Beam Comparison between McFlood w/ 5W and L4?

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lambo

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Dec 21, 2003
Messages
139
I'm about to have an Arc LS modded with a 5W emitter, and I need to choose an optic. With the Beamshot Database on hiatus and a lot of previous beamshots showing up only as the dreaded red X now, finding examples -- especially comparisons -- is turning out to be more difficult than I thought it would be. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

Could anyone describe for me what the beam of a McFlood reflector looks like with a 5-watt emitter? Does it have any detectable hotspot at all, or is it just an even flood? Is there any kind of donut hole, as there is with some L4's? Is the angle of the beam wider or narrower than the L4's reflector?

I realize that there are going to be few people with 5-watters and McFloods, fewer who also have an L4, and fewer still who have the capability of taking beamshots. But if anyone could do a comparison shot, that would sure be helpful. A verbal description will probably be more than adequate, however.

Thanks for any assistance.
 
bumpit.gif


free bump for ya!
and may thy quest be succesful /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
bernhard
 
Thanks, Bernhard! Actually, you were one of the people I thought might have useful information for me here. If you don't, I suspect nobody does. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I'll keep this bumped up for another day and then probably break down and PM McGizmo -- though one hesitates to trouble The Master.
 
lambo, I would be interested in such a light, too.
I guess it would have a nice flood with medium throw.
Do you have any plans already who could do such a mod and for what price ?

Has this been done before ?
Would it be simply a replacement of the LS or would the electronics have to be modified ?
Would the cooling of the ARC be sufficient for longtime run ?
 
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hm ... a 5W in a PR has a nice medium flood ... a bit tighter and further throwing than the L4 ... I am really not sure how a McFlood will do here.
And the Master ... Don ... he is diving at Maui ... is away /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif
sorry ... no help from me here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
bernhard
 
Bernhard,

Thanks for the tip on Don's whereabouts. He certainly deserves a bit of time in paradise. I think 5W's in McFloods are rare enough that I'm going to have to wait for him for a definitive answer. Of course, I'm sure Jets22 will be able to tell me quite a bit the next time I talk to him, too, but I thought it'd be easier on him if I could tell him exactly what I wanted.


AbsoLite,

Yes, this has been done before, but apparently pretty rarely. Jets22 will be doing my mod, I suggest you do a search on his name to see some of his lights, which, apart from their functionality, are true works of art. I would expect to pay upwards of $150 for such a mod, but the problem at the moment is finding a good 5W emitter. I posted a request for one on B/S/T, and a good samaritan came to my rescue in a couple of days, but there's usually a few people on B/S/T looking for them, and it can be a long and frustrating -- even fruitless -- wait.

I honestly don't know if a 5-watter will work with the stock Arc LS circuit. You'd obviously have to change the resistance to get more current to the emitter, but I don't know if even that would work. Jets22 does in fact use an entirely different circuit. I think spec for a 5W is around 700 mA, and the Arc LS body can reportedly get plenty hot at that current; such a mod is really only for intermittent use, and would probably have a total continuous runtime (assuming the light could take the heat) of something a bit over half an hour.

Of course, you could run a 5W at a lower current for less heat and longer runtime -- which might make a modded stock Arc LS circuit more likely to work, too -- but I don't know if it's worth it. I don't know how bright a 5W would be at a below-spec current, but Luxeons are supposed to be more efficient if underdriven. I suspect you'd get comparable performance from a 3W, however, which could probably be driven harder and longer with less heat. And good 3-watters seem to be easier to find now than good 5-watters.

Please take all this with a very large grain of salt, however. I'm a true neophyte when it comes to the finer points of this stuff, and I could be wrong about every single statement in those last two paragraphs. I'd recommend you do plenty of research on mods and then talk to some modders -- Jets22, TheFire, LitFuse, and CM (and probably some others I'm forgetting) are the resident experts on Arc LS mods. They'll be able to walk you through what would best suit your needs for balancing brightness, beam, heat, and runtime.

