Brainstorming for a NON ELECTRICAL Flashlight

[mobile1]

Just as a brainstorming session...

I was thinking it would be fun to design / build a non electric flashlight, kind of antique, either candle or oil powered... similar to the automatic (non electrical) high end Swiss watches...

The question is what to do, how should it look like, in an ideal world I'd like something ingenious.. some manual / automatic mechanism that makes it special, like the automatic winding with the watches....


So what would you like to see in a non electrical flashlight.... post your ideas... if we can find a compelling package we might even try to make it work.... since it is non electrical it would probably have to be flame based...

Here is what I can think off - not nescessarily all combined in one light...

• High end Gear Mechanism to keep flame level
• Glass Optics / reflector to focus flame into a narrow beam spot
• Pneumatic oil supply system
• Very small AAA sized - flame/oil based light
• Cable based system that does stuff....

What else.. go to town.... the perfect Davinci Era flashlight... anything goes but electrical...

 

[GLOCK18]

How about something like this, 3H 60 micro Gas acrylic tubes titanium coin edge on top and bottom with sapphire windows, the coin edge parts would turn using 30 small bearings. No LE as in picture. Or an acrylic tritium 3H tube in the center.

 

[Illum]

a flashlight with alot of balls
tritium spheres each placed under a collimator of some sort

 

[spongefile]

What else.. go to town.... the perfect Davinci Era flashlight... anything goes but electrical...

I believe you've caught the steampunk bug. It's ok, I have it too.

Here's my thinking-aloud rambling in the hopes that it'll fire off some ideas for you. In some sense, a Zippo is a non-electrical flashlight, though I know this isn't really what you're picturing. One design limitation is of course that flames and their heat want to go upwards, and flashlights are generally horizontal tubes. Imagine fireplace-lighters--probably not the aesthetic you're going for, but you could buy one and see if you could work out the limitations/lensing possibilities of one of those before making the mechanism that would actually light it/keep it lit. Might be neat to figure out a reflector/lens system that would focus a flame and make it flashlight-like. I like to be systematic about my projects and would personally probably start there first.

 

[Th232]

Apart from some smart-aleck responses (like a colony of fungi that glow in the dark), I'd vote for something using fire as well.

Unsure on whether oil or gas would be better, but in either case I'd surround it with a candleluminescent material. It pretty means a material that will emit light very efficiently when it's in a flame, like the stuff they use in lantern mantles. Not sure how hot it needs to get though. The loss in light that's blocked by the mantle is more than compensated by the light emitted from the mantle. There're various combinations of material available, but one of the more common ones involves thorium (ever heard of the radioactive boy scout?). That in itself could open up some interesting things (take that you puny tritium vial!). We'd need to isolate the flame and other gunk from the phosphors though, unsure how.

Regardless if a mantle is possible or not, we could do any number of things.

Focussing wise, I'd go for a reflector made from a solid piece of metal, ideally no specialised, fragile coating, since I suspect we'd have to clean carbon off it fairly often. If there's a coating that is physically and thermally resilient enough, that would be neat. The reflector might have to be thermally isolated from the handle, dependent on the temperature though. Lots of good thermal insulators out there that are pretty cool,

That said, with the large emitter size, I really would go for a more flood type light and ditch the whole "tube with light coming out one end". I'm drawing up something right now, I'll edit it in a bit later.

Edit:
So here's what I'm thinking, your comment on watches started me off. Pocket watches, to be precise.

Size is about 60 mm dia, height 30 or so? Might be a little high, but the concept is still the same. Pocket watch is only there for size (I made it few years back, just chucked it in for scale). The lid can serve as a sort of reflector if so desired, but given how shallow it is I'm not sure how useful that'll be. Maybe not have the lid as a full cylinder, but only part of it? Other random thoughts:

I sort of drew a rack & pinion system in there attached to the lid, that could do any number of things. Two that come to mind are:
Raise the nozzle, mantle or whatever when the lid is opened.
Ignite when lid is opened.

I drew a cap and a knob in there, keeping all of the stuff for refueling, power and all in there would make for a nice exterior. Not sure how that would work if opening the lid causes ignition though.

Exterior, maybe have the fuel container surrounded with Ti rods, like the Gatlight? Space for engraving, carving or any number of things.

Well, that's my crazy idea out there.

Double edit: I'd been having image hosting issues, the image came out in triplicate! Removed the copies, sorry about that!

 

[jch79]

Th232-
oo: COOL! oo:
Great concept, and awesome rendering!
:thumbsup: john

 

[socom1970]

DUUUDE!!! Th232!!! That's awesome!

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

piezo starter

shield to keep wind from blowing the flame (a moving target is harder to focus)

perhaps a lens like a lighthouse, and collapsible?

mantle instead of flame?

 

[Th232]

Thanks guys, it was a fun little exercise to think about.

