What exactly are the benefits of taking an existing aluminum flashlight design and redoing the body in Titanium? How much of a premium would a CPF'er expect to pay for a Titanium version of a flashlight vs the regular aluminum one? Is there any real benefit or is this just a status symbol thing?
Benefits of a titanium version of an existing aluminum flashlight ?
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The main benefit is strength and rustproof. Normally titatium flashlight cost about 2-3 times the amount of aluminum. For instance, Jetbeam Jet-III pro's aluminum model is about $70 and they're releasing a titanium version for $200. I wouldn't say it's status symbol, it's just a matter of preference ... just like many of us don't buy polymer flashlights.
jzmtl
Flashlight Enthusiast
To me a titanium is only boutique for the exclusive crowd. A little more strength, yeah, but when's the last time your aluminum light got crushed? More rust proof than aluminum? Highly doubt it, especially compare to HA coated aluminum.
dmdrewitt
Flashlight Enthusiast
I'm no expert, but I do like Titanium.
Aluminuium won't rust. Correct. I guess only steel will rust, but Aluminium corrodes, which Titanium does not. HAIII also chips off, or sometime does not apply proplerly during the coating process. None of these problems with Titanium.
jzmtl,
I disagree. I would not consider myself part of an "exclusive crowd". As much as I like Al, nothing IMHO beats the weight and feel of Ti. It is more of a preference. Like some people like the feel of different knurling on their lights. If you can afford a Surefire light, Ti is well within reach. I saved many a penny to afford what I have in my collection. I use all of my lights. I have even given away some of my lights to friends and family when the collection got out of hand. You should pick up a Ti light. It may change your life/pocket book for the best/worse.
Aloha,
jag
Not sure if I would put it quite like jztml, but I think that is fair to say that with flashlights, just like most technologies, you get a diminishing return on your investment the more you add further refinements.
I personally rate and respect McGizmo lights. An AlPD-S will sell for $275ish on BST where as the Ti equivilent will sell for at least $550. Is the Ti version twice as good? I'd find that difficult to justify. Is the Ti version worth it I think so.
- Ti is heavier than Al but not as heavy as steel, I prefer a certain heft to my lights but not so much that they weigh me down as steel lights do.
- Scratches and gouges on bare Ti are not nearly as noticeable as on HAIII Al.
- I can't see many applications where I'm likley to crush an Al light, but a Ti light will resist compression far more than any Al light.
- Ti is far more resistant to corrosion if you use your light in a salt water or other corrosive envirionments.
my £0.01
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Well said Hodsta! Cheers!
Titatium is essentially element proof. But the point is moot
I agree that most of us, including myself, will probably never experience a crushed or rusted aluminum flashlight.
I think many of us CPFer, we choose our lights based on preference more than tangible benefits. A flashlight made from high-impact, non-incentive, durable polymer body from a reputable manufacturer excels aluminum body in many aspects. These function over form flashlights are very useful, but not very pretty.
Titatium is like everything else, either you love it or you don't. It's definitely not for everyone, and to most, it's not worth the premium.
I agree that most of us, including myself, will probably never experience a crushed or rusted aluminum flashlight.
I think many of us CPFer, we choose our lights based on preference more than tangible benefits. A flashlight made from high-impact, non-incentive, durable polymer body from a reputable manufacturer excels aluminum body in many aspects. These function over form flashlights are very useful, but not very pretty.
Titatium is like everything else, either you love it or you don't. It's definitely not for everyone, and to most, it's not worth the premium.
CPF bling. And not much else. Titanium is a poor conductor of heat, so it limits the performance of a flashlight.
You can kid yourself and think Titanium is a superior material for a flashlight, it simply is not when it comes to pure function. Aluminum is pretty corrosion resistant as well, as long as it's not in a galvanic corrosion configuration. So the superior corrosion resistance argument simply does not hold water.
Sure, titanium is stronger, but other parts will ultimately fail before, like the glass lens, perhaps the electronics and batteries. That and titanium is far heavier than aluminum. If you doubt the durability of an aluminum flashlight, check out the Ra Twisty abuse pics, if I had to take a flashlight to war, it would probably survive longer than any titanium wonder here.
That said, I love titanium. It's pretty, shiny, doesn't smell, and is preetty.
-Ed
You can kid yourself and think Titanium is a superior material for a flashlight, it simply is not when it comes to pure function. Aluminum is pretty corrosion resistant as well, as long as it's not in a galvanic corrosion configuration. So the superior corrosion resistance argument simply does not hold water.
Sure, titanium is stronger, but other parts will ultimately fail before, like the glass lens, perhaps the electronics and batteries. That and titanium is far heavier than aluminum. If you doubt the durability of an aluminum flashlight, check out the Ra Twisty abuse pics, if I had to take a flashlight to war, it would probably survive longer than any titanium wonder here.
That said, I love titanium. It's pretty, shiny, doesn't smell, and is preetty.
-Ed
dmdrewitt
Flashlight Enthusiast
dmdrewitt
Flashlight Enthusiast
Does Aluminum Rust?
Aluminum corrodes but it does not rust. Rust refers only to iron and steel corrosion.
