Charger/Battery compatability: Maha C9000 on top

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PeAK

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 30, 2009
Messages
238
This is just an update on results posted by TakeTheActive on a modified battery/charger compatability test to see how "smart" a charger is. The chargers under test include:

  1. Duracell CEF-23 Mobile Charger (completed)
  2. La Crosse BC-900 Charger (completed)
  3. Maha MH-C9000 Charger (completed)
  4. Rayovac PS-23B Charger (ongoing)
  5. Rayovac PS3 Charger (ongoing)
  6. Rayovac PS1 Charger (ongoing)
  7. Duracell CEF-20 Mini Charger (ongoing)
Turns out the Maha (from limited testing) is proving to have one of the best scores and algorithims confirming it's high recommendation within this forum.


No surprise, here:

TTA's modified test:
(Results are further down in BLUE)
​
TakeTheActive said:
\/
\/

  1. DISCHARGE approximately 100mAh from the cell
    - EASY with a MH-C9000 or BC-700 / BC-900 / BC-9009
    - Otherwise, requires a RESISTOR, DMM and STOPWATCH (Instructions TBD)
    .
  2. CHARGE the cell until JUST the point of termination on Charger X
    - 0.5C is recommended on an Adjustable Charge Rate Charger
    - Record the Charge Rate on a Fixed Rate Charger
    .
  3. DISCHARGE approximately 100mAh from the cell
    - EASY with a MH-C9000 or BC-700 / BC-900 / BC-9009
    - Otherwise, requires a RESISTOR, DMM and STOPWATCH
    .
  4. RE-CHARGE the cell until JUST the point of termination on Charger X
    - 0.5C is recommended on an Adjustable Charge Rate Charger
    - Record the Charge Rate on a Fixed Rate Charger
    .
  5. NOTE the Elapsed Time in minutes.
    - EASY with a MH-C9000 or BC-700 / BC-900 / BC-9009
    - Otherwise, check your STOPWATCH.
    .
  6. CALCULATE the Overcharge.
    • MH-C9000 or BC-700 / BC-900 / BC-9009:
      - (CHARGE IN / 100mAh) - 1 x 100
    • Fixed Rate Charger:
      - (Charge Rate x (Elapsed Time / 60) / 100mAh) - 1 x 100
\/
\/
​
Click to expand...


TTA's Charger Results
(lower % is better)
​
TakeTheActive said:
Test #1: (Complete)
Duracell CEF-23 Mobile Charger w/NEW Durabrid 2000mAh LSD #1 (1948mAh last C9000 Break-In)
  • CHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA until 'Done'
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 212mAh
  • CHARGED in CEF-23 until Green LED On: 43 minutes (550mA x 43/60hr = 394mAh) 86% Overcharge ['Watermark' Primer Charge]
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 201mAh
  • CHARGED in CEF-23 until Green LED On: 33 minutes (550mA x 33/60hr = 303mAh) 50% Overcharge

Test #2: (Complete)
La Crosse BC-900 Charger w/Durabrid 2000mAh LSD #1 (1948mAh last C9000 Break-In)
  • TOPPED OFF in CEF-23 (Test #1)
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 200mAh
  • CHARGED in BC-900 @ 1000mA until 'Full': 313mAh / 18 minutes / 57% Overcharge ['Watermark' Primer Charge]
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 201mAh
  • CHARGED in BC-900 @ 1000mA until 'Full': 289mAh / 17 minutes / 44% Overcharge
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 201mAh
  • CHARGED in BC-900 @ _700mA until 'Full': 301mAh / 25 minutes / 50% Overcharge
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 200mAh
  • CHARGED in BC-900 @ _500mA until 'Full': 306mAh / 37 minutes / 53% Overcharge
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 206mAh
  • CHARGED in BC-900 @ _200mA until 'Full': 275mAh / 86 minutes / 33% Overcharge
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 204mAh
  • CHARGED in BC-900 @ 1500mA until 'Full': 326mAh / 13 minutes / 60% Overcharge
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 200mAh
  • CHARGED in BC-900 @ 1800mA until 'Full': 320mAh / 10 minutes / 60% Overcharge

