Phaserburn
Flashlight Enthusiast
I intend to use a SL-35X LA in either one, so which is built better? Any comments would be appreciated. How is the switch on the SL?
Better body construction: SL-20X or Magcharger?
- Thread starter Phaserburn
- Start date
bwaites
Flashlight Enthusiast
In my opinion, the Magcharger is built better, and offers the opportunity to make a few more mods.
Bill
Bill
Phaserburn
Flashlight Enthusiast
What is built better about the MC? Details, please?
OK, I just spent some time going through an SL-20X, 35X, and three Magchargers.
The Streamlights have a aluminum tube body with a couple large plastic inserts that slide into the front. They carry a standard pushbutton swtich, charging contacts, and a PCB with some stuff on it. Everything is connected with wires.
The Magcharger has an aluminum tube battery compartment that screws onto the midsection. The midsection is a turned aluminum round with the charging contacts slipped on with some insulators and a diode held in by a spring. That thing threads into the head portion. The head is _heavy_ machined aluminum that's hollow down the center. In the center is a stamped metal tube that carries the bulb holder and swtich. All that stuff fits together with lots of springs and parts, with no tools. All connections are made by spring or machined metal threads.
I know it's kind of hard to picture this. In the MC there really isn't anything to break or fall apart in normal use--sort of build like a camera lens or rife. In the SL I can picture wires and plastic bits coming apart with enough whacks. The SL is a fine design but would cost 1/3 what the Mag does if they were made by the same company.
The Streamlights have a aluminum tube body with a couple large plastic inserts that slide into the front. They carry a standard pushbutton swtich, charging contacts, and a PCB with some stuff on it. Everything is connected with wires.
The Magcharger has an aluminum tube battery compartment that screws onto the midsection. The midsection is a turned aluminum round with the charging contacts slipped on with some insulators and a diode held in by a spring. That thing threads into the head portion. The head is _heavy_ machined aluminum that's hollow down the center. In the center is a stamped metal tube that carries the bulb holder and swtich. All that stuff fits together with lots of springs and parts, with no tools. All connections are made by spring or machined metal threads.
I know it's kind of hard to picture this. In the MC there really isn't anything to break or fall apart in normal use--sort of build like a camera lens or rife. In the SL I can picture wires and plastic bits coming apart with enough whacks. The SL is a fine design but would cost 1/3 what the Mag does if they were made by the same company.
bwaites
Flashlight Enthusiast
Thank you Abtomat a very good description!
I actually was a little disappointed in the quality of the SL20.
I think that is good enough that I'll leave it, except to add that the Mag has a mineral glass lens to the polycarbonate/lexan lens of the Streamlight.
Bill
I actually was a little disappointed in the quality of the SL20.
I think that is good enough that I'll leave it, except to add that the Mag has a mineral glass lens to the polycarbonate/lexan lens of the Streamlight.
Bill
Mike 161
Newly Enlightened
You may want to consider the SL series is user serviceable. You can purchase switches (and lamps) and replace as needed, without sending the light back to the factory. With the MC, if the switch goes out, it has to be sent back for repairs (unless you have the know-how and tools to do it yourself). I find the SL switch easier to find when picking the light up (especially when wearing gloves). I also find the pre-focused SL beam to be better
suited for my uses.
Mike
suited for my uses.
Mike
bwaites
Flashlight Enthusiast
Though the question was "better body construction" Mike 161 makes some good points.
Though I find the MC easy to work on, and that parts are available online if you look, the prefocused Streamlight lamp assemblies, especially the SL35 assembly, do look great!
Bill
Though I find the MC easy to work on, and that parts are available online if you look, the prefocused Streamlight lamp assemblies, especially the SL35 assembly, do look great!
Bill
Phaserburn
Flashlight Enthusiast
Seems the 35X LA is the brightest of the stock options for the 20X or MC and has no heat related issues (MC bulb pedestal on long WA burns).
bwaites
Flashlight Enthusiast
With the 1160, thats a minor problem.
I don't think anyone has reported a failure, just a little cosmetic damage.
Bill
I don't think anyone has reported a failure, just a little cosmetic damage.