Aluminum is actually very prone to corrosion. However, aluminum corrosion is aluminum oxide, a very hard material that actually protects the aluminum from further corrosion. Aluminum oxide corrosion also looks a lot more like aluminum, so it isn't as easy to notice as rusted iron.
http://www.theruststore.com/Does-Aluminum-Rust-W26C2.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust
Aluminum corrodes but it does not rust. Rust refers only to iron and steel corrosion.
Aluminum is actually very prone to corrosion. However, aluminum corrosion is aluminum oxide, a very hard material that actually protects the aluminum from further corrosion. Aluminum oxide corrosion also looks a lot more like aluminum, so it isn't as easy to notice as rusted iron.
http://www.theruststore.com/Does-Aluminum-Rust-W26C2.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust
kramer5150
Flashaholic
Titanium (pure) is not as good of a thermal & electrical conductor as Aluminum. On the other hand, Titanium is usually alloyed/blended with Aluminum... so I think to a small extent, it depends on the particular Ti-alloy blend. I don't think flashlights are typically "pure" Ti. (someone please correct me???)
Heres just one of many material property www pages, it lists pure Titanium towards the bottom.
http://www.engineersedge.com/properties_of_metals.htm
I for one would rather have a copper version of an Al torch than a Titanium one. IMHO some hotter running LED torches could benefit from copper bezels and body components. Some of the heatsink designs I have worked on benefited greatly from the use of machined copper as opposed to machined aluminum to cool SMT ASICS. Many ASICS have a similar thermal profile as LED emitters, they both can run warm-hot-cool-hot...etc... depending on the power consumed at the given time.
*edit* whoa... I didn't realize Solder was such a poor electrical conductor. You'd think, given its purpose and abundance of use that it would be better than that.
Heres just one of many material property www pages, it lists pure Titanium towards the bottom.
http://www.engineersedge.com/properties_of_metals.htm
I for one would rather have a copper version of an Al torch than a Titanium one. IMHO some hotter running LED torches could benefit from copper bezels and body components. Some of the heatsink designs I have worked on benefited greatly from the use of machined copper as opposed to machined aluminum to cool SMT ASICS. Many ASICS have a similar thermal profile as LED emitters, they both can run warm-hot-cool-hot...etc... depending on the power consumed at the given time.
*edit* whoa... I didn't realize Solder was such a poor electrical conductor. You'd think, given its purpose and abundance of use that it would be better than that.
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Sorry to quote myself but one more thing - Ti feels warm compared to Al and Steel when you are outdoors (for the same reason that it is not as conductive as Al and a poor choice for overdriven LEs). Now would I ever go into a shop and demand a "warm" flashlight and demand to pay twice as much?:thinking:
kramer5150
Flashaholic
so thats why my Ti watches feel better on my wrist.
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precisionworks
Flashaholic
Not a whole lot of Commercially Pure (ASTM B, Grades 1 2 3 & 4) Ti in use today. The vast majority is Alloy 6Al4V, aka 64Ti.
Aluminum is the material of choice for many high end lights (SureFire, etc.). In addition to light weight & ease of finishing, aluminum machines like butter - this translates into fast machine cycle times, tooling that lasts & lasts, and lower product cost.
Ti is more difficult to machine, and the material itself is expensive. But it makes a light that is beyond tough and pleasant to use. If you're already paying a buck and a half for a nice light, the Ti version doesn't seem that much higher:thumbsup:
precisionworks
Flashaholic
Not a whole lot of Commercially Pure (ASTM B, Grades 1 2 3 & 4) Ti in use today. The vast majority is Alloy 6Al4V, aka 64Ti.
Aluminum is the material of choice for many high end lights (SureFire, etc.). In addition to light weight & ease of finishing, aluminum machines like butter - this translates into fast machine cycle times, tooling that lasts & lasts, and lower product cost.
Ti is more difficult to machine, and the material itself is expensive. But it makes a light that is beyond tough and pleasant to use. If you're already paying a buck and a half for a nice light, the Ti version doesn't seem that much higher:thumbsup:
I won't get into my justifications for Ti over any other material because I don't need to convince myself of what they are and I am too biased to be believed by others. Plus I don't feel like joining in on another groundhog's day event. :nana:
I quoted the above though because on the face of it, this seems like a good point but the more I consider the situation the more I question the validity of this point. The heat generated by the light has to go somewhere and anything that impedes is dissipation causes buildup and back pressure all the way back to the source if I may use illustrative terms that are not the proper terms for the physics involved.
Ti does have much higher resistance to thermal flow than aluminum. However once the heat gets to the surface and perimeter of the light, it needs to go beyond or you have the temperature elevate. In a flashlight, this heat needs to leave either through the air or one's hand. What is the thermal resistance of the air or a hand compared to Ti? I believe it is significantly worse.
There are many things that limit the performance of a flashlight as well as tax the components within. I think it safe to state that Ti will tax a light more than Al will but as to the end performance and health of the light, I think one needs to consider many other possibly more significant factors. Is Ti inadequate in a role as a host for a LED light engine? Not to my knowledge or experience so far. Is it ideal in terms of thermal conductivity. No. Would I personally choose it over other materials with all things considered? Yes. Am I aware of any benefits in Ti? For me, most certainly.
In regards to thermodynamics, I consider myself rather blind. I don't suggest anyone follow me. On the other hand, I chose not to follow others blindly either. :nana: In the absence of clear understanding I rely on experience and I trust my experience over mere speculation.
I am the expert in my armchair but that doesn't qualify me for much.
