Copper tape or Arctic Silver 5?

[Noctis]

Both would be nice, but I need to get the proper ratio of these right.

My copper tape is the 3M copper foil shielding tape with adhesive on one side. I suspect that I'm using too much Arctic Silver 5 and it's interfering with thermal transfer.

I'm currently running a Nailbender SST-90 P60 direct drive module on an IMR 18650 cell. This setup generates a massive amount of heat, and the hollow pill simply isn't a good heatsink, thus I need the best possible setup for good thermal transfer.

I currently have AS5 on the pill and reflector, copper tape wrapped around that, and more AS5 on top of the tape.

I'm wondering if too thick layers of AS5 might be detrimental to heat transfer, and if I could say, skip a step. I was thinking of skipping AS5 on the module itself and simply wrapping the module with enough tape so that I really have to jam the module inside the head. I would then put an extremely thin layer of AS5 on top of the copper tape.

As it stands right now, I've been toying around with the ratio and have several layers of AS5 on the inside of the head. The problem is that while the light has been on for a little while(20+ seconds), the head barely feels warm while the module is hot to the touch.

I'm wondering if Milkyspit was right in that good thermal contact works better than AS5.

 

[^Gurthang]

I'm wondering if the adhesive copper foil is holding in heat and interferring w/ the AS5. Have you tried removing the adhesive? I'd try that then use a thin layer of AS5 on the drop-in and the host receiver area. I did a thermal transfer test as part of my SP-6 review and got the best heat sinking when the drop-in was shimmed VERY tight. Hope this helps.

 

[Noctis]

I'm wondering if the adhesive copper foil is holding in heat and interferring w/ the AS5. Have you tried removing the adhesive? I'd try that then use a thin layer of AS5 on the drop-in and the host receiver area. I did a thermal transfer test as part of my SP-6 review and got the best heat sinking when the drop-in was shimmed VERY tight. Hope this helps.

Hmm, I'm not sure exactly HOW to remove the adhesive. I'm guessing that scraping it off with a razor wouldn't get me very far, and I doubt isopropyl alcohol will do much.

Some say the adhesive isn't thermally conductive, others say the tape helps.

 

[Norm]

You could try combining this method with your arctic silver then you wouldn't have to worry about the adhesive.
Improving heat sinking on P60 style drop ins.
Norm

 

[1 what]

I've used the Cu tape you ask about and am not impressed with it for heat transfer. Also the Adhesive is not very good.
I've found the 3M Al tape to be much better for heat transfer (plus you need fewer layers as it's much thicker and that might be part of the reason that it's more efficent). It also has a much better adhesive. It comes in 40mm width which is much more useful than the 10mm Cu tape.
These days I use the Cu tape where I want a thin conductor with reasonable current handling capacity. Soldering to it is very easy.

 

[Noctis]

Not sure why I'm shying away from the soda can method.

Could be because I'm scared of cutting myself, because I have to remove the "printed" layer off, or because aluminum simply seems inferior to copper for me.

In any case, I've removed the AS5 and wrapped the module with a lot of copper tape and had to cram it inside.

It gets warm enough to feel it at around 20 secs with a Li-Co cell. Gonna try again in the morning with the IMR.

 

[purelite]

I really dont have alot of experience in modding and such , but I have done a cpl at home emitter swaps and such and wrap my P60s in Alum either thick foil or soda can pieces. I would like to get ahold of some copper tape but havnt found any locally yet . Is this stuff available at Home Depot or Lowes or other hardware stores?

I do know with thermal paste that less is more. I have done some research on here on applying Arctic under emiiters and the consensus is a thin layer performs much better than glopping on thick .

It sounds like you are using way too much of the stuff

I have to ask, how do you keep the paste from getting all over the dropin and host and making an absolute mess of everything? If you have layers of it and then a tight fit with tape wrapped doesnt it squirt out all over the place ?

 

[jorn]

I really dont have alot of experience in modding and such , but I have done a cpl at home emitter swaps and such and wrap my P60s in Alum either thick foil or soda can pieces. I would like to get ahold of some copper tape but havnt found any locally yet . Is this stuff available at Home Depot or Lowes or other hardware stores?

I do know with thermal paste that less is more. I have done some research on here on applying Arctic under emiiters and the consensus is a thin layer performs much better than glopping on thick .