Bill
Phaserburn
Flashlight Enthusiast
Actually, I remember reading a few reports of fairly extensive damage. I don't like what I'm seeing in the MC/1160 combo. Great performance, but I believe it to be inherantly damaging to the MC. If you're going to be using this as a duty light or on a daily basis for over 30 mins a shot, I don't think this will work for the long haul. Any have this kind of usage with more input? I've seen some damage in my own MC, and it's enough to make me not want to press the issue.
bwaites
Flashlight Enthusiast
I've got 20 hours or more on one of mine, Ginseng has more hours than that I would guess, but even with the cosmetic damage, I don't think there have been any failures. I have one with Ginsengs Mica heat shields with probably 10 hours and NO visible damage, and one with 20 without them and the cosmetic damage only.
If your really worried, then using a ring potted 1160, a Carley orange peel, and modifying the Magcharger to take to wire leads to the pins on the Carley would perhaps be the ideal. (See js's thread in Mod B/S/T) I've done this with a SL20 and it works great! Brighter than the SL35 and you can adjust how tight you want the focus.
Bill
If your really worried, then using a ring potted 1160, a Carley orange peel, and modifying the Magcharger to take to wire leads to the pins on the Carley would perhaps be the ideal. (See js's thread in Mod B/S/T) I've done this with a SL20 and it works great! Brighter than the SL35 and you can adjust how tight you want the focus.
Bill
Mike's right about the swtiches, Mags are no good if you're wearing gloves. The MC glass lens is a nice touch. I melted the lexan in my SL-35X the other day.
Phaserburn
Flashlight Enthusiast
bwaites, you've got 20 hours on yours, but did you do 30+ minute burns most of the time? My MC is still totally functional and in good shape, and I too use the mica shields. Still, I don't like the direction it's going, and it makes me antsy.
avusblue
Enlightened
Phaserburn
Flashlight Enthusiast
bwaites
Flashlight Enthusiast
I have probably 15+ 30+ minute burns, I've broken in lots of cell packs to get there!
Bill
Bill
udaman
Banned
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2004
- Messages
- 381
[ QUOTE ]
Phaserburn said:
Seems the 35X LA is the brightest of the stock options for the 20X or MC and has no heat related issues (MC bulb pedestal on long WA burns).
[/ QUOTE ]
Just trying to figure out the intent of the thread topic? Does this refer to which is more durable, since they are both aluminum bodied; but one could still be more durable than the other, if you're trying to beat the crap out of someone, correct? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Hasn't there been some annoyance with looseness that the bi-pin holder in M*gChr has exhibited, compared to the SLX LA setup?
SLX 35 in a MC is not a "stock option". You're loosing M*g's trademark quick focusing cammed operation to get a smoother beam pattern. Not a trade off I would ever be willing to entertain. 6v/15w Ushio bulb is rated at 300 lumens. I believe the Ushio is of top tip fill, as opposed to anal (tail tip fill) of the WA bulbs. So there is less likelihood of heat damage. Still, if you have the 4ah 1/2D Aero NiMH battery packs, you're running slightly higher voltage over the stock MC batterypack, and if you don't mind more yellow light, you can get 6v/20w top tip fill bi-pin that runs spec'd at 450-480lumens. Not sure about the filament size, which can greatly affect beam pattern/tight spot focus. Then again, there's that 6v/30w 700+lumen bi-pin bulb that could really get things toasty. Throw in WA1185 with 3 EL 3AA-D adapters into the MC for similar heating effects.
Links to Mica heat-shield thread, more pics of MC bi-pin melting damage from anal WA1160 bulb, and Ginseng's comment from this thread: AeroNiMH 1/2d Battery/Pack GB: UPDATED
Start at post#617563, links appear near the end of the thread at post#693602
Phaserburn said:
Seems the 35X LA is the brightest of the stock options for the 20X or MC and has no heat related issues (MC bulb pedestal on long WA burns).