 

[Tony Hanna]

This is a neat idea!
I wonder how acetylene (generated from water + carbide like the old miner's lamps) would do with th232's mantel idea?
For that matter, an acetylene flame is pretty bright by itself (as open flames go) when fed the proper amount of air.:thumbsup:

 

[Illum]

This is a neat idea!
I wonder how acetylene (generated from water + carbide like the old miner's lamps) would do with th232's mantel idea?
For that matter, an acetylene flame is pretty bright by itself (as open flames go) when fed the proper amount of air.:thumbsup:

I think a carbide lamp may be possible...but its going to be limited by how big your water tank/gas reservoir is. Unless you plan on using a very small jet of flame and a magnifying glass or a Fresnel lens that pops up like the cross hair on a military compass when the lid is opened

 

[Stillphoto]

oooh...a tiny carbon arc light would be amazing, and probably impossible. I know a ton of film people that would dork out on one of those. Plus the color / quality of light would be beautiful.

 

[Tony Hanna]

I think a carbide lamp may be possible...but its going to be limited by how big your water tank/gas reservoir is. Unless you plan on using a very small jet of flame and a magnifying glass or a Fresnel lens that pops up like the cross hair on a military compass when the lid is opened

I'd say you're right, it probably would have to be up into 2xC-2xD size territory in order to hold enough carbide and water to make a decent flame for an extended period. Another challenge would be how to keep the water dripping onto the carbide at a steady rate regardless of the position it's held in (providing it's shaped like a traditional flashlight and not a lantern with a handle that's only intended to be held one way).

Another thought I had regarding a fuel source is those mini butane cylinders made for the small oxy/butane torches. They're about the size of a CO2 cartridge for a pellet pistol. Something like that would be a perfect "no hassle" fuel source (just drop in a new one like changing batteries), but personally I think a light based on one would lack the soul of a more complicated gadget designed around carbide or oil.

 

[Illum]

Another challenge would be how to keep the water dripping onto the carbide at a steady rate regardless of the position it's held in (providing it's shaped like a traditional flashlight and not a lantern with a handle that's only intended to be held one way).

It wouldn't be too difficult now that semi-permeable membranes have been created, depending on the thickness and rigidity of cellulose film used...you could make a membrane sphere with water in the middle that would allow a fixed rate of permeation regardless of orientation. Since the water seepage through diffusion is relatively small and works both ways while being in fluid contact on both sides, severe surface area compensation and design vias could be necessary to prevent water contamination.

An easier approach is to apply some air pressure to the water and force it through a pin shaft like that of a hypodermic needle...as long as the air input is in an independent chamber as the pin shaft I think it could work. Or the same way as a balloon filled with water and a hole poked on the rubber cork that's holding the outlet, by rubber tension alone keeps a constant pressure on the water its carrying. There's many more ideas where that come from...but most of them will not constitute as a stable design.

Another thought I had regarding a fuel source is those mini butane cylinders made for the small oxy/butane torches. They're about the size of a CO2 cartridge for a pellet pistol. Something like that would be a perfect "no hassle" fuel source (just drop in a new one like changing batteries), but personally I think a light based on one would lack the soul of a more complicated gadget designed around carbide or oil.

While the CO2 cartridges are better in terms of keeping things simple, my main peeve is the fact that the cartridges are not rechargeable and you'd have to carry alot of spares in the long run:candle:

 

[Tony Hanna]

It wouldn't be too difficult now that semi-permeable membranes have been created, depending on the thickness and rigidity of cellulose film...you could make a membrane sphere with water in the middle that would allow a fixed rate of permeation regardless of orientation.

I wouldn't have ever thought of that.:thumbsup: In fact, I was busting my head trying to think up some sort of gimbal system that would hold the tanks in the proper orientation regardless of the position of the body.
One question about the membrane though. Is there any way to adjust the permeability of something like that? I'm just wondering if there would still be a way to control the rate of gas production by speeding up or slowing down the water flow?

While the CO2 cartridges are better in terms of keeping things simple, my main peeve is the fact that the cartridges are not rechargeable and you'd have to carry alot of spares in the long run:candle:

Right, but on the other hand, the butane in those little cartridges is stored as a liquid so they should have the capacity to sustain a small flame for quite a long time. I'd have to dig out my little torch and do some runtime tests with different flame sizes to be sure but I do remember that the butane cartridges would outlast the oxygen cartridges several times over. another advantage to them would be a virtually unlimited shelf life. I can't see why stored cartridges wouldn't be ready to go 10, 20, or even 100 years later.:thumbsup:

 

[Th232]

I've got a small blowtorch at home that just runs off a normal lighter, minus the flint. Some wasted space in the head of the lighter, but it could be an option. The lighter can be refilled as well.

 

[Illum]

One question about the membrane though. Is there any way to adjust the permeability of something like that? I'm just wondering if there would still be a way to control the rate of gas production by speeding up or slowing down the water flow?

