coming over from the dark side

[e-ville]

monday i bought an incan G2, i liked it so much that i bought a G3 and a 6P yesterday.

now my question is, What is the absolute most powerful incan drop in for either the P60 or P90 and what kind of cells would i need to run with them?

i use my lights for work and require the most throw and illumination i can get, but they are only used for short blasts of a few seconds, and MAYBE a minute or two at most

im looking to do an led drop in on one of the lights and a incan upgrade for one of the other two. any ideas for the newb??

 

[herbicide]

The one with the most output would probably be a 22W axial in a fivemega socket set. you can squeeze that into a 9p if it'll run off 16340s.

 

[Petersen]

other option could also be the 500 Lumens IMR-9 LA from Lumens Factory.

 

[RichS]

The absolute brightest with no regard to runtime would be fivemega's G4 D26 SUNLIGHT for $urefire with a 35W WA1185 and 3xIMR 16340s in a 9P. This will give you about 7-8 minutes of runtime.

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

The absolute brightest with no regard to runtime would be fivemega's G4 D26 SUNLIGHT for $urefire with a 35W WA1185 and 3xIMR 16340s in a 9P. This will give you about 7-8 minutes of runtime.

Try a P91 or a Lumens Factory IMR-9 on two 16340 IMR cells from AW, not as bright as G4 D26 Sunlight by Fivemega, but you don't need to own a 9P or buying adapters/spare parts. Just pop in either lamp assembly into your current 6P and slide in those IMR cells and you're good to go.

 

[mrartillery]

Try a P91 or a Lumens Factory IMR-9 on two 16340 IMR cells from AW, not as bright as G4 D26 Sunlight by Fivemega, but you don't need to own a 9P or buying adapters/spare parts. Just pop in either lamp assembly into your current 6P and slide in those IMR cells and you're good to go.

I have the IMR-9 in my solarforce L2 with 2x IMR16340's, its a nice setup, and is quite bright especially considering the size of the light. You should get around 10min runtime with it, but as youve stated i dont think thats much concern for you.

As for the D26 G4 sunlight, i plan on building one of these in a 9p "style" body eventually looks like itd be pretty cool, its probably kind of floody though, so you might be better going with a Lumens factory drop in or equivalent if youre wanting some throw as well.

 

[hoongern]

You should be aware of a couple things:

1) High power in a D26 module will not have much throw. I.e. The IMR-9, P91, G4 w/ WA1111/1185 all will be pretty floody. I think perhaps the D26/CL1794 (A custom-made bulb, about 900 lumens with 2xIMR16340s but currently under recall) may be throwier but I don't own any so I can't say.

2) You mentioned turning it on/off for just a second or two. If you don't use a soft-start (it ramps up the voltage to the bulb instead of hitting it with full voltage straight away), the life of the bulb will be greatly reduced as they experience the most stress when turning on.

3) The P91 is a risk when working with larger cell sizes (i.e. 18500 and above) - you're at risk of blowing the bulb (Some have had better luck than others).

4) The IMR-9 needs bigger cells to really perform well (It's still pretty bright on 16340s but much better on IMR18650s)

5) I find that after running these things even just a minute, they can get REALLY hot. (At least, my experience with the WA1111. The IMR-9 isn't so bad)

Anyway, here are my recommendations for the brightest:

"P60" (2x 3.7v IMR cells)
- Easiest: As mentioned - IMR-9 or P91. P91 for on-the-edge performance, IMR-9 for lower output but 'safer' & longer usage.
- FM D26-G4 Sunlight with WA1111 for about 900 bulb lumens, floody. This is actually what I'm using right now - it's pretty awesome
- FM D26-T1.5 with CL1794 bulb - I believe you should only use this on IMR16340s or ICR18650+s. No big IMRs, you'll flash it. (1794s currently not available)

"P90" (3x 3.7v IMR cells)
- FM D26-G4 Sunlight with WA1185 and 3xIMR16340 - very bright as well, although I think it doesn't provide much more over the WA1111, which I prefer to use with IMR18500s for longer runtime.
- FM D26-G4 Sunlight with FM1909 and 3xIMR18500 - VERY bright, I would think. I don't have this setup myself... But would be ~2000 bulb lumens

There may be more, but those are the ones I'm aware of. (Others please correct any of my facts if I'm wrong - as I'm also a recent player in the incan field!)

 

[nfetterly]

You should be aware of a couple things:

1) High power in a D26 module will not have much throw. I.e. The IMR-9, P91, G4 w/ WA1111/1185 all will be pretty floody. I think perhaps the D26/CL1794 (A custom-made bulb, about 900 lumens with 2xIMR16340s but currently under recall) may be throwier but I don't own any so I can't say.

The Carley 1794 bulb is a custom bulb that Carley made to FiveMega Specs. He ran out of the bulbs and allowed Nite to get Carley to make a second run (I went in for 10 bulbs) - there was an issue with the second run and the bulbs were faulty. Carley improved the metallurgy on the leads which had somehow impacted the glass. Carley should be delivering the new bulbs about now to Nite. THere were some still available. The bulb ROCKS, I use it in a 2x18650 body and a 2x16340 body. Very nice throw for a relatively small (fivemega) socket / head. Okay I generally use a LED at work, but if I know I'm going to be on a shutdown I swap over to the incan just because I love it. I also use the AW 3 level soft start in the tail.

 

[e-ville]

whoa, maybe i asked the wrong question first lol. im still a noob when it comes to all the codes for everything.

I know IMR is a cell but what does IMR stand for?

im assuming WA is a type of bulb. yes? no?

but i keep seeing G4 alot. i have no clue what this stands for lol

i know i will most likely mod the G3 and G2 since i have the speed holster for those. i was leaning towards incan for the G3 because of the extra cell.

is 9P the term for the 3 cell lights?? I know from looking at them that the G2 uses the P60 and the G3 being a 3 cell uses the P90

i also see D26 used alot, what is this code for?

sorry guys, and thanks for all of your help. i just want to do it right the first time so the first time i hit the button it doesnt go or maybe even the second time

 

[hoongern]

whoa, maybe i asked the wrong question first lol. im still a noob when it comes to all the codes for everything.

I know IMR is a cell but what does IMR stand for?

im assuming WA is a type of bulb. yes? no?

but i keep seeing G4 alot. i have no clue what this stands for lol

i know i will most likely mod the G3 and G2 since i have the speed holster for those. i was leaning towards incan for the G3 because of the extra cell.

is 9P the term for the 3 cell lights?? I know from looking at them that the G2 uses the P60 and the G3 being a 3 cell uses the P90

i also see D26 used alot, what is this code for?

sorry guys, and thanks for all of your help. i just want to do it right the first time so the first time i hit the button it doesnt go or maybe even the second time

Hahah, yeah, it can be a bit confusing at first.

IMR refers to the battery chemistry. I can't remember what the 'I' stands for (I think Lithium Ion), but with Lithium Ion batteries, there are a couple of different 'chemistries' which are used. The most common are those which are used in laptops, cellphones, and batteries like AW's black label cells. These are "ICR" cells, which use cobalt. IMR refers to lithium ions which use manganese. Then there's IFR which refer to LiFePO4 iron phosphate cells. You can read up more at battery university.

IMR cells are able to provide very high levels of power compared to ICR (Cobalt) cells, and they are also safe (no risk of exploding). Since many of the high power incandescent require high power levels (i.e. a WA1111 needs about 4amps of current), IMR cells are needed to supply the high need.