It sounds like you are using way too much of the stuff

I have to ask, how do you keep the paste from getting all over the dropin and host and making an absolute mess of everything? If you have layers of it and then a tight fit with tape wrapped doesnt it squirt out all over the place ?

agree, less is more when it comes to thermal paste. Use as little as possible. ( its made for filling microscopic gaps between a cpu and a heatsink.) If u use one droplet too mutch while bulding a pc, ull notice the temprature rises drastically.. I even use a razorblade to "shave off" unessesary paste when bulding high-end pc's.

Tried to use paste only between a mc-e dropin and host once, no more... what a mess, and i dident think it worked well. with a 0.3mm plate stuffed in my solarforce and a tiny bit of paste, i just managed to force the dropin into the host (using a hammer gently, haha). That made a big difference, and all the mess is between the host and the plate. No more messy fingers if i want to change dropin. I need to use pliers to get it out of there now tough

 

[kramer5150]

I'm wondering if Milkyspit was right in that good thermal contact works better than AS5.

My understanding is that AS5 only works well when its used in thin applications. It can't replace a good tight fitting heatsink.

What host are you using? My 6P doesn't require that much. I use 2-3 layers of copper tape and with my MCE module, the pill is only a little warmer than the host body. I have also used thick AL foil and it works about as well as the copper tape at transferring heat.

I speculate the SST-90 (and the heat it generates) is just flat out too much for the P60 host design. It only has the thermal path, mass and emissive radiating capacity to dissipate so much heat. Its OK for short bursts though.

 

[Tally-ho]

Not sure why I'm shying away from the soda can method.

Could be because I'm scared of cutting myself, because I have to remove the "printed" layer off, or because aluminum simply seems inferior to copper for me.

I don't know if your soda cans are made of the same material as here in France, but here it is made of steel. There is a magnet logo on the top-side and a lign of text saying 'acier recyclable' = 'recyclable steel'

Thermal conductivity of steel is worst than for aluminum.

I tried the soda can mod and I was not very convinced/satisfied even if it was fun and interesting to have a try.

 

[purelite]

I see you wrap just the top part of the dropins Kramer . Right now I am just using extra thick aluminum foil but want to try copper but I would go all the way down the tapered section also. Is that much coverage unnecessary?

 

[Sgt. LED]

I am a solid soda can guy myself. The foil is too flimsy an the glue paste or artic silver is too messy. I change out drop-in's far too often in my hosts so all I use is the simple can. Clean and quick.
Would using arctic silver 5 would improve things a bit, probably, but good lord what a mess I would make.

 

[baterija]

I'm wondering if too thick layers of AS5 might be detrimental to heat transfer, and if I could say, skip a step.

My emphasis added. The answer is yes. People have already covered proper usage. Taking a step back the reason is because AS5 is basically an insulator. It's simply less insulating than air. You want to maximize metal to metal contact where you can.

 

[Norm]

I don't know if your soda cans are made of the same material as here in France, but here it is made of steel.

The soft drink cans here in Australia and in the US are aluminium.
Norm

 

[^Gurthang]

Copper tape / foil. Have you looked for non-adhesive type at a craft store or stained glass supplier? They [at least around here] stock several thickness.

Aluminum soda can. My best results have come after burnishing the strip using a heavy burnishing tool taking care to work the edges. This helps when getting a really tight fit. I use a VERY tiny amount of thermal X-fer compound as a lube to help get the drop-in dropped in....

 

[Justin Case]

Which 3M tape? 3M thermal tape 9882, 9885, and 9990 have a thermal conductivity of 0.6 W/m-K. Arctic Silver 5 compound thermal conductance is advertised as 350000 W/m^2-C for an 0.001 inch thick layer. That calculates to 8.89 W/m-K thermal conductivity.

I've tabulated some thermal conductivities here.

 

[Yoda4561]

My emphasis added. The answer is yes. People have already covered proper usage. Taking a step back the reason is because AS5 is basically an insulator. It's simply less insulating than air. You want to maximize metal to metal contact where you can.

+1 Thermal greases are used because it's practically impossible to get a perfect metal to metal mating surface. Ideally you as much direct metal contact as possible, and use thermal grease to fill any microscopic air gaps.