Battery Space's Li-Ion Protection PCB

[wptski]

Battery Space\'s Li-Ion Protection PCB

Anybody ever build a pack using one of Battery Space's Li-Ion Protection PCB? The specs list a LVC of 2.0V +/-.08V per cell which is too low! The specs on their Li-Ion bare cells list a LVC of 3.0V to use. To be further confusing their three cell pack with their protection PCB lists a LVC of 9V. Talk about contradicting themselves back and forth!

 

[sunbeam]

Re: Battery Space\'s Li-Ion Protection PCB

I have read many post in their forum and they reaply that they have set values at a larger parametrers to accomplish better use of the batteries.
Maybe during drain the voltage can go down and so below the 3V even if the battery is not empty. Is it possible?

We could write something in their forum...

Francesco

 

[wptski]

Re: Battery Space\'s Li-Ion Protection PCB

[ QUOTE ]
sunbeam said:
I have read many post in their forum and they reaply that they have set values at a larger parametrers to accomplish better use of the batteries.
Maybe during drain the voltage can go down and so below the 3V even if the battery is not empty. Is it possible?

We could write something in their forum...

Francesco

[/ QUOTE ]
I emailed these questions to them yesterday, no answer yet. I haven't looked at their forum yet.

You would surely get longer runtime but you "might" be destroying the cells too! I had dramatic capacity lose using Li-Ion cells and it's not from overcharging.

I took a CGR18650 Li-Ion cell from a computer power pack and repeatedly discharge it to 2.4V at 1A with a Computer Battery Analyzer form West Mountain Radio. It didn't lose any capacity during the testing. The cell sat in this discharge state for two weeks when I charged and tested it when I got a new charger. It had lost about 1/3 of its capacity. It wasn't the charger either as I repeated the test with my other charger. The key here seems to be, left in a discharged/damaged state.

 

[SilverFox]

Re: Battery Space\'s Li-Ion Protection PCB

Hello Bill,

Check the specs on their web page again. They look better now.

Tom

 

[wquiles]

Re: Battery Space\'s Li-Ion Protection PCB

I recently built a protected pack of 2 parallel/series 17670 batteries (2 in series and two of these in parallel) using their PCB used for two cells.

I am probably over the spec for the circuit (running batteries in parallel with twice the current) but at least during charging the protection circuit worked fine. I am currently using the pack and have not yet run a drain test to see at what voltage the circuit stops the discharge but I will likely try this weekend.

Since I am running in parallel and driving a Kripton KR112 from Radio Shack (.675 amps - beautiful white driven at a little over 8 volts fresh from the charger) it will probably run for a LONG time!.

Will

 

[wptski]

Re: Battery Space\'s Li-Ion Protection PCB

[ QUOTE ]
SilverFox said:
Hello Bill,

Check the specs on their web page again. They look better now.

Tom

[/ QUOTE ]
Tom:

What are you looking at? No change at all! Look at the 10.8V protection circuit(PCB).

 

[Sway]

Re: Battery Space\'s Li-Ion Protection PCB

I don't see a change either in the 1 and 2 cell PCB, Tom what page are you looking at?

I have a 2x18650 pack using the BatterySpace PCB I will put it on the Triton some time this weekend and do a discharge run. At what point should I pull the plug if the PCB doesn't stop the run, is 5.4V too low that's 2.7V per cell.

Later
kelly

 

[wptski]

Re: Battery Space\'s Li-Ion Protection PCB

[ QUOTE ]
Sway said:
I don't see a change either in the 1 and 2 cell PCB, Tom what page are you looking at?

I have a 2x18650 pack using the BatterySpace PCB I will put it on the Triton some time this weekend and do a discharge run. At what point should I pull the plug if the PCB doesn't stop the run, is 5.4V too low that's 2.7V per cell.

Later
kelly

[/ QUOTE ]
Kelly:

Poor Tom, he's always on the wrong page! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif

If you look at their battery specs, it states 3V per cell. The RC guys says 3V per cell too!

I've been fiddling with Li-Ion cells that have had dramatic capacity lose and I'm not 100% for sure but one of the key factors in capacity lose due to LVC is how long they are allowed to sit in that discharged state. I'm not sure about the actual LVC value. The RC crowd seem to think it's the lowest point at which the cell still recovers to its nominal voltage or 3.6V in our case.

Look at the SureFire U2 with built in LVC. I have one but never hit that point but its been said to be just above 3.0V.

EDIT: The Triton won't let you set a value below 3.0V per cell.

 

[Sway]

Re: Battery Space\'s Li-Ion Protection PCB

[ QUOTE ]
wptski said:

EDIT: The Triton won't let you set a value below 3.0V per cell.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill,

I was going to try and get around that using a NiMH discharge cycle or that was my idea anyway, never tried it so I don't know if it will work /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Isn't 2.8V the very max they recommend I always through the flyers used 3V as a safety margin so they still had time to land?

Guess I'm as confused as Tom now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif

Later
Kelly

 

[wptski]

Re: Battery Space\'s Li-Ion Protection PCB

[ QUOTE ]
Sway said:
[ QUOTE ]
wptski said:

EDIT: The Triton won't let you set a value below 3.0V per cell.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill,

I was going to try and get around that using a NiMH discharge cycle or that was my idea anyway, never tried it so I don't know if it will work /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Isn't 2.8V the very max they recommend I always through the flyers used 3V as a safety margin so they still had time to land?

