Bicycle prices

[Frangible]

I just took a trip to the local bike shop and finally bought a new bicycle after many years, a Giant Boulder. It's a nice bike, buuut. I don't understand the pricing on bikes at all.

Most of the cost from a bike comes from the frame. My bike's frame is made of good old steel, the "cheap" material.

Aluminum framed bikes were at least twice as expensive, and titanium ones were well over $1k.

Umm... what? Aluminum is a cheap metal that is more common than iron. Many alloys of steel cost far in excess of aluminum.

Titanium costs ~$1.25/pound in bulk. There are 5 pounds of titanium is a bike frame. How is < $10 in material translating to several thousand in a bike frame otherwise identical to the steel frame?

Appearently steel is looked down upon but I can't fathom why other than weight. Me, I'll take the extra 10% heavier bike for several grand less and infinite fatigue stress.

Oh yeah, fatigue stress. Kinda funny how the aluminum framed stuff has a 5 year warranty, and the steel, lifetime.

All metals and materials have their place. But I don't think bike frames and bicycle prices are in any way connected to material cost.

 

[JOshooter]

Name.

 

[LEDSmith]

I have been mountain biking for more than 15 years and can tell you why I prefer aluminum. for the similar weight as steel, Aluminum allows for larger diameter tubing - which in turn creates a stiffer frame. A stiffer frame translates to better pedalling response (control)and greater overall efficiency. Allowing the rider to go farther and faster.

The Price, it may have something to do with the increased difficulty in manufacture (precision welding) and the cost of special tapered tubing to furhter reduce weight.

Steel offers a plush comfort feel(cadillac) - while Aluminum offers more of a tight sports car feel.

 

[Darkcobra]

A lot of it is Brand Name.
I also believe its the technology put into the bikes along with the frame material. I bought my Full Suspension aluminum frame for $1700 4 years ago, still able to compete with todays features in my opinion.

 

[KC2IXE]

OK, besides brand, Steel tube bikes are MUCH easier to Mfg - they are brazed on fairly simple jigs, or even freehand!! (some customs). Al bikes have to be TIG welded, plus have no lugs to keep them aligned during the process

Ti is a DOG to work with

That said, if I remember right, frames (unless you went crazy) were about 1/2 the cost of most of the bikes I built. By the time you bought the groupo, rims, spokes, bars, saddle, tires, chain, bar tape and all the other little things that don't come in the groupo, it all added up to about what the frame cost

 

[IlluminatingBikr]

There is so much more to a bike's cost than the cost of the frame material.

 

[B@rt]

[ QUOTE ]
Frangible said:

Most of the cost from a bike comes from the frame.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, did you ever look at the cost of a good group? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/faint.gif

 

[geepondy]

You pay for decreasing weight while maintaining strength. Also as mentioned, the ride and feel is different for each material. I prefer good chromoly (steel with alloys) for a road bike over aluminium but would like to try a titanium bike sometime.

 

[kakster]

And if you really want to go nuts, you can add stuff like a Titanium chain or a swanky Mono-blade anti-dive front suspension .

Silliness aside, the bulk of the price of my MTB does seem to be the frame itself. It retails on its own for roughly 2/3rds the total cost of my bike.

 

[BentHeadTX]

Frame prices are not that bad as long as suspension is not involved. Aluminum is a bigger pain to weld reliably than steel and the cost jumps due to warranty issues. You pay for that warranty if the ultra-light aluminum frame is on your menu.

Steel is very easy to weld UNLESS it is an exotic thin walled wazoo material (Reynolds 753 etc) Exotic alloys be it aluminum, steel or titanium is going to be expen$ive.

Titanium is my favorite, the strength of a mild steel (yep, weaker than chro-moly steel) the lightness of aluminum, no corrosion problems and the properties of steel (fatigue life, it bends etc) As far as the alloys, give me 2.5/3.0 as it is easier to machine so much cheaper.

A huge cost in bicycles is the components. The wheels, bearings, derailluers, shifters, bars, posts, seats and other various things add up quickly. We don't even want to talk suspension costs, that goes through the roof.

My frame is steel, a nice chro-moly recumbent frame. If I worried about lightness, I would not of got it with full suspension, rear rack, bags, lights and heavy-duty wheels. Want to complain about bike prices? Take a look at recumbents... it will make your flashlight habit look cheap.

 

[IlluminatingBikr]

My dad has a hybrid bike right now, without any suspension. If he wanted to get a suspension front fork, it would cost almost as much as the whole bike!

 

[KC2IXE]

Agreed, which is what I was pointing out - Frames were the least of my worries when I built my road bike

 

[JOshooter]

Hybrid bike? I've never heard of one of those before.

 

[gtwace]

The aluminum and Titanium frame is expensive because of the grade used, low grade aluminum frame is very cheap too. Titanium frame uses high purity titanium and not any normal titanium as a small amount of impurity will create a weak point causing crack on impact. The price of the component will depend on its weight and reliability, a difference of 100g may cost up to 2x the price as those are race components and made to the extreme of weight to strength ratio. much like how expensive some flashlight is here.

 

[Frangible]

[ QUOTE ]
The aluminum and Titanium frame is expensive because of the grade used, low grade aluminum frame is very cheap too

[/ QUOTE ]

The alloy used in every aluminum frame I looked at was the same, I don't recall the exact number though, 6051 maybe? Was pretty standard stuff.

[ QUOTE ]
Titanium frame uses high purity titanium and not any normal titanium as a small amount of impurity will create a weak point causing crack on impact.

[/ QUOTE ]

Every titanium alloy I've seen, from the $4000 bike, to my $10 titanium spork, is Ti-6Al-4V. Which costs a whopping $1.25/pound.

Look, I'm not saying Al/Ti aren't good materials. Every metal has its use. But the price of the frame with either of them is massive profit margin afaik, and has little to do with materials cost.

 

[gtwace]

Actually, alot of money goes to R&D and for sponsored Races, like an F1 team, anyway, if you are looking at an expensive frame, it would be due to the way it was machined, ever heard of titanium honeycomb structure ? The same frame made in Europe will cost twice that of made in China, why ? Reliability and high grade machinery I guess. I would stay away from titanium spork and quick release as they have a history of cracking on impact.

P.S Trekshops does have a high profit margin. Get a bike magazine, there is some pretty cheap no frills titanium bikes around.

 

[geepondy]

I love my hybrid bike. It's a great bike that can handle broken pavement and dirt roads with aplomb. I've done 40-50 mile trips on the hybrid. Also only have ever gotten one flat with it.

[ QUOTE ]
JOshooter said:
Hybrid bike? I've never heard of one of those before.

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[Flatscan]

[ QUOTE ]
The alloy used in every aluminum frame I looked at was the same, I don't recall the exact number though, 6051 maybe? Was pretty standard stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]
My 1999 GT Ricochet is 7000-series Al, which is supposedly stiffer than the "more forgiving" 6061-T6. If I had gotten an Avalanche (one model up) instead, it would have been exactly the same bike, except for 1) "better" frame materials, 2) downgraded components, mostly in shifters and drivetrain, and 3) $250 (35% increase) in price.

I have no idea of the differences between the alloys or whether 7000 is being used anymore.

 

[Reptilezs]

7000 series aluminum is the real aircraft grade aluminum. some manufactures toot that 6061-t6 as aircraft but its not

 

[270winchester]

as an avid DH rider, I own three bikes, total value over 6 grand. and i'm a kid that made all the money via working odd jobs and such.

Let me tell ya, the cost is not just "how many grams of aluminium can possibly cost for that bike". It's the R&D, over head, employee pay, dealer profit, transportation, and continous evolution of parts, much like how surefire does things. you get what you pay for. if you merely look at it as a mode of transportation, then no one needs anything more than a 50 bucker from the k. but those who appericiate subtle differences would know that parts demand precision, thorough engineering and pro sponsorship to make the marketing work. Why do you think trek sponsors Lans Armstrong?
P.S., I'm not fussy when it comes down to material, it's not THAT big of a deal. I ride nothing but aluminium because they are the cheapest and most rigid for their weight.
my bikes, my rifles, my boots, and my flashlights are my pride and joy.