I got started on this quest when a mod I had done to an Arc AAA turned out to be so amazingly good that it pretty much rendered my LSH-S obsolete. I therefore knew I wanted to turn the LSH into a really impressive light, runtime be damned. One of Jets22's lights featured on Bernhard's terrific thread entitled Gargantuan Real Life Shootout really caught my fancy, so I asked Jets22 to make me one similar to it. (Bernhard's thread is a very good place to start, by the way. He seems to have at least one of everything /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif, so that thread should start you drooling while at the same time giving you a crash course in available mods. And it's got one of the most instructive collections of beamshots you'll see anywhere. Thanks again, Bernhard. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif)

Good luck. Let me know if I can help, but as I'm sure you can tell, you'll get a much better quality of help from the people mentioned above.
 
lambo, thank you very much for your information. I appreciate the time you took to answer my questions /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I just recently got interested in looking closer to modded or custom made lights, because currently none of the major manufacturers seems to have the light I'm looking for /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Maybe this is OT in this particular thread, but let me explain shortly what my thoughts were.
I have an ARC LSL-S, and what I like about this light is that is has a good ratio between throw and flood. I know, many are looking for a far throwing light, but for my purpose (close to medium use), there should be no very big difference between the brightness of the hotspot and the sidespill.
So why not keep the ARC and be happy ? One reason is that I must have catched some kind of virus called flashaholism around here, that keeps me from being satisfied with that what I have /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The second is, that my ARC lacks some points that other lights have, but unfortunately each light I came across does have only a few, but not all the things I would like to see with my "perfect light".
The ARC4 has different brightness levels - very good, but not as good a flood as I wished, and no lanyard hole
The Surefire L4 has flood and throw, but no brightness levels and too big for my needs.
The TW4 would almost be perfect, but no brightness levels and no lanyard hole (AFAIK).
The VIP is (relatively) small, has different brightness levels, a lanyard hole, almost perfect for me, but IMHO has less sidespill than I want.
The upcoming firefly would have sidespill (with NX05), right size, lanyard hole (I think), but no adjustable brightness levels.
So currently I'm lost .. sitting on my money (not really), and it seems no light does it for me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Maybe I have overlooked the right one ?
Or is a mod the only choice right now ?
I looked at many reviews and beamshot comparisons, but currenty I'm not quite familiar with all those names like BB700 and NX05 etc. I definitely need more reading..
Oh,I forgot the runtime, it should have about 1,5 hours with the high setting.
Is this light I'm thinking of at least possible or are my expectations to high ?
 
I can not speak for 5w, but with a Lux III it has a large central flood area and a less bright corona. Spread of both is quite large. At 1 foot from the wall the central flood is a bit over 6 inches and the outer corona is a bit over 1 foot [roughly].

I'm sure the 5w will have different characteristics.
 
mclux-750r2hmcflood.jpg


this is a shot of a LD 1W LS driven at 400mA with a McFlood (an original McLux TK unit) on the right and a beadblasted McFlood with an R2H HD at 700mA on the right. It has a gorgeous mother of all floodbeams.
But the Master (Don) told me the beadblasting would be necessary to use a McFlood with a HD to avoid the artifacts ... and you'll loose a little output on this road.

bernhard
 
Glad to see there's some life in the old thread yet. I'm waiting right here with IsaacHayes for a 5W McFlood beamshot. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


FlashlightOCD, thanks for the input. I did manage to find some old threads where McGizmo talked about how much he liked the McFlood with a 5W, but they seem to have been written before the L4 came out, and there are no beamshots. See here and here, if anyone is interested. (Note than the beamshots at the beginning of the latter thread are with an NX-05 and an acrylic half-ball lens, and are not indicative of the McFlood beam with 5W, a beamshot of which I still can't seem to find anywhere; but the text itself is very reassuring.) Another old thread which I can't seem to find right now mentions that a high-dome luxeon in a McFlood does have something of a spot, and the 5-watters are high-domes. Which only makes a comparative beamshot more desirable.


AbsoLite, I was pretty much in the same boat, since, like you, I find flood to be more useful than throw. I think your expectations may be a little high, but the compromises between brightness, runtime, and size that are available now are surprisingly good, and with people like Mr. Bulk and McGizmo and his team around, things are only going to get better.

I'm also on the VIP list (I think I replied to one of your posts there once), and I think that's probably your most promising solution, since Mr. Bulk says the optics are going to be quite easy to swap out. Once you have a McFlood installed, it can stay there, and voila!, a three level flood light that's very bright on its highest level.

A close second would be the Arc4+ with the SureFire F04 beamshaper, which is reported to fit the Arc4+ perfectly. I got one of these accessories today from LPS Tactical (see about a quarter of the way down the page) for $11.00 including shipping -- though I don't suppose that's much help to you in Germany. I understand that these are very efficient at transmitting light, something like 85 to 90%, I think I've read, and it is impressive in practice to see how much of the original light manages to get through it. When Peter Gransee comes out with the new standing tailcap, which will have a lanyard hole, that might be a good solution to your problem, and with very long runtimes at the levels you'd probably use most.