Gosh, back when I still working in the biology lab we had rolls of cellulose film that's fabricated into cylinders but comes rolled up. Too bad I didn't taken any with me when I graduated:shakehead
Permeability is often addressed as part of cellular osmosis demonstrations... apparently you could either use more than one layer of membrane to cut the diffusion cycle by half or decrease the solution density to near equilibrium. Either way it has to be in contact with solution on both side for effective transportation of water to occur.

well...maybe there could be an air pressure valve in front of where the water enters the membrane chamber that can close itself when the acetylene reaches a certain pressure. Modifying the valve cutoff could be a promising way to regulate acetylene pressure. the key would be to create a container that a valve assembly can be screwed onto like that of a bottle cap on a soda bottle. Create a cylinder chamber in which the water valve is surrounded by acetylene gas that to a certain pressure cuts the water supply off.

 

[Tony Hanna]

I've got a small blowtorch at home that just runs off a normal lighter, minus the flint. Some wasted space in the head of the lighter, but it could be an option. The lighter can be refilled as well.

An interesting experiment might be to try to fit a small lantern mantle over the burner. It would be cool to see just how far you could turn the flame down and still get a decent output from the mantle. The only problem I can see with the mantle idea is how fragile they are. Another possibility might be heating a small piece of calcium oxide to the point of candoluminescence (miniature limelight) but I'm not sure it would be possible to get the flame hot enough with just the oxygen from the surrounding air.

Gosh, back when I still working in the biology lab we had rolls of cellulose film that's fabricated into cylinders but comes rolled up. Too bad I didn't taken any with me when I graduated:shakehead
Permeability is often addressed as part of cellular osmosis demonstrations... apparently you could either use more than one layer of membrane to cut the diffusion cycle by half or decrease the solution density to near equilibrium. Either way it has to be in contact with solution on both side for effective transportation of water to occur.

Hmm, yeah, the having to be in contact with solution on both sides seems to create a bit of trouble...

What about a tank pressurized by a small coleman lantern style pump that has a hose with a weight on the end of it similar to the fuel pickup in a chainsaw? In theory the weight would keep the hose at the lowest point in the tank regardless of the tank's position. A small needle valve could then be used to regulate (or stop) the water flow to the carbide to allow for flame height adjustment and shutdown.

This is fun.

 

[Illum]

fun indeed:nana:

that could certainly work...but I don't think osmosis will even occur if there's pressurized water on one side and liquefied gas on the other. If at all gas will start bubbling in

I've never used carbide lamps before but we could certainly reverse the idea to make it more stable: a reusable canister filled with carbide pellets housed in a container that has a certain degree of water permeation under pressure. The canister can then be screwed into an "outer container" containing water and a pressure regulator fed with a hand pump or a CO2 cartridge.

All you would need then is some type of duct that connects to the carbide canisters and as long as the canisters are completely submerged the ducts will continue to produce gas.

Now, for the pressurization of water without mixing air into water the regulator could be connected to a plastic diaphragm in the "outer container" the same way residential pressurization tanks does, not only will this alleviate or increase water pressure more effectively and equally, it will not mix air and water during pressurization

the "outer container" and the "carbide canister" is kinda analogous to a 2D eveready waterlogged with two D cell batteries submerged within all that water. Where the "outer container" is the flashlight body, "carbide canisters" being the batteries, and the water is whatever that's filling up the space between the two

For that matter I have created a conceptual drawing of what eventually will become my personal "micro battery" concept.
I drew it up in Autodesk Inventor 2009 Professional. The aspect ratio is maintained but everything is off in terms of actual dimensions.

Heres the basic concept, drawn after brainstorming sometime between 4-6AM...

Note the 3in x 4.25in dimension...I don't intend to give the machinist something this small... but I would hope my keychain carbide light isn't going to weigh like a barn burner either

unfortunately for this particular rendering the thread faces were not rendered with the section view, but here's the "carbide canister" colored and isolated. Carbide pellets would be between the perforated piece [conceptually I used perforated metal visual style] and the green part, which then screws onto the adapter collar [blue], which could be modified to fit any existing hose connection.



So water will flow in to the center slowly, turn to gas and siphoned up the center channel. the only unresolved issue is...what lining to use as the membrane and what sort of a vacuum breaker can I use and correctly implement it assuming that its a closed shell. I'm thinking of a flat base that connects to the bottom of the cylinder that will house some sort of water/air pump assembly to give the water a little push into the channel.

By design if the cylinder is full, orientation is no longer a concern

I filleted the base of the inner cylinder because my original idea included a closed air toroid diaphragm that can be miniaturized to an extent and maintain a constant pressure to the water mass as the volume of water decreases.

Instead of a membrane, we could exercise a little elastic plastic where it would keep water on the surface but not permeate through, there by only the outer shell of carbide catalyst actually produces gas, then as it dissolves, it is replaced by new catalyst flowing from the inside out with some type of spring assistance perhaps?

 

[Th232]

Very nice design and renderings Illum!

Got a couple of small questions though. I'm not sure if I'm reading this right, but are we regulating the acetylene production by altering the water pressure? I'm a bit worried that it'll continue to produce gas even when it's nominally "off".

Second, more of a general question about a carbide lamp in general, how we get rid of the calcium hydroxide that's produced? We end up with a wet canister that contains, IIRC, a rather strong alkali.

Other than that, I personally think it'd be a very neat idea, the individual components are all relatively safe and non-flammable.