Can I run Surefire 200 lumen 9P bulb in 6P?

bigchelis

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I really like the throw characteristics of incan. I have a 6P that I run rechargeable protected cells that fully charged would be about 8.4v.

If I run the Surefire 200 lumen replacement bulb will I get the 200 lumens?

Also, will runtime be less than 10 minutes?
 

Outdoors Fanatic

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I really like the throw characteristics of incan. I have a 6P that I run rechargeable protected cells that fully charged would be about 8.4v.

If I run the Surefire 200 lumen replacement bulb will I get the 200 lumens?

Also, will runtime be less than 10 minutes?
Yes, but ONLY with the new AW IMR cells. Never try that with regular li-ions.
 

mdocod

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Maximum recommended continuous discharge rate for LiCo cells (that's protected li-ion in most cases) is 2C or 30 minutes, which for RCR123s means 1.2A give or take. The P91 draws ~2.65A on li-ion cells. At the load of a P91, most RCR123 size LiCo cells will just fall on their face. You might get 10-20 cycles out of them at 5 minutes per run before they would either explode or you would have to retire them.

Most Protected RCR123s will not even light up a P91 period, some will on multiple tapping of the tailcap to trick the PCB, this is not recommended as it's hard on the PCB and obviously means the cell is being used in a configuration that is beyond it's ideal maximum safe limit.

Always read manufacture recommended guidelines for usage on lithium-ion cells. If your source for RCR123s does not have any information available to you about the cells, I suggest not purchasing them from anymore. The power consumption of many of these lamps can be found in a sticky in the threads of interest... Or you can see most of the safe li-ion powered incandescent configurations in the "li-ion incan guide/chart" linked in my sig line :)

As Outdoors Fanatic said, you CAN use AWs new IMR16340 cells to do this configuration and it will be perfectly safe. Runtime would be around 10 minutes.


---------------

Oh.... you mentioned you wanted throw.. The P91 is a pure wall of floodlight, it's the last bulb you should consider if you want throw.

Try an HO-9 from LF on a pair of IMR16340s, it's not a bad combo. Ideally speaking, consider a KT2 kit to go with a pair of IMR16340s.
 

bigchelis

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Maximum recommended continuous discharge rate for LiCo cells (that's protected li-ion in most cases) is 2C or 30 minutes, which for RCR123s means 1.2A give or take. The P91 draws ~2.65A on li-ion cells. At the load of a P91, most RCR123 size LiCo cells will just fall on their face. You might get 10-20 cycles out of them at 5 minutes per run before they would either explode or you would have to retire them.

Most Protected RCR123s will not even light up a P91 period, some will on multiple tapping of the tailcap to trick the PCB, this is not recommended as it's hard on the PCB and obviously means the cell is being used in a configuration that is beyond it's ideal maximum safe limit.

Always read manufacture recommended guidelines for usage on lithium-ion cells. If your source for RCR123s does not have any information available to you about the cells, I suggest not purchasing them from anymore. The power consumption of many of these lamps can be found in a sticky in the threads of interest... Or you can see most of the safe li-ion powered incandescent configurations in the "li-ion incan guide/chart" linked in my sig line :)

As Outdoors Fanatic said, you CAN use AWs new IMR16340 cells to do this configuration and it will be perfectly safe. Runtime would be around 10 minutes.


---------------

Oh.... you mentioned you wanted throw.. The P91 is a pure wall of floodlight, it's the last bulb you should consider if you want throw.

Try an HO-9 from LF on a pair of IMR16340s, it's not a bad combo. Ideally speaking, consider a KT2 kit to go with a pair of IMR16340s.


I was thinking about that KT2 kit, but for that price do you know if it doubles the trow?

I searched here and found no reviews on it.
 

mdocod

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I was thinking about that KT2 kit, but for that price do you know if it doubles the trow?

I searched here and found no reviews on it.

It's a 1 inch reflector vs a 2.5 inch reflector... Yes, it makes a ton of difference in throwing power.

I have the same size turbohead on my M6 (comes stock, but with shock isolation), and have run a wide verity of bulbs, and also own a number of 26mm tactical lamps to compare to, watt for watt, the larger reflector makes a massive difference in reaching power.

The KT2 can take any of the standard "M3T/M4/M6" size bulbs, so you can play around with other options. On a pair of IMR16340s, you could run an MN16 (same output lumens wise as the P91, but concentrated much better into a beam). The bulb it comes with is basically an MN15 (most just ship with an MN15 now from what I hear), and you would basically be putting together something with the output of an M3T with the LOLA, but with a smaller body and less space consuming turbohead, less runtime though.

Eric
 

kz1000s1

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I've been using a P91 lamp in my M2 and a P90 in a Z2 powered by two 3.7V RCR123 cells for almost 3 years with no problems. They're Powerizer unprotected cells. They come off the charger at 4.02V and I'm careful to shut off the light as soon as it starts to dim, though rarely do I let them get that low. I've also used AW protected cells with the P90 without a problem, but haven't tried them with the P91.

I've never done a run-time test, though my guess would be somewhere around 10-12 minutes. It goes longer than I thought it would.

Although my lights have been fine, this combination requires cautious use.
 

mdocod

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I've been using a P91 lamp in my M2 and a P90 in a Z2 powered by two 3.7V RCR123 cells for almost 3 years with no problems. They're Powerizer unprotected cells. They come off the charger at 4.02V and I'm careful to shut off the light as soon as it starts to dim, though rarely do I let them get that low. I've also used AW protected cells with the P90 without a problem, but haven't tried them with the P91.

I've never done a run-time test, though my guess would be somewhere around 10-12 minutes. It goes longer than I thought it would.

Although my lights have been fine, this combination requires cautious use.

Is the 4.02V a typo (was it supposed to read "4.20?")

I'm curious to know how many cycles you think you have gotten out of those cells on the P91, and how deep your average cycle has been... If they are reading 4.02V coming off the charger then that would be a sign that they have taken a beating... (nearly ready for retirement)...
 

ampdude

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Of the old black Li-Co cells I've run P90's on RCr123a cells plenty of times. I don't recommend running a P91 on anything less than a P18500 though.
 

kz1000s1

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Is the 4.02V a typo (was it supposed to read "4.20?")

I'm curious to know how many cycles you think you have gotten out of those cells on the P91, and how deep your average cycle has been... If they are reading 4.02V coming off the charger then that would be a sign that they have taken a beating... (nearly ready for retirement)...

It's hard to say how many cycles they have. I keep topping them off every few weeks or less for over 2 years. They were 4.02 off of a Powerizer charger when they were new. There were were only a few times I used them long enough to dim and I would stop as soon as they did. I think the voltage was over 3V then, never down to the 2.5V minimum for them. Now I just checked one that was charged last night on an Ultrafire charger and it was 4.13V. There hasn't been any sign of reduced runtime or brightness. The ones that were used with the P90 were moved to the P91 and protected AW cells were then put in a G2 with the P90 for my wife to use. The P91's cells have been used constantly in my Novatac since and still work well.
 

Niconical

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I bought a brand new P91 recently, specifically for use in a 6P with 2xIMR16340.

Yes, it's small and bright, but after the initial wow factor wears off, it really isn't enough runtime.

Hopefully I'll find a use for the P91, but for now, it's on drawer duty.

In the meantime though, 2xIMR16340 with a P90 in a G2Z (tan) is my most used light. I know I could also run the P90 with 2 of AW's regular protected RCR123A, but I don't have any of them so the IMR16340 will do fine. The tough little IMR cells are probably sitting there in the light, whispering "Huh, P90, is that all ya got, punk?"
 
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RobertM

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I bought a brand new P91 recently, specifically for use in a 6P with 2xIMR16340.

Yes, it's small and bright, but after the initial wow factor wears off, it really isn't enough runtime.

Hopefully I'll find a use for the P91, but for now, it's on drawer duty.

In the meantime though, 2xIMR16340 with a P90 in a G2Z (tan) is my most used light. I know I could also run the P90 with 2 of AW's regular protected RCR123A, but I don't have any of them so the IMR16340 will do fine. The tough little IMR cells are probably sitting there in the light, whispering "Huh, P90, is that all ya got, punk?"

Running your P91 on IMR cells will probably reduce its life since it is being overdriven.

Time to go home from work now and play with my new LF IMR-9 lamp that should arrive today. :devil:
 

mdocod

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with 2xIMR16340 > P91
I estimate:
10 minutes runtime
~10-20 hours bulb life, depending on how frequently the cells are topped up and many other factors.

The IMR16340 cells, while capable of this high current stuff, are really working their little butts off at a ~6C discharge rate for the P91, so they aren't going to overdrive the bulb as much as say, a pair of regular li-ion (LiCo) 18650s would. So the bulb life on 2xIMR16340 cells is generally going to be better than it would be on a pair of big LiCo cells, but not as good as it might be on 3xCR123s. With that said, you can improve bulb life dramatically by only using IMR16340s on it that have ben rested over-night.

Eric
 

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