Test #3: (Complete)
Maha MH-C9000 Charger w/NEW Durabrid 2000mAh LSD #1 (1948mAh last C9000 Break-In)
  • TOPPED OFF in BC-900 (Test #2)
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 222mAh
  • CHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA until 'Done': 268mAh / 18 minutes / 21% Overcharge
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 200mAh
  • CHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA until 'Done': 202mAh / 14 minutes / 01% Overcharge
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 200mAh
  • CHARGED in C9000 @ 700mA until 'Done': 220mAh / 21 minutes / 10% Overcharge
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 220mAh
  • CHARGED in C9000 @ 500mA until 'Done': 252mAh / 33 minutes / 15% Overcharge
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 201mAh
  • CHARGED in C9000 @ 200mA until 'Done': 375mAh / 125 minutes / 87% Overcharge
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 200mAh
  • CHARGED in BC-900 @ _200mA until 'Full': xxxmAh / yy minutes / zz% Overcharge
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 214mAh
  • CHARGED in C9000 @ 1500mA until 'Done': 171mAh / 7 minutes / 20% UNDERcharge
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 200mAh
  • CHARGED in C9000 @ 1800mA until 'Done': 181mAh / 6 minutes / 10% UNDERcharge
...
Click to expand...

The Duracell Mobile Charger seems to terminate soundly, as well, and partly confirms the general consensus that it stays cools and does not overcharge. For the Maha, the worst result is with a 200mA charge current where the amount of charge put in was almost double what was taken out.
 
Last edited:
Sorry PeAK, but you were both TOO SLOW *AND* TOO FAST!:oops:

Too slow in the fact that on 11/22/09 in Post #13 of the Test for how well batteries suit your charger thread, I replied that I *HAD* indeed missed the 'Watermark' concept :eek: and thus decided to propose *MY* RE-WORDING of the parameters (for your approval) :bow:. I also stated in my postscript that a FIXED 100mAh DISCHARGE might be too small and 10% of the cell's rated CAPACITY might work better. Receiving no response from you, yea or nea, I went ahead and began using my 'revised' parameters. ;)

Too fast in the fact that Tests #5 and 6 ran well past midnight and I was just too tired to update my Test Results last night / earlier THIS morning!. :sleepy:

Test Parameters:
(Revised: 11/22/09)​

Since the user may own and actively use more than one charger, it's CRITICAL that the 'Watermark' be reached BOTH TIMES in this 'Experiment' on the SAME charger.

NOTE: To save time, select what you believe to be a FULLY CHARGED cell. WHERE it was charged does not matter at this point.
  1. DISCHARGE approximately 10% of the Rated CAPACITY from the cell
    - EASY with a MH-C9000 or BC-700 / BC-900 / BC-9009
    - Otherwise, requires a RESISTOR, DMM and STOPWATCH (Instructions TBD)
    .
  2. CHARGE the cell until JUST the point of termination on Charger X ['Watermark' Primer Charge]
    - 0.5C is recommended on an Adjustable Charge Rate Charger
    - Record the Charge Rate on a Fixed Rate Charger
    .
  3. DISCHARGE approximately 10% of the Rated CAPACITY from the cell
    - EASY with a MH-C9000 or BC-700 / BC-900 / BC-9009
    - Otherwise, requires a RESISTOR, DMM and STOPWATCH
    .
  4. RE-CHARGE the cell until JUST the point of termination on Charger X
    - 0.5C is recommended on an Adjustable Charge Rate Charger
    - Record the Charge Rate on a Fixed Rate Charger
    .
  5. NOTE the Elapsed Time in minutes.
    - EASY with a MH-C9000 or BC-700 / BC-900 / BC-9009
    - Otherwise, check your STOPWATCH.
    .
  6. CALCULATE the Overcharge / UNDERcharge.
    • MH-C9000 or BC-700 / BC-900 / BC-9009:
      - (CHARGE IN / 'Watermark' Primer Charge) - 1 x 100
    • Fixed Rate Charger:
      - (Charge Rate x (Elapsed Time / 60) / 'Watermark' Primer Charge) - 1 x 100

Note: The "overcharge" is relative to the small amount of charge that was taken out and not relative to total charge of the battery (i.e. capacity). So if I take a cup out of a gallon container but need to put back in two cups, then the overcharge will 1x (i.e. 100% more) the amount I took out.​

Test Results:
(as of: 12/01/09)​

TEST PARAMETERS CHANGED (11/22/09):
  • DISCHARGE amount changed from 100mAh to 10% of published Capacity
  • 'PRIMING' "Watermark" CHARGE on Charger X added before actual Overcharge / UNDERcharge measurement