Guess I'm as confused as Tom now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif

Later
Kelly

[/ QUOTE ]
Kelly:

Yep, 2.8V is better than 2.4V. The RC battery manufactures used to say 2.9V now their up to 3.0V. I was going to suggest using Ni-MH setting but no matter what cell count of LVC, it doesn't work out close enough, it's either too low or too high!

Confused, join the group! BATTERY HEADS R US!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[SilverFox]

Re: Battery Space\'s Li-Ion Protection PCB

Hello Bill,

I don't know what page you guys are on, but I got them to change this one...

It listed the over discharge protection at 2.0 volts.

Tom

 

[wptski]

Re: Battery Space\'s Li-Ion Protection PCB

[ QUOTE ]
SilverFox said:
Hello Bill,

I don't know what page you guys are on, but I got them to change this one...

It listed the over discharge protection at 2.0 volts.

Tom

[/ QUOTE ]
Tom:

Look here: PCB.

They changed it but does that mean the specs were wrong? The URL above is for the three cell version but the four cell has the same 2.0V LVC too!

 

[SilverFox]

Re: Battery Space\'s Li-Ion Protection PCB

Hello Bill,

After finding several other problems with their web pages and calling them on it, I think their product is OK. They just can't list it properly.

I am upset that they don't respond in their forum or to emails.

Tom

 

[andrewwynn]

Re: Battery Space\'s Li-Ion Protection PCB

i think that protection ckt is only like $5.. what's to loose to buy one for testing? I was planning to get one fairly soon.. they have ludicrously low prices on 14500 cells and i'm thinking of getting some big cells for testing so i don't have to torture my poor 10430s..

keep us posted if you find out more.

-awr

 

[wptski]

Re: Battery Space\'s Li-Ion Protection PCB

[ QUOTE ]
andrewwynn said:
i think that protection ckt is only like $5.. what's to loose to buy one for testing? I was planning to get one fairly soon.. they have ludicrously low prices on 14500 cells and i'm thinking of getting some big cells for testing so i don't have to torture my poor 10430s..

keep us posted if you find out more.

-awr

[/ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't want the single cell version. I'm interested in the three cell circuit or the assembled 2000mAh pack with PCB. The specs on those remain the same.

 

[wptski]

Re: Battery Space\'s Li-Ion Protection PCB

[ QUOTE ]
SilverFox said:
Hello Bill,

After finding several other problems with their web pages and calling them on it, I think their product is OK. They just can't list it properly.

I am upset that they don't respond in their forum or to emails.

Tom

[/ QUOTE ]
Tom:

I got one better than that! I ordered a product and they state after three business, contact them for tracking info. I emailed once, no answer, I post in their forum and it gets deleted! I wasn't sure if it got deleted or I messed up, so I posted again and it got deleted for sure. I got PM'd, they said that they answer all emails and the forum isn't the place to *****. Well, if you don't answer emails, what do you do? I told them that they didn't reply to my two emails, here's my order number. Got my tracking number and I'm now awaiting USPS today as I missed them yesterday but they left "no" notice! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[Sway]

Re: Battery Space\'s Li-Ion Protection PCB

Ok, I found away around the Triton by using the Pb discharge it will take the 8 volts of a 2x18650 pack and let you discharge it down to 5.4V. I set it up for 2A discharge, it took right at 45 minutes for the Triton to read 4.81V and my DMM was reading 4.85V so I pulled the plug on the run that's as far as I care to go with these cells.

After a 15 minute rest the pack is back up to 7.46 volts, does anybody know where we can find a PCB that will shut the pack down at 6 volts?

Later
Kelly

 

[wptski]

Re: Battery Space\'s Li-Ion Protection PCB

[ QUOTE ]
Sway said:
Ok, I found away around the Triton by using the Pb discharge it will take the 8 volts of a 2x18650 pack and let you discharge it down to 5.4V. I set it up for 2A discharge, it took right at 45 minutes for the Triton to read 4.81V and my DMM was reading 4.85V so I pulled the plug on the run that's as far as I care to go with these cells.

After a 15 minute rest the pack is back up to 7.46 volts, does anybody know where we can find a PCB that will shut the pack down at 6 volts?

Later
Kelly

[/ QUOTE ]
Kelly:

So that circuit "may" have shut off at 4.8V or 2.4V per cell but you stopped it and I don't blame you! No use to destroy your cells! Thanks for the test. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Sway]

Re: Battery Space\'s Li-Ion Protection PCB

[ QUOTE ]
wptski said:
Kelly:

So that circuit "may" have shut off at 4.8V or 2.4V per cell but you stopped it and I don't blame you! No use to destroy your cells! Thanks for the test. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill,

It may have shut down at 2.4V per cell and that thought is lingering, but I'm not sure which meter is the closets to being correct I think my DMM reads about .04 volts high, it reads the same way when I use it with the LM631 light meter.

Like you said "No use to destroy your cells" I only have one light using the BatterySpace protection circuit in a 2C Mag with an nFlex driving a TXOK LED this combination alone would turn it's self off between 4.61 to 4.85 volts the only thing the PCB provides protection from is over current form shorting out or over charging and I trust the Triton for the latter.

My other two Li-Ion lights use bare cells with low voltage LED warning indicator or "Idiot Light" but they work and either turn off or flash at the specified voltage and their easier to build into LED Mag mods than the protection circuit.

I sure hope BS gets with the program and answers our questions instead of contradicting their self.

Later
Kelly

 

[smitty244]

Re: Battery Space\'s Li-Ion Protection PCB

Ok, so if these PCB Protection circuits cut off too late, does anybody have any other sources (or ways to build your own)? I'd probably stop as soon as it got dim anyway but I don't want to take the chance of killing my batteries /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif