BLPS glasses for red lasers - evaluation and comments

[Bimmerboy]

Recently, there was much activity here on the subject of military issue, BLPS safety eyewear. Thanks to Wileecoyote's impetus, the information neccessary to determine their effectiveness was found. I invite anyone not familiar with the discussions to search for the related threads. Reason being is there are details one needs to know if you're interested in buying these things. There are a few eBay sellers dealing BLPS, but the items are not all the same, and not all sellers are listing their products accurately. In a case like this, what you don't know can hurt you.

I wrote to the eBay seller who currently seems to have the largest inventory of BLPS, to ask a few questions about what looked to be the more recent generation. Specifically, if they were the green laser protective, dark brown glasses marked with "S3". The one word reply was a very helpful and informative "nope". The reply I gave him in return suggested that he stop listing them as laser glasses, because they obviously are not. I got no further response, and he has not revised his listings. He even claims them to be "the real thing". Yeah sure, they're BLPS alright... just not for lasers. They are the non-protective, sunglass only lenses. I have to wonder how long it'll be before an uninformed purchaser winds up with eye damage, because he believed to be protected from laser light. This seller also has listings for the older generation BLPS with the attachable green "frontsert". The frontsert is probably for ruby red protection, but details are not known, and cannot be recommended. Also, the older style never had any protection protection for green lasers, so beware... the dark colored ones are also non-protective, sunglass only lenses.

Anyway, I found a different seller who not only had "the real thing", but was helpful in giving me the correct information about them. Turned out they are, in fact, the green lensed, red laser protective, "newer" generation BLPS marked with "S2". They're priced a few bucks more than the other guy, but you have the confidence in knowing exactly what you're getting. WELL worth it! I got a pair, and checked them out last night.

They work. Basically simple as that. They are OD 4 @ 690nm, and I tested them at 660nm. My subjective visual impression of these things is that they allow about 1/4 of the red laser light through, which seems to be backed up by the data. Yes, I know you can't tell that because of human eye response curves and such, but when I put them on for the first time, my reaction was literally "wow, they seem to cut out about 3/4 of the brightness". I found myself wishing they were slightly stronger, like OD 5 or 6, especially because of the possibility of making an even stronger red than I currently have, but for my estimated 80mW reddie, they seem to be doing an adequate job as far as this newbie can tell.

Construction looks to be strong and sturdy. They also fit well enough over my regular prescription glasses, and don't move or slide around. The carrying case is very strong, although I recommend keeping the glasses in the plastic bag to avoid scratching when taking them out or putting them into the case. The ALICE clips are very noisy and rattly if not attached to other ALICE gear, so I took them off.

In all, I'm happy with these glasses. I'll be on the lookout for any green laser protective "S3" glasses from this seller. Nobody currently seems to have them, but I've requested the seller to keep his eyes open for them. No pun intended.

 

[Bimmerboy]

Ya' know, I didn't name names in this post, and to be honest, I didn't have a valid reason for that. More of just a undefined feeling perhaps of not wanting to come off as attacking an eBay seller?... stupid. It's silly to not openly say who's selling what, especially where eye protection is concerned. So without further ado...

The seller I bought from is 7403squirrel. The seller I did NOT buy from is tlb013. What I really didn't dig about tlb was the listing of glasses for ballistic protection only as laser glasses, and then claiming them to be "the real thing". The lack of effort to provide any information whatsoever to a couple of genuine questions, other than "nope", didn't sit well with me either.

I believe this thread now has a bit more meaning to it with names attached. I also have my reddie running up to snuff pretty good now (went from alky's to E2's, and improved some solder connections), and will report back on how the BLPS's do against the increased power.

 

[bridaw]

Ahh, thank you for "outing" that seller. Saves me sending you a PM.

About the time I read your original post I sent email to two sellers. One never responded and the one that did was less than helpful. To my very specific question that would be easy to answer if you have the real thing I received the response "only as shown".

I followed up by asking him what is shown and if he knows what lens he is selling. I also pointed out he is selling them as LASER glasses, shame on him if they are not.

I received a more helpful response to that email (21 words). He told me he will get the nsn from the box and he thought it was legible in the photos. He did confirm they are NOT "the brown ones".

That was yesterday. Hmmm. If it were me.... I would have simply checked the box first before responding.

I assumed it was the same seller. Now I know. I'm moving on. I understand why you didn't originally but thank you very much for naming this seller.

 

[Bimmerboy]

OK, folks... a word of caution. So TAKE NOTE!

Since putting Energizer E2's in the reddie, I must say the BLPS glasses don't seem to be strong enough for this kind of output. Remember I mentioned wishing they were OD 5 or 6? Make that 6 or 7.

My red laser must now be putting out at least 80mW, and wouldn't be surprised if it's over 90mW. After a little close up work trying to light a match last night, I wasn't enjoying the amount of light I was seeing. It does not seem to have affected my vision at all that I'm aware of, and have been looking at objects of all different colors to try to make sure. But, the exposure left me feeling slightly strange for over a couple hours. It felt like a bad case of eye strain. I have been pretty sick this week, sinus infection and all, so that could've exaccerbated the feeling. Everything feels worse when you're under the weather.

Regardless, I'd say that if you're using anything over 50mW, DEFINITELY get something stronger than BLPS for close proximity. The batteries I started out with were used alkaline AA's, and I felt the glasses were already getting maxed out at close range. With the lithiums, forget about it! No need for anyone else to try. There were no "reflective" surfaces involved in the match lighting, was wearing the BLPS, and it still made me feel like crap!

Remember, be more careful with your eyes than you might even think neccessary. You don't want to find out the hard way. I took more of a risk than I should have, and feel a bit stupid about it. If I'm lucky, that'll be the worst of it, and will be mentioned during my next visit to the Opthamologist, so he can specifically inspect for any issues related to laser damage. I doubt I suffered any damage, but things could've gotten worse if I didn't stop when I did.

All I can say in conclusion is, although I had respect for laser power to begin with, that respect has now tripled. A high powered laser truly needs to be treated on the same level as a firearm. I'm going to do myself a BIG favor at some point, and get the Noir glasses from Wicked. IIRC, they're at least two steps stronger than the BLPS, and at $50, I'm beginning to consider them an absolute STEAL.

Until then, there will be no match burning, electrical tape cutting, or much else for that matter.

 

[Ashton]

WOW, I'm almsot scared to use my >150mw red now O.O I havn't been able to order any OD goggles yet period, I figured I could be careful and use the laser only aroudn dark, none-reflective surfaces to light a few matches/pop baloons/cut plastic/etc and be safe for the test period (if the lasers a dud, I'll be returning it and will need a different set of goggles)

 

[Bimmerboy]

Back to add some more thoughts after doing a LOT more reading on the subject of laser eye damage, laser eye protection, and numerous related topics. I'm forming some opinions about my last post, but still have more questions than answers at this point. Learning about, and making sense of all the info to consider is challenging to say the least.

First comment... about the feeling of eye strain. It felt similar to putting on glasses that were too strong for a minute. Not sure what that's about. So far, I've not seen that stated anywhere as a symptom of laser exposure above MPE (the ANSI specification of Maximum Permissible Exposure). However, I reproduced the feeling last night, although to a lesser degree. After taking slightly more stringent precautions, I did some match lighting. Yes, curiosity got the better of me. The precautions involved stronger room lighting to minimize pupil size, shorter individual testing durations, and looking at the matches from a much more oblique angle than last time.

When finished, there was no immediate feeling of eye strain, or any type of strangeness, but it finally began to onset a few minutes later. Again, to a lesser degree than last time. Both times though, I began to feel tired not long afterward, and both times wound up taking a nap, which I don't normally do. There have been no vision problems after either experience, including any spots, color recognition problems, etc.

Hypothesis? Don't really have one yet, much less a conclusion. Perhaps I have a tendency toward eye strain in some way? Could being sick this week have made me susceptible to that feeling? Additionally, I've always thought myself to be slightly more sensitive than average to overly bright light, like occasionally feeling a bit "snowblinded" on very bright, sunny days. So who the heck knows (just a rhetorical question)? Also, I've been told recently that viewing non-specular reflected laser light can trigger migraines in some people. Haven't seen that yet in my research, but am still looking. In all, except for retinal and corneal burn injuries, which are easy to understand, I do not know all the ways in which laser light can affect someone.

Next comment... as far as I can tell, simple lens color is nowhere near the only factor in determining protection wavelenghts. In searching around, I've come across people stating you simply need a certain color lens to block certain colors of laser light. Again, to the best of what I think is actual knowledge on my part, this is a dangerous statement. For one thing, you'll never know the OD, VLT, dye degradation from direct beam exposure, or any other data, if you just grab some piece of red plastic to block a green laser, or blue plastic to block a red laser. Another thing that tells me not to rely on color alone, is the fact that laser glasses come in a variety of lens colors, many times blocking the same or similar wavelengths. I've even seen multi-wavelength glasses that have clear lenses! Obviously, there is MUCH more to the story than simple dye color.

There are numerous unknown quantities, in addition to the not yet fully understood ones, that have me a little confused. One being that I do not know the effectiveness of the BLPS glasses at 660nm. The are, in fact, OD 4 @ 694nm, which is the wavelength of a ruby laser. However, what I've found in looking at various glasses specifications, is that protection doesn't neccessarily extend far outside the intended wavelength. In many cases, the OD can fall off dramatically within what might SEEM to be a fairly small range. My reddie is a full 34nm lower than what the BLPS was designed for. 650nm and 635nm reds are, of course, even further from the 694 nm wavelength. I'm most interested in finding out how narrow the protection range for my glasses is, and may just have to make a few phone calls to some odd facilities to attempt to find out. "Odd" meaning, the places I may try to contact probably don't get many calls from the general public, but hell... I want to know if I'm getting proper protection with what I have.

Which brings up another issue. The beforementioned Wicked glasses. It appears the "Elite" models are only 1.5 OD @ 633nm for the red protection, and only 2 OD @ 532nm for green? Is this much protection for the higher power lasers some of us have? There's gotta' be people here using the Wicked's (Noir's), and I'd love to hear your impressions on how much they attenuate laser light, or don't.

I also have to admit that I found something somewhat concerning, although intriguing, on the Wicked site. For $40, they are offering what they call "LaserShades" that look EXACTLY like the so-called "Disto Laser glasses" on eBay for $10. They are offered in red (for green protection), and blue (for red protection). No info about them is stated. Does anyone know what these things are, who makes them, and what are their specifications? If not, I'll contact Wicked and find out if they have info on them.

The quest continues.

 

[wileecoyote]

I hesitate to even post to this thread for fear of restarting the whole BLPS fiasco again. However I am in possession of some additional info which may help you, so here it goes:

99% of the sellers offering BLPS have no idea what they are selling. They purchase army surplus gear in huge quantities from government auctions and some shipments just happen to include some BLPS items. The actual BLPS product which they get could be the old or new model, old or new stock, damaged or brand new, clear or gray or green or brown or dark brown or frontsert lenses, etc. Unfortunately all of these models are labeled "BLPS" with the term "laser protective" marked on the carton label and instruction booklet so the sellers reasonably assume that all of these glasses will protect you from lasers.

I have since educated many sellers about the different models and stock types, yet all but one of them don't really care: they just want to sell their product for a profit and thus they will continue to post their auctions however they can, in some cases they deliberately leave out the detail or even include misleading text to increase the chances of a sale.

Even if you do find the new model BLPS with the thick dark green or dark brown laser-protective lenses, there are some old expired units on the market which, even though they are brand new, have probably been sitting in a hot warehouse for years which is most likely why they were sold as surplus. I acquired some of this inventory and found that the plastic hinges on the expired product would literally crack and come apart from normal use, usually after just a few times of opening and closing the frame arms. To be 100% sure of what you are getting you need to confirm the exact NSN part numbers and expiration dates which are marked on the product cartons, and be sure they are brand new. Trouble is that virtually none of the BLPS stock on the civilian market is new and still within current date range, thus true deals are highly unlikely and the vast amount of time you spend trying to find it will negate the small savings anyway.

After the BLPS group-buy saga ended I acquired nearly a dozen additional laser glasses of all kinds, most of which are brand new and especially made for laser use in the lab. I have not had time to document my tests or conclusions but I can summarize my findings by telling you what I would buy for myself at this time:

1. Current-issue, new and unused, not expired, US Military SPECS system or SWDG system (sun, wind, dust goggles) with dark green and/or dark brown lenses. I have a set of these and they are awesome for my green 100+ mW laser, so much so that I can't see much of anything at all when they are on unless I have bright lights in the room. I prefer the SWDG model since they cover the entire face and don't let stray reflections in via the side. They are also quite comfortable and can be worn over normal glasses, and they are usually cheaper if you can find them.

2. Brand new stock from Phillips-Safety or Noir-Laser which are both available in dozens of lens and frame combinations depending on your coverage needs. In my opinion these are far superior to anything on the market including the limited lenses sold by WL, which I assume are lower coverage just so you can still see the beam, otherwise their customers would complain that they paid a lot of $$$ for a bright beam which becomes invisible with glasses.

FYI: I was able to negotiate pricing on item number 2 down to $30-$50 per unit for a group buy of only 50-100 units but decided not to proceed due to the higher cost and the extreme hassle of the BLPS attempt. So many people griped and complained, emailed me to death with the same basic questions over and over, didn't read the forum posts, and acted like I was going to run off to the Bahamas with their $12.25 that there was no way I was going to trust the general public at large for up to $50 per pair. This is no offense to the majority of forum members which are reputable and trustworthy but the hassle of collecting payment, shipping, and handling all the emails and details just wasn't worth it, especially when I was doing it for free as a favor.

I actually have many more glasses now than I need so I plan to sell some of them at cost soon. I will PM the reputable members of the first group-buy since I believe they should have first choice, then if any are not sold I will put the rest on ebay. Good luck in your quest for additional eye protection options. Keep in mind the only guaranteed means of protection is to simply not fool with high powered lasers to begin with...

WileE

 

[Bimmerboy]

Good info, WileE. I've come to some of the same observations when it comes to the eBay sellers dealing BLPS and SPECS.

Speaking of which, although I don't know the date of manufacture for my BLPS, they appear to be in very healthy condition. Quite sturdy, and no sign of structural problems or cracking. Is that possible with polycarb? I've exposed polycarb to harsh and varying outdoor conditions for long periods of time, and it seems to be fine even after a couple years.

Also, I'm interested in your potential offerings and will keep a sharp eye out (the remaining one :laughing: ) for any PM's and/or sales threads.

 

[YAG]

Read up on your optical density stuff... OD of 4 is .01% transmission, not 25%. Here is a chart.

https://www.omegafilters.com/index.php?page=tech_con_chart

 

[Bimmerboy]

Hi YAG,

Thanks for the link. I should have corrected that ignorant statement in the first post, as I've come to learn this in the last couple days. If you or anyone else happens to know, I have a question following from this.

Say you have OD4 @ whatever intended wavelength. The transmission is .01% or (1/10000), but say you get a straight beam in the eye. I'd imagine the eye will still take whatever coherent light that comes through, and focus it down 100,000 times. I'll assume so for the moment. Therefore, will the intensity at the retina be factored to 10 times the original beam? Just want to make sure I'm not confused on the math.

Note: This is purely an academic question. Under no circumstances will I be doing any testing in this direction. :laughing:

Going forward, I'm still looking to get data on how far, and to what level the BLPS protection extends below the 694.3nm range. If that's possible, perhaps this thread can be saved from being a complete exercise in idiocy... lol.

It can be slightly embarrassing at times to publicly display one's own ignorance while learning a new subject, but hopefully I'll be able to offer at least some info of value, sooner or later.