[/ QUOTE ]
Just trying to figure out the intent of the thread topic? Does this refer to which is more durable, since they are both aluminum bodied; but one could still be more durable than the other, if you're trying to beat the crap out of someone, correct? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Hasn't there been some annoyance with looseness that the bi-pin holder in M*gChr has exhibited, compared to the SLX LA setup?
SLX 35 in a MC is not a "stock option". You're loosing M*g's trademark quick focusing cammed operation to get a smoother beam pattern. Not a trade off I would ever be willing to entertain. 6v/15w Ushio bulb is rated at 300 lumens. I believe the Ushio is of top tip fill, as opposed to anal (tail tip fill) of the WA bulbs. So there is less likelihood of heat damage. Still, if you have the 4ah 1/2D Aero NiMH battery packs, you're running slightly higher voltage over the stock MC batterypack, and if you don't mind more yellow light, you can get 6v/20w top tip fill bi-pin that runs spec'd at 450-480lumens. Not sure about the filament size, which can greatly affect beam pattern/tight spot focus. Then again, there's that 6v/30w 700+lumen bi-pin bulb that could really get things toasty. Throw in WA1185 with 3 EL 3AA-D adapters into the MC for similar heating effects.
Links to Mica heat-shield thread, more pics of MC bi-pin melting damage from anal WA1160 bulb, and Ginseng's comment from this thread: AeroNiMH 1/2d Battery/Pack GB: UPDATED
Start at post#617563, links appear near the end of the thread at post#693602
Phaserburn
Flashlight Enthusiast
Actually, I was originally wondering which had better body construction: body, switch, threading, etc. The "why" of this is because of WA MC bulb damage.
I haven't heard of these Ushio bulbs before; where can I see more info?
I haven't heard of these Ushio bulbs before; where can I see more info?
Re: Better body construction: SL-20X or Magcharger
Post Deleted by Ginseng...on account of the fact that what I wrote was worthy of a jerk with attitude. Sorry Phase.
To your question: I think there are no "significant" differences between the two platforms if the SL-35X LA is the light engine. In fact, they're similiar right down to the charge rate of their tricklers.
So, this might come down to the key consideration: If you use your light heavily every day (let's say 50-60 minutes or about 3.1-3.7 Ah worth), neither system will give you a full recharge overnight. It will take a 4 Ah pack about 18-20 hours to fully recharge from that usage at a nominal trickle rate of 220mA. We know how to modify the MagCharger cradle circuit and it may be as simple as a resistor and wall wart swap to get 350-400mA for your charge rate. This would allow for an overnight full charge. Now, to further complicate matters, if you really, really like the SL body...then you could buy an SL-35X charge cradle which will give you a native 400mA rate.
I hope this response helps you make the best decision for your intended use and usage pattern.
Wilkey
Post Deleted by Ginseng...on account of the fact that what I wrote was worthy of a jerk with attitude. Sorry Phase.
To your question: I think there are no "significant" differences between the two platforms if the SL-35X LA is the light engine. In fact, they're similiar right down to the charge rate of their tricklers.
So, this might come down to the key consideration: If you use your light heavily every day (let's say 50-60 minutes or about 3.1-3.7 Ah worth), neither system will give you a full recharge overnight. It will take a 4 Ah pack about 18-20 hours to fully recharge from that usage at a nominal trickle rate of 220mA. We know how to modify the MagCharger cradle circuit and it may be as simple as a resistor and wall wart swap to get 350-400mA for your charge rate. This would allow for an overnight full charge. Now, to further complicate matters, if you really, really like the SL body...then you could buy an SL-35X charge cradle which will give you a native 400mA rate.
I hope this response helps you make the best decision for your intended use and usage pattern.
Wilkey
udaman
Banned
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2004
- Messages
- 381
Re: Better body construction: SL-20X or Magcharger
[ QUOTE ]
Ginseng said:
The MC has a more robust internal construction based on the materials and machining. The SL has easier access to the internals but is not as beefy. As for body, they are both aluminum tubes. Thread quality is comparable and a magnitude below SF or ARC. The light engine connection is completely different as you know to accommodate the fact that one focuses and the other does not.