(What follows is nothing more than my own opinion, but I'd avoid the Arc4+ seconds if brightness is paramount to you, since some of them are seconds because the brightness wasn't there to qualify them as firsts. I had a second, but on level two it was only as bright as my LSH-S. The firsts, on the other hand, are said to produce 787,000 mcd at level one (Mr. Bulk's measurement on the now-archived first VIP thread), while the VIP itself will produce just over 1,000,000 mcd on its highest level -- not all that much higher, and much of the difference could be attributable to the tighter Fraen beam of the VIP. I also found the lack of a lanyard attachment and head knurling on the Arc4+ to be definite drawbacks. The light was so small and slippery, it was like trying to illuminate something with a live fish; I was terrified to use the precious thing outdoors. I used some deerskin lace to rig up a finger loop like the one shown in neogoon's post on this thread, but that really shouldn't be necessary on an EDC light. Both drawbacks are about to be remedied soon, however. The new tailcap isn't more than a month or two off, and head knurling is supposed to become standard starting in mid-March, according to someone I spoke to at Arc.)

My solution to the inescapable brightness/size/runtime trade-off has been Jets22's 5W mod to the Arc LS. I intend to combine it with one of gadget_lover's Kroll switch mods for a second, lower level of light once I figure out what resistor will give me a useable second level. I'm not as concerned about runtime as you are, so a half hour will be fine with me. (I'll always have room somewhere on my person for a spare battery.) Brightness and size should be great, though.

For your purposes, I think the VIP with a McFlood would be close to perfect, and the Arc4+ with an F04 not too far behind. Of course, there are other considerations: lifetime warranty with the Arc, none with the VIP (though you're highly unlikely ever to need one); the F04 will add some bulk to the Arc while the VIP with McFlood will be integral; the F04 can be pulled off the Arc for a quick spot, while changing the optic in the VIP will take some unscrewing; the Arc4+ with F04 and new tailcap will run you about $225 shipped to Germany, while the VIP will be closer to $170; and only three light levels on the VIP versus 16 on the Arc.

Finally, I wouldn't entirely write off the SF L4. It's supposed to be surprisingly small, and I don't think there's a more impressive floodlight on the market in that size. (I should have one of those coming later this week -- you see you're not the only one who's contacted the flashaholism virus. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif) The brilliant gadget-lover is also working on a high-low mod for the L4, though I haven't been following his progress closely enough to know if he's there yet. But he will get there. Finally, if you can take a bit more bulk than the L4 and can wait a few months for its debut, the SF U2 will be sized between the L4 and L5 and will have six brightness levels on a 5W luxeon. Judging by the size of the head, though, it should have more throw and less flood than the L4.

I suspect in a year we'll have everything we want now as regards long runtime, incredible brightness, small size, and variable levels, but we'll still be hankering for something brighter, smaller, and longer running. Don't put off getting the VIP, Arc4+, etc., just because they're not yet perfect. As they say, "The perfect is the enemy of the good". Very good, in the case of these lights.
 
Thanks, Bernhard. That HD with a McFlood really is impressive, isn't it? There does appear to be a bit of a hotspot, and it's the relative sizes and intensities of the spots which I'm wondering about with the 5W and L4.

Are you sure you don't have a 5W with McFlood lying around somewhere? Have you checked the bottom of your sock-drawer? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

(By the way, what's a "riad"? I'm pretty good at deciphering typos, but I can't seem to get that one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif)
 
lambo,
I have a PM6 5W mod and the mcflood!
could you list your email , so that I can take a pic and send you at home! coz I donno why my compu at home can't login to CPF.....
 
Snake,

PM about to be sent.

Thanks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

(Now I'll have to find a way to get it posted here so I can satisfy some of the curiosity this thread has aroused.)
 
lambo ... typo corrected /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I can host the pic for you if you want ...
bernhard
 
Maybe you could get rid of that hot spot by filling the reflector in with clear acrylic or epoxy. That would leave the reflector operating, while neutralizing the optical effect of the high dome LED package. To see what I mean, try operating your Arc AAA under water (just put it in a bowl of water or in the sink or something). You get a beautiful, even flood beam, because the water has the same index of refraction as the LED lens, so it's like the lens isn't there and you just get the effect of the bare die.
 
Easiest way to get rid of the hotspot would be to sand down the McFlood with some fine grit sandpaper. This is what i use for mine, and you get an amazingly smooth pool of light, altho i think you lose some lumens.
 
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