CR1,2,3,BANG! (incident description & questions)

[jdhunter]

I'm a development engineer for a fiberoptics applications company. Our pioneer LED product is basically a high-end LD flashlight with a port to receive the input post of a fiberoptic scope for looking around in body cavities with. The engine is a LUX III and one of Wayne's DownBoy (now Son Of Badboy) converters built to provide 611 milliV. It's powered with two CR123A primary cells. Naturally we use and resell the cheapo variety available from www sources for 99 cents (we wrap our own label around them.) We've just had an incident with them in the shop.

One unit in production wasn't working reliably. (I now presume it probably had some intermittent dead short.) While it was in a won't-work mood the technician lost track of whether the clickie was on or off and set it aside - in the tub with other product in bubblewrap baggies. Some time (10?, 15?, 20? minutes) later there was some noise (hiss?) and smoke from burning plastic (the baggie) and then a bang with flame. Techie swatted the fire out.

Post mortem: the battery to the rear was incinerated and the bottom bulged, the tailcap switch was deformed, charred and partially extruded. The forward battery though singed still has 3+ Volts!

I cut the burned battery apart. I found: pressure relief valve body full of slag, black powder, aluminum mesh, center anode... I was sort of looking for the protective electronics which I understand from the general literature is supposed to be the magic stabilizing influence to civilize these things. I don't see anything that looks like any electronic component in the remains.

SO, my questions to the forum are, does anybody know just what form the protection electronics takes and where is it in the structure of the cell? And, of course, is it an unfortunate fact of commercial life that the China cheapies (Tenergy, Powerizer are the two names I've seen in our stock) omit the feature and hope for the best? Does anyone know of a cutaway diagram that truly gets into design details?

Thank you.

J. D. Hunter

 

[asdalton]

Using cheap 123A lithium cells is playing with fire, literally. The danger is greatest when using them with multi-cell lights, because as you noted, one cell can become completely discharged while the other continues to push current through the circuit and through the bad cell.

 

[IcantC]

Thought I do not have the diagrams you requested, I agree with asdalton. You and your company were lucky no one was hurt. Could have injured someneone or even more people had it been sitting among other cells.

Tell them to use US made cells!

Also check my sig.

 

[Monocrom]

Another one of these threads?!?!

When are people going to learn.... Never use cheap CR123 cells!!!

Buy Made in America cells. Those are actually put together with Q.C. in mind. Want to save some money? Buy quality cells in bulk, over the internet. CR123 cells are too potentially dangerous to cheap out. If cost really is that much of an issue, use a light that runs on a different type of cell. Worst thing that'll happen with a cheap-@$$ AA cell is that it'll leak. Unllike a cheap-@$$ CR123 cell.... that'll explode!

 

[jdhunter]

OK, these cells are a pair dedicated to testing product. They had identical service. The "surviving" (not utterly destroyed) one has a full charge by meter but doesn't seem to be able to carry a load. I've read that Lithiums do that...

My biggest question is about the on-board protective circuit. My understanding has been that that feature precisely is what made these things retailable and shippable. Now I'm reading that the cheapies don't have any protection. I'm just trying to reach a correct verdict here.

 

[LED61]

Your question really belongs in the battery forum, maybe a moderator can move it there. In there, there are more knowledgeable persons like SilverFox that will be able to give you more insight.

 

[SureAddicted]

One of my fave retailers got a shipment of Panasonic CR123's. Literally, hundreds of these things, I think he might of found out the hard way but the cells were bad. They couldn't even light up a torch. Testing it against a DMM showed it has the right voltage and all, but it just wouldn't power up anything. Maybe its an isolated case, but i thought Panasonic was a decent brand. He had to go through testing each one in a torch to see if its any good or not. He gave me a dozen for free, probably couldn't wait to see the back of them.

 

[IcantC]

Thought I do not have the diagrams you requested, I agree with asdalton. You and your company were lucky no one was hurt. Could have injured someneone or even more people had it been sitting among other cells.

Tell them to use US made cells!

Also check my sig.

OK, these cells are a pair dedicated to testing product. They had identical service. The "surviving" (not utterly destroyed) one has a full charge by meter but doesn't seem to be able to carry a load. I've read that Lithiums do that...

My biggest question is about the on-board protective circuit. My understanding has been that that feature precisely is what made these things retailable and shippable. Now I'm reading that the cheapies don't have any protection. I'm just trying to reach a correct verdict here.

Nut sure if you checked the link in my sig, just one of the links from within the link

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=106242

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1381798#post1381798

 

[Monocrom]

OK, these cells are a pair dedicated to testing product. They had identical service. The "surviving" (not utterly destroyed) one has a full charge by meter but doesn't seem to be able to carry a load. I've read that Lithiums do that...

My biggest question is about the on-board protective circuit. My understanding has been that that feature precisely is what made these things retailable and shippable. Now I'm reading that the cheapies don't have any protection. I'm just trying to reach a correct verdict here.

Cheap CR123 cells, often Made in China, have spotty (at best) Q.C.

It's very likely that the cells used for testing were in fact, defective. I'm not saying that's exactly the issue. But generally speaking, if you see something that looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, you wouldn't be surprised to hear it say "quack."

Many of these cheap cells are made, then shipped out. And if a few of them are defective, well; who cares? Certainly not the foreign company that shipped them out.

 

[kromeke]

There is no "protection circuit" in primary lithium cells. There is (or should be) a Positive Temperature Coefficient (PTC) device on board.

Read a little about Duracell's here: http://www.duracell.com/oem/primary/Lithium/safety.asp

Don't risk using low end cells. They may not have a proper PTC or have other defects that render the PTC inoperative.

 

[Burgess]

I've seen a thread, here on CPF,

which shows (and discusses) some

so-called "Panasonic" CR123A batteries

which are Counterfeit !


The "give-away" (what to look for) was very slight,

but it had to do with a mis-spelled word on the cell.


Perhaps someone else here can help us with specifics.


:candle:
_

 

[bxstylez]

always check your batteries using a digital multimeter (DMM) to make sure both batteries are the same voltage to prevent these little explosions

.

 

[speshow]

Sorry, I'm just seeking some clarification. When we say low end do we mean titanium / battery station type? Or even lower?

 

[Monocrom]

Sorry, I'm just seeking some clarification. When we say low end do we mean titanium / battery station type? Or even lower?

Matt swears that his Titanium brand cells are made with good Q.C., in China. