DM51]

Welcome to CPF, Rasto36620.

We have a separate sub-forum for battery questions, so I'll move your thread there.

 

[Marduke]

I'll give you a head start on your question:
http://www.google.com/search?q=best+batteries+for+p3d&sitesearch=candlepowerforums.com

 

[StarHalo]

You should stick to name-brand cells, like Duracell, Energizer, and Panasonic/Surefire. This is very important with 123 batteries since all the "incidents" we've had happen to them have been attributed to cheap no-name cells.

If you look around all the reputable online flashlight shops, you should be able to get quality 123s for less than $2 each. You can also try your local Best Buy as they occasionally have them in stock at 2 for $3.

 

[coppertrail]

Stick with name brands . . .

Just to back up the name brand suggestion. I purchased 12 Titanium CR123A cells 2 years ago. They've been in refrigerated storage in a Pelican 1010 case.

Out of the 12, I used 1 and gave 2 away, thinking they would be good for 4-5 years. Well, I was wrong. Based on the results of a ZTS tester, I threw all 9 our, none registering higher than 20%.

I will be sticking with name brand cells from now on.

On the other hand, I pulled out 8 Energizer Lithium AA cells that have been in the fridge for 2 years. Those all registered full on the ZTS. I'll most likely go with Duracell Ultra or Energizer CR123A primaries from now on, although I've read there are other reputable brands.

 

[45/70]

I'll back up staying with name brand cells as well, however, while I don't have any first hand experience with this, I do remember reading in these forums somewhere, about primary 123 cells that sat for a long time. Something settles out in the electrolyte, sorry, I don't remember exactly. Anyway, somebody tested some cells on a ZTS and they came up with something like 20%. They then put them in a light and used them for a minute or two, then retested with the ZTS. They then showed 100%. The theory was that using them a bit mixed up the electrolyte.

coppertrail, you may try this. maybe it won't show any improvement, but it's worth a try. Also, remember that L91's are a different chemistry than 123's.

Dave

 

[Mr Happy]

Anyway, somebody tested some cells on a ZTS and they came up with something like 20%. They then put them in a light and used them for a minute or two, then retested with the ZTS. They then showed 100%. The theory was that using them a bit mixed up the electrolyte.

coppertrail, you may try this. maybe it won't show any improvement, but it's worth a try. Also, remember that L91's are a different chemistry than 123's.

It is true. CR123A's can sometimes "go to sleep" in storage, and need a bit of a jolt to wake them up again. Not every dead CR123A will wake up, but some will. You have to run them for a few minutes on something that provides a reasonably heavy current draw and see what happens.

I have also read that when using the ZTS tester, it is not sufficient to take just one reading and stop. With CR123A's you have to keep taking readings repeatedly until the reading stops changing. It is said you should not trust the reading unless three successive tests give the same answer.

 

[coppertrail]

I tested each cell 5 times per ZTS, then repeated the same test the next daynext day. I will keep the bit about running them in a light for a few minutes before testing them after they've been in storage.

That aside, I'm still going with name brands from now on.

 

[DM51]

It's called passivation. A protective layer forms on the lithium anode when it's not in use. It helps minimize self-discharge and gives lithium primary cells the long storage life they have. However the cell may need "waking up" with a reasonably heavy load, as 45/70 and Mr Happy have said.

 

[coppertrail]

Li-Ion dead?

Along these lines, I didn't want to start a new thread on this.

I was going through my Li-Ion stock over the weekend. I found one Ultrafire 14500 (protected) and one Ultrafire 10440 AAA (non-protected).

Both cells test out at 0.00 on the DMM and the charger does not recognize them (charge light does not turn from green to red on the WF-139)

Is there any way to "jump start" these, or are they ready for the re-cycle bin.

The 10440 cells was purchase a little less than 2 years ago. I purchased 4, stored them in the fridge since I received them, and pulled them out over the weekend. In fact, they were still shrink wrapped in pairs of 2. The other 3 DMMd at 3.81V, the one at 0.00V.

The 14500 may have been used for a brief period, but I remember putting it into storage around 3.7V about 6 mo. ago.

 

[DM51]

Re: Li-Ion dead?

This is a different problem, as these are Li-Ion cells, not Li primaries.

Throw out the 0.0V unprotected 10440 - don't even think about trying to recharge it. The others testing at 3.8V are OK.

The protected 14500 has a different issue. Put it into a charger briefly, and see whether this resets the protection circuit. Check the voltage - if it has woken up it will be >2.75V, and you can then recharge it normally.

 

[coppertrail]

Thanks DM - When you say "briefly", how long should I give it? I put it in the WF-139 for about 10 min. last night and the status light never changed from green to red (indicating it was charging).

Thanks

 

[DM51]

A minute or 2 should do it. If you did it for 10 mins and the protection circuit still hasn't reset, that indicates it must have self-discharged way below the low-voltage cut-out.

There are several problems when a Li-Ion cell gets very low. One is that leaving the cell at a low voltage for an extended period causes permanent damage. The second and more important is that recharging becomes very problematic. You'd need to start off with a slow charge rate of ~0.1C, i.e. ~75mA, which you probably won't be able to do unless you have a hobby charger. There would be no guarantee of success, either. The cell is likely to be quite badly damaged, so if it was mine, I'd chuck it out.

 

[coppertrail]

I figured it's gone. I do not own an advanced charger/analyzer, so it's going to be chucked.

Anyone know of any major retailers that accept li-ion cells for re-cycling? I thought I'd once heard that Wal-Mart did.

 

[DM51]

I'm not the best person to advise on recycling. Have you tried looking on CPF Green?

 

[mdocod]

In my experience, the WF-139 will not always trip a circuit back on, it's weird... instal the cell in the charger and unplug the charger, then plug it back in a few seconds later and see if it doesn't trip the circuit and start charging.

 

[coppertrail]

Thanks for the suggestion, I tried it 4 times and still nothing.