WA stands for Welch-Allyn, and they make light bulbs. CL stands for Carley-Lamps, another bulb maker (both of them mostly make medical bulbs). WA1111, WA1185, CL1909, CL1794, are all different types of light bulbs - in this case, we are referring to bi-pin bulbs which are bulbs with just 2 pins sticking out of them. G4 has to do with the specifications of the bulbs. G__, i.e. G4, G5, G6.35, etc. refers to the distance between the pin legs in mm. so G4 would have pin separation of 4mm. (The Surefire "G2" is just a model of their flashlight, nothing to do with the bulbs). Bulbs also have another specification, T__, i.e. T1, T1.5, T2.25, T2.5, etc. and this refers to the diameter of the bulb itself, in multiples of 1/8", so T1.5 bulb would be 0.1875 inches. (T stands for tubular)

9p is also a surefire model. P60 and P90 are terms normally used by Surefire to designate that they are used in a P head, The 6 and 9 refer to their working voltage - 6V (2xCR123) and 9V(3xCR123). The '0' is used for different lamp assemblies. In this case, they are the low output assemblies. In contrast, the P61 and P91 are the High output lamps. However, outside of surefire, we normally refer to these drop ins as D26 drop ins, as they have reflectors of 26mm. So, a D36 module would have a 36mm reflector.

The WA1111 (nominal 6V) and WA1185 (nominal 9.6V) are G4 bi-pin bulbs, and would need a G4 socket to fit in. One example is the FiveMega D26-G4 "Sunlight" module which accepts G4-type bulbs, and has a 26mm reflector for dropping into flashlights like the G2. The WA1111 is commonly driven on 2xIMR16340s or higher. The WA1185 is driven on 3xIMR16340s or higher.

The CL1794, as mentioned, is a custom made bulb for FiveMega, with a default voltage of 7volts (normally driven by 2xIMR16340), and fits into his D26-G2/T1.5 module.

You may want to check out Luxluthor's destructive incan bulb tests for tests of various bulbs.

BUT, if you just want to keep things simple, just get 2xIMR16340s (I suggest from AW), and either a P91 or IMR-9 module.

Hope this doesn't confuse you anymore!

 

[e-ville]

actually that helped me out tremendously, thank you. the IMR-9 drop in seems to be out of stock on lighthound.

i guess ill be PMing fivemega about the sunlight drop in!!

looks like ill be switching over to IMR cells too, i like the sound of "safe" cells. ive been using protected 16340's and 18650 LI-Ions in all of my lights.

i also have a question about chargers, by looking at them it seems that most of the "smarts" are in the batteries themselves and that the chargers are more or less cradles with contacts in them, if i get IMR's do i have to get a different charger??

 

[hoongern]

actually that helped me out tremendously, thank you. the IMR-9 drop in seems to be out of stock on lighthound.

i guess ill be PMing fivemega about the sunlight drop in!!

looks like ill be switching over to IMR cells too, i like the sound of "safe" cells. ive been using protected 16340's and 18650 LI-Ions in all of my lights.

i also have a question about chargers, by looking at them it seems that most of the "smarts" are in the batteries themselves and that the chargers are more or less cradles with contacts in them, if i get IMR's do i have to get a different charger??

I should probably mention a bit more about IMRs. They don't explode, but that doesn't make them completely "safe". If you happen to somehow short one out, you can expect something to burn. Just a couple weeks ago, I had an incident where my IMRs shorted out in the flashlight, and melted 2 springs, because they're capable of such high currents. I had to write off the cells as one of them had leaked.

And actually, here's some advice for you, since you'll probably be playing with drop ins: ALWAYS ALWAYS remove the batteries first before changing lamp assemblies/drop-ins. You'll save yourself the trouble of having melted springs!

IMR cells generally have lower capacities than the ICR cells. If you compare the 18650 cells, ICR has 2600mAh, while IMR only has 1600mAh. That's the payoff for having high current capacity and non-explosive chemistry. (However, the capacity ratings are normally done at lower discharge rates. If you're discharging the cells at very high rates, they normally have higher capacity than the ICR cells)

Not sure which charger you have, but my Ultrafire WF-139 has no problem charging my IMR cells. Batteries aren't smart - even protected ICRs only have protection against over-discharge/over-current. IMRs have no protection. You have to watch out to make sure you don't run their voltage too far down - change them the moment you notice your bulb dimming. The charger has to be smart, ideally using the CC/CV algorithm. (Most cheap ones don't)

 

[e-ville]

i probably should have asked where is the best place to buy IMR cells too, batteryjunction is down and out for a little while and lighthound doesnt seem to have any listed

sorry if im getting annoying

 

[hoongern]

i probably should have asked where is the best place to buy IMR cells too, batteryjunction is down and out for a little while and lighthound doesnt seem to have any listed

sorry if im getting annoying

We're all here to learn and share

I personally get my IMRs straight from AW in his CPFMP thread, but they are also on lighthound, the red color cells on this page.