The bulb damage you're worried about comes about from a condition which should by all rights be considered "abusive." Think about it, with the WA01160, you're pumping 2.7 times the spec power through the chain of components. Not 10% or 20% but 170%. If you don't want to subject your MC to this abuse, then don't run the WA01160.
You lose the capability to focus of course. The battery must be no less than the 3.5Ah UMP or 4Ah AeroNIMH pack. As for host durability, either one has the potential to last you for 5-10 years in this setup.
Unless I'm speaking from the standpoint of one that is brightness-jaded, is there more to this than I read? There are other details of course. If you wear gloves, the SL switch is better. If you want focus, then you must stay with the MC platform.
Beyond these straightforward options, there are a myriad of options. But your constraint of long runtime is a critical one. It means you will be using big batteries in a big body. There is no way around this in the incandescent arena.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hehe, now that Ginseng is busy with his PhD studies, we're on an almost level playing field ;-) Both js and Ginseng are going to slap me upside my head if they get the chance /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Actually, in consideration of his deity incandescent status, and I always /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif to wisdom/experience (age old, ancient fading Asian customs), I was hoping to engage Ginseng to take his limited free time and do some more comparison tests. Anyone like to have Ginseng do some comparison tests sign up here now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. bwaites has one of Ginseng's now 'useless' test mules (not to be confused with bwaites 'Mule'...I'm always confused, LOL) in the MC he sold to bwaites. But there are some options, maybe over the next few months we can get the 'master' to validate for us. I could provide links, I could provide speculation, but don't we all rely on Ginseng for security of his most valuable 'experience'???
Waiting for Energizer AA 2200ma 15min charge cells that are supposed to appear for the holiday season. Short of that we have some 1800ma CBP cells, we have 15min Rayovac 2000ma that I hope will not overheat and shut off per safety relief pressure valve built-in to these specialized cells) in EL's 3AA-D adapters and prove a nice option for both M*g3D and MC for running that WA1185 anal bulb. 5amps is all we need and either 'easily available'(to whom Ginseng, don't we all have to PM you and hope that you have made some up; and that is your definition of easily available, kind of like 1/2D Aero NiMH 4ah batterysticks are 'easily' available...as long as Ginseng is doing the production/GB for no more than 2-weeks notice before the thread gets closed...which is when ???) mica disks, or alternatively www.flashlightlens.com would have stock of Cotronics ceramic paper...jury still out on it's effectiveness, as no one has tested it...hint, hint; and anyone with pair of sharp shears could cut a round circle, poke 2 holes in for bi-pin leads.
I will provide cells, bi-pin bulbs, for EL 3aa-D and the adapters themselves as soon as Wayne gets back from Hong Kong 3-to D ???????? , along with 6v/30w 5amps draw Osram projector bulb; if Ginseng will work on the other promising cheap thrills mod's in this 64440 IRC post. Come on people, you know you want the sexiest, most lusted after mod of them all (seeing that we can't have the Aurora IRC that Ginseng has) of perfect beam pattern? Runtime, ah who cares. Wait, using Li-Ion tech...well see M*gC my jab at Ginseng in this thread /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif thinking to mod my mag 4D....
Mag85 NiMh battery selection
Does anyone have a sacrificial MC lamb that Ginseng could use to test these options with? I'll provide the different sets of batteries/chargers, EL 3AA-D high-current adapters and 2 bulbs each(6v30w 5amp Osram 700+ lumens, 6v/20w 450-480 lumen top tip fill substitute for WA1160, which should provide yellower, but slightly longer runtime than overdriven WA1160, and Ushio 6v/15w 300lumen vs 175 lumens in stock MC) to Ginseng and we could wait for him to test over several months(his obligations to family and Ph.D study come 1st of course); but a MC that may melt down, costs $100.
BTW Tofu, responding to all of those other threads here in this thread will only confuse those who are not 'dogged('year of the dog' Tofu, not 'year of the monkey'), poster monkey's like myself ;-)
[ QUOTE ]
Ginseng said:
The MC has a more robust internal construction based on the materials and machining. The SL has easier access to the internals but is not as beefy. As for body, they are both aluminum tubes. Thread quality is comparable and a magnitude below SF or ARC. The light engine connection is completely different as you know to accommodate the fact that one focuses and the other does not.
The bulb damage you're worried about comes about from a condition which should by all rights be considered "abusive." Think about it, with the WA01160, you're pumping 2.7 times the spec power through the chain of components. Not 10% or 20% but 170%. If you don't want to subject your MC to this abuse, then don't run the WA01160.
You lose the capability to focus of course. The battery must be no less than the 3.5Ah UMP or 4Ah AeroNIMH pack. As for host durability, either one has the potential to last you for 5-10 years in this setup.
Unless I'm speaking from the standpoint of one that is brightness-jaded, is there more to this than I read? There are other details of course. If you wear gloves, the SL switch is better. If you want focus, then you must stay with the MC platform.
Beyond these straightforward options, there are a myriad of options. But your constraint of long runtime is a critical one. It means you will be using big batteries in a big body. There is no way around this in the incandescent arena.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hehe, now that Ginseng is busy with his PhD studies, we're on an almost level playing field ;-) Both js and Ginseng are going to slap me upside my head if they get the chance /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Actually, in consideration of his deity incandescent status, and I always /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif to wisdom/experience (age old, ancient fading Asian customs), I was hoping to engage Ginseng to take his limited free time and do some more comparison tests. Anyone like to have Ginseng do some comparison tests sign up here now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. bwaites has one of Ginseng's now 'useless' test mules (not to be confused with bwaites 'Mule'...I'm always confused, LOL) in the MC he sold to bwaites. But there are some options, maybe over the next few months we can get the 'master' to validate for us. I could provide links, I could provide speculation, but don't we all rely on Ginseng for security of his most valuable 'experience'???
Waiting for Energizer AA 2200ma 15min charge cells that are supposed to appear for the holiday season. Short of that we have some 1800ma CBP cells, we have 15min Rayovac 2000ma that I hope will not overheat and shut off per safety relief pressure valve built-in to these specialized cells) in EL's 3AA-D adapters and prove a nice option for both M*g3D and MC for running that WA1185 anal bulb. 5amps is all we need and either 'easily available'(to whom Ginseng, don't we all have to PM you and hope that you have made some up; and that is your definition of easily available, kind of like 1/2D Aero NiMH 4ah batterysticks are 'easily' available...as long as Ginseng is doing the production/GB for no more than 2-weeks notice before the thread gets closed...which is when ???) mica disks, or alternatively www.flashlightlens.com would have stock of Cotronics ceramic paper...jury still out on it's effectiveness, as no one has tested it...hint, hint; and anyone with pair of sharp shears could cut a round circle, poke 2 holes in for bi-pin leads.
I will provide cells, bi-pin bulbs, for EL 3aa-D and the adapters themselves as soon as Wayne gets back from Hong Kong 3-to D ???????? , along with 6v/30w 5amps draw Osram projector bulb; if Ginseng will work on the other promising cheap thrills mod's in this 64440 IRC post. Come on people, you know you want the sexiest, most lusted after mod of them all (seeing that we can't have the Aurora IRC that Ginseng has) of perfect beam pattern? Runtime, ah who cares. Wait, using Li-Ion tech...well see M*gC my jab at Ginseng in this thread /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif thinking to mod my mag 4D....
Mag85 NiMh battery selection
Does anyone have a sacrificial MC lamb that Ginseng could use to test these options with? I'll provide the different sets of batteries/chargers, EL 3AA-D high-current adapters and 2 bulbs each(6v30w 5amp Osram 700+ lumens, 6v/20w 450-480 lumen top tip fill substitute for WA1160, which should provide yellower, but slightly longer runtime than overdriven WA1160, and Ushio 6v/15w 300lumen vs 175 lumens in stock MC) to Ginseng and we could wait for him to test over several months(his obligations to family and Ph.D study come 1st of course); but a MC that may melt down, costs $100.
BTW Tofu, responding to all of those other threads here in this thread will only confuse those who are not 'dogged('year of the dog' Tofu, not 'year of the monkey'), poster monkey's like myself ;-)
