Best battery chemistry for cold temperatures

[odessit]

I have TK20 and L2D that will be left in a non-garaged cars in upstate NY. Temperature goes to -10F (-23C), sometimes hits -20F (-29C).

I did a search on this board and found the following thread:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=200591
Is the information contained in this thread is still curent/correct?

Energizer e2 lithium AA L91 -40°C to 60°C
Sanyo Eneloop AA - Discharge - 0 - 50 degC
Alk Energizer E91 AA -18°C to 55°C (0°F to 130°F)

Should I leave Eneloops & 2700 AA usage to warmer months and pick up e2 for the in-car flashlights?

 

[Marduke]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

For below 0F, Energizer L91's are the best (only) choice.

 

[StarHalo]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

The Energizer Lithiums not only survive extreme temperature differences best, but they also last longest when stored/not in use. Alkalines aren't known for storage longevity, and Eneloops' self-discharge rate climbs parallel to ambient temperatures. A lithium battery in ideal conditions will last 15 years; in alternating extreme conditions it will easily outlast the average length of ownership of a car..

 

[Marduke]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

One thing I should point out is that Eneloops will handle storage at that temperature just fine. But if you need to use the light at that temperature, you will get poor performance.

L91's are best all around because they can be used and stored year round, from very cold to very hot.

 

[ltiu]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

Best prices for Energizer e2 Lithium (aka L91) are at Sam's Club, followed by Fry's - go to their Camera section, not their Battery section, batteries (exact same brand and type and expiry dates) are cheaper at the Camera section and then followed by Walmart.

Don't buy from anywhere else as these are expensive (by my standards) everywhere else.

 

[odessit]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

Thanks for the answers!

 

[Eugene]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

I don't get the walmart recommendations for batteries all the time, around here they are the most expensive place to buy batteries (most expensive for groceries but thats another thread). Sams will be the cheapest, then all the decent stores, then walmart and radio shack.

I've found eneloops to be acceptable at low temperatures, though we don't have sustained below zero, usually just a few days at a time, they may be worth testing out and see how they work for you. As someone said the self discharge parallels temperature, hot temps in the summer they discharge faster but winter they slow down.

 

[odessit]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

Can somebody point me to the battery testing procedures? I may put some eneloops in a freezer for a while just to test them.

 

[ltiu]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

I don't get the walmart recommendations for batteries all the time, around here they are the most expensive place to buy batteries (most expensive for groceries but thats another thread). Sams will be the cheapest, then all the decent stores, then walmart and radio shack.

Depends where you are I guess. I find the most expensive Energizer e2 Lithium (L91) batteries are from groceries and CircuitCity.

Fry's Camera section's battery prices are pretty goor $12.99 for a pack of 8 Energizer e2 Lithiums, very close to Sam's Club prices by only 50 cents if you do the calculations.

 

[Marduke]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

Depends where you are I guess. I find the most expensive Energizer e2 Lithium (L91) batteries are from groceries and CircuitCity.

Fry's Camera section's battery prices are pretty goor $12.99 for a pack of 8 Energizer e2 Lithiums, very close to Sam's Club prices by only 50 cents if you do the calculations.

That's actually better than Sam's Club prices. $1.62 vs $1.67. Maybe the "50 cents" was a typo and should be "5 cents"?

 

[ltiu]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

That's actually better than Sam's Club prices. $1.62 vs $1.67. Maybe the "50 cents" was a typo and should be "5 cents"?

OK, you got me there.

The Fry's I am talking about is the one at:

http://shop2.frys.com/isp/southhouston.html

Go to their Camera section and look for batteries there.

Don't go to their Battery section, batteries at their Battery section are more expensive.

 

[Mr Happy]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

Can somebody point me to the battery testing procedures? I may put some eneloops in a freezer for a while just to test them.

Do not try to charge or discharge Eneloops below 0 C/32 F though. At those temperatures the gas recombination reactions may not work fast enough and the cell will not work properly. Possibly in extreme cases it might even vent.

 

[etc]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

cheapest L91 is on Ebay, about 1 frn /each

I wonder if CR2 lithium is also as good storage wise as L91

 

[Marduke]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

cheapest L91 is on Ebay, about 1 frn /each

I wonder if CR2 lithium is also as good storage wise as L91

The L91 chemistry (lithium iron disulfied) stores better than CR2/CR123 chemistry (lithium manganese dioxide)

 

[ltiu]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

cheapest L91 is on Ebay, about 1 frn /each

Yes, eBay will always have the best prices, watch out for the expiry dates though. Some L91 being sold on eBay are old.

 

[etc]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

Mine are mostly 2012 or so.

 

[bob_ninja]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

NiMH won't really work below freezing, or will operate poorly.

Last winter I was using a B&D VPX mini-saw, around -10C (give or take)
It actually seemed to work very well, not much power loss.
So I would assume that the VPX light would work just fine (saw uses much more current).

So I would go with Lithium, rechargeable or not is your choice.

 

[HarryN]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

Can somebody point me to the battery testing procedures? I may put some eneloops in a freezer for a while just to test them.

That is not really cold enough for a winter test. Most freezers are set for approx 0 F if that.

You could get some realistic results using dry ice in a cooler. Just wrap the dry ice in news paper first - can get down to about -20 F without too much trouble.

 

[HarryN]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

accidental double post

 

[Eugene]

Re: AA battery for cold winters (up to -20F) in a car

NiMH won't really work below freezing, or will operate poorly.

Last winter I was using a B&D VPX mini-saw, around -10C (give or take)
It actually seemed to work very well, not much power loss.
So I would assume that the VPX light would work just fine (saw uses much more current).

So I would go with Lithium, rechargeable or not is your choice.

B&D is the key here, remember B&D are targeting consumer grade tools so the quality of the batteries they use is pretty low end so you can't say all NiMH's behave as them. Its like saying all NiMH's self discharge fast because Energizer 2500's do.