What are you planning on getting? Just make sure you don't make any mistakes - I made a few and ended up spending more money than I planned on, when I first got into incans!

 

[e-ville]

woops, i usually say something and then look and find what im looking for.

i was planning on doing either the IMR-9 drop in and some imr123a's or the sunlight drop in

i honestly think 500 lumen will be more than enough for me, but to understand youd have to know me, bad habits of being a fighter are that i get power hungry easily haha

would i need a soft start for something like the IMR9? and it only lists runtimes for 2x 123's and 2x 18650's

would there be an issue running 3x 123's in say the G3?

Or possibly even the EO-9 for a little more balance between power and runtime, after thinking some more about it. I kind of dont want to take a flashlight designed to be simple and problem free and turn it into the opposite.

but then again, who says i have to buy only 1, i do have 3 hosts sitting here right now!

 

[hoongern]

woops, i usually say something and then look and find what im looking for.

i was planning on doing either the IMR-9 drop in and some imr123a's or the sunlight drop in

i honestly think 500 lumen will be more than enough for me, but to understand youd have to know me, bad habits of being a fighter are that i get power hungry easily haha

would i need a soft start for something like the IMR9? and it only lists runtimes for 2x 123's and 2x 18650's

would there be an issue running 3x 123's in say the G3?

Or possibly even the EO-9 for a little more balance between power and runtime, after thinking some more about it. I kind of dont want to take a flashlight designed to be simple and problem free and turn it into the opposite.

but then again, who says i have to buy only 1, i do have 3 hosts sitting here right now!

The IMR-9 is ok on 2x16340, although you should be aware that it's not close to 500 lumens. 500 lumens is only achievable when you use 2xIMR18650. You won't *need* a soft-start, although it always helps to lengthen bulb lifetime.

if you want to run it on the G3, you should use 2xIMR18500. Don't use 3x16340! It would probably flash it (Although it hasn't really been tested, so one wouldn't know, but it's definitely not designed for 3 cell usage).

If you haven't checked it out yet, look at http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=235143 for beamshots of various drop ins.

All the best! You may want to wait and see what the others say first.

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

i probably should have asked where is the best place to buy IMR cells too, batteryjunction is down and out for a little while and lighthound doesnt seem to have any listed

sorry if im getting annoying

I buy all my IMR cells and lamp assemblies directly from Lumens Factory. They offer great customer service and dirty cheap shipping costs to anywhere in the world. Check it out: www.lumensfactory.com

Cheers!

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

The IMR-9 is ok on 2x16340, although you should be aware that it's not close to 500 lumens. 500 lumens is only achievable when you use 2xIMR18650. You won't *need* a soft-start, although it always helps to lengthen bulb lifetime.

if you want to run it on the G3, you should use 2xIMR18500. Don't use 3x16340! It would probably flash it (Although it hasn't really been tested, so one wouldn't know, but it's definitely not designed for 3 cell usage).

If you haven't checked it out yet, look at http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=235143 for beamshots of various drop ins.

All the best! You may want to wait and see what the others say first.

That is just not possible. Stock SureFire lights only accepts 17mm cells. He'd need to get a bored out SureFire "C" body tube from ElectronGuru (it's not possible to bore a G2/G3 body, only metal SureFire light such as the 6P, 9P, C2 or C3) or a Leef or Fivemega body tube. Unfortunately, there is no 17mm IMR cell yet. So no 17500...