Test #1: (Complete)
Duracell CEF-23 Mobile Charger w/NEW Durabrid 2000mAh LSD #1 (1948mAh last C9000 Break-In)
  • CHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA until 'Done'
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 212mAh
  • CHARGED in CEF-23 until Green LED On: 43 minutes (550mA x 43/60hr = 394mAh) 86% Overcharge ['Watermark' Primer Charge]
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 201mAh
  • CHARGED in CEF-23 until Green LED On: 33 minutes (550mA x 33/60hr = 303mAh) 50% Overcharge

Test #2: (Complete)
La Crosse BC-900 Charger w/Durabrid 2000mAh LSD #1 (1948mAh last C9000 Break-In)
  • TOPPED OFF in CEF-23 (Test #1)
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 200mAh
  • CHARGED in BC-900 @ 1000mA until 'Full': 313mAh / 18 minutes / 57% Overcharge ['Watermark' Primer Charge]
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 201mAh
  • CHARGED in BC-900 @ 1000mA until 'Full': 289mAh / 17 minutes / 44% Overcharge
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 201mAh
  • CHARGED in BC-900 @ _700mA until 'Full': 301mAh / 25 minutes / 50% Overcharge
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 200mAh
  • CHARGED in BC-900 @ _500mA until 'Full': 306mAh / 37 minutes / 53% Overcharge
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 206mAh
  • CHARGED in BC-900 @ _200mA until 'Full': 275mAh / 86 minutes / 33% Overcharge
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 204mAh
  • CHARGED in BC-900 @ 1500mA until 'Full': 326mAh / 13 minutes / 60% Overcharge
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 200mAh
  • CHARGED in BC-900 @ 1800mA until 'Full': 320mAh / 10 minutes / 60% Overcharge

Test #3: (Complete)
Maha MH-C9000 Charger w/NEW Durabrid 2000mAh LSD #1 (1948mAh last C9000 Break-In)
  • TOPPED OFF in BC-900 (Test #2)
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 222mAh
  • CHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA until 'Done': 268mAh / 18 minutes / 21% Overcharge ['Watermark' Primer Charge]
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 200mAh
  • CHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA until 'Done': 202mAh / 14 minutes / 01% Overcharge
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 200mAh
  • CHARGED in C9000 @ 700mA until 'Done': 220mAh / 21 minutes / 10% Overcharge
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 220mAh
  • CHARGED in C9000 @ 500mA until 'Done': 252mAh / 33 minutes / 15% Overcharge
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 201mAh
  • CHARGED in C9000 @ 200mA until 'Done': 375mAh / 125 minutes / 87% Overcharge
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 200mAh
  • CHARGED in C9000 @ _200mA until 'Full': 315mAh / 105 minutes / 58% Overcharge [RETESTED after another 1000mA 'Primer' - Hmmm :thinking:]
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 214mAh
  • CHARGED in C9000 @ 1500mA until 'Done': 171mAh / 7 minutes / 20% UNDERcharge
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 200mAh
  • CHARGED in C9000 @ 1800mA until 'Done': 181mAh / 6 minutes / 10% UNDERcharge

Test #4: (Complete)
Rayovac PS-23B Charger w/NEW Durabrid 2000mAh LSD #1 (1948mAh last C9000 Break-In)
  • TOPPED OFF in C9000 (Test #3)
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 206mAh
  • CHARGED in PS-23B until Green LED On: 16 minutes (1300mA x 16/60hr = 347mAh) 68% Overcharge ['Watermark' Primer Charge] NOTE: Noticeably Warm!
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 200mAh
  • CHARGED in PS-23B until Green LED On: 18 minutes (1300mA x 18/60hr = 390mAh) 95% Overcharge [101°F]

Test #5: (ABORTED!!! 60 minutes / 150% Overcharge / 98°F)
Rayovac PS3 Charger w/NEW Durabrid 2000mAh LSD #1 (1948mAh last C9000 Break-In)
  • TOPPED OFF in PS-23B (Test #4)
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 200xmAh
  • CHARGED in PS3 until Red LED Off: xx minutes (500mA x xx/60hr = yyymAh) zz% Overcharge ['Watermark' Primer Charge]
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for xxxmAh
  • CHARGED in PS3 until Red LED Off: xx minutes (500mA x xx/60hr = yyymAh) zz% Overcharge

Test #6: (ABORTED!!! 150 minutes / 150% Overcharge / 104°F)
Rayovac PS1 Charger w/NEW Durabrid 2000mAh LSD #1 (1948mAh last C9000 Break-In)
  • TOPPED OFF in PS3 (Test #5)
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 200mAh
  • CHARGED in PS1 until Red LED Off: xx minutes (200mA x xx/60hr = yyymAh) zz% Overcharge ['Watermark' Primer Charge]
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for xxxmAh
  • CHARGED in PS1 until Red LED Off: xx minutes (200mA x xx/60hr = yyymAh) zz% Overcharge

Test #7: (CANCELLED - Gave charger to my Dad)
Duracell CEF-20 Mini Charger w/NEW Durabrid 2000mAh LSD #1 (1948mAh last C9000 Break-In)​
Too bad there's so little interest / member participation in this topic - I find the results enlightening.
 
Last edited:
Another nail in the coffin for the slow-charging-is-best fairy tale.
 
mfm said:
Another nail in the coffin for the slow-charging-is-best fairy tale.
Click to expand...

One of the more interesting results was the 200 mA default charge rate test used on the Lacrosse BC-900:
Test #2: (Complete)
La Crosse BC-900 Charger w/Durabrid 2000mAh LSD #1 (1948mAh last C9000 Break-In)
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 206mAh
  • CHARGED in BC-900 @ _200mA until 'Full': 275mAh / 86 minutes / 33% Overcharge
The level of overcharge indicates that the negative delta-V termination method was used. Perhaps the 86 minutes that it took to charge the battery was not enough time to heat up the unit to cause the infamous MOSFET to lock up. It be interesting to repeat this test on other units with different revision numbers. TTA, which revision was tested ?

PeAk
 
TakeTheActive said:
Sorry PeAK, but you were both TOO SLOW *AND* TOO FAST!

Too slow in the fact that on 11/22/09 in Post #13 of the Test for how well batteries suit your charger thread, I replied that I *HAD* indeed missed the 'Watermark' concept :eek: and thus decided to propose *MY* RE-WORDING of the parameters (for your approval) :bow:. I also stated in my postscript that a FIXED 100mAh DISCHARGE might be too small and 10% of the cell's rated CAPACITY might work better. Receiving no response from you, yea or nea, I went ahead and began using my 'revised' parameters. ;)

Too fast in the fact that Tests #5 and 6 ran well past midnight and I was just too tired to update my Test Results last night / earlier THIS morning!.
.
.
.
Too bad there's so little interest / member participation in this topic - I find the results enlightening.
Click to expand...

My bad...I saw your results posted for the first three chargers for the last few days and thought it be would be neat to share your early results. The change in parameters (from 5% discharge to 10%), did not seem to alter the results for the first three chargers very much...and it shouldn't. Thanks for burning the midnight oil.

I echo your comments about the small level of participation but I think this simple test will lead to improved "smart" NiMH chargers. The least it will do is give you peace of mind when you plug batteries into that "shiny" new charger waiting for you under the tree.

PeAK
 
Last edited:
PeAK said:
One of the more interesting results was the 200 mA default charge rate test used on the Lacrosse BC-900:
Test #2: (Complete)
La Crosse BC-900 Charger w/Durabrid 2000mAh LSD #1 (1948mAh last C9000 Break-In)
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 206mAh
  • CHARGED in BC-900 @ _200mA until 'Full': 275mAh / 86 minutes / 33% Overcharge
Click to expand...

I'm more impressed by the NEAR SPOT ON ACCURACY of the C9000 @ 1000mA! :twothumbs
TakeTheActive said:
...Test #3: (Complete)
Maha MH-C9000 Charger w/NEW Durabrid 2000mAh LSD #1 (1948mAh last C9000 Break-In)
  • DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 200mAh
  • CHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA until 'Done': 202mAh / 14 minutes / 01% Overcharge
Click to expand...
PeAK said:
...The level of overcharge indicates that the negative delta-V termination method was used. Perhaps the 86 minutes that it took to charge the battery was not enough time to heat up the unit to cause the infamous MOSFET to lock up...
Click to expand...
TakeTheActive said:
Just from my (extensive?) reading of the CPF 'Batteries Included' Archives, I tend to feel that *EVERY* current La Crosse BC-900 / BC-9009 has the potential to experience a MOSFET LOCKUP and thus reach a 'Meltdown' condition.

IMHO, it has NOTHING to do with the:
  1. Charge Rate selected
    .
  2. Cells being CHARGED
...but more on microprocessor 'noise' and/or (LACK OF) MOSFET headroom... :thinking:
Click to expand...

PeAK said:
...It be interesting to repeat this test on other units with different revision numbers. TTA, which revision was tested ?
Click to expand...
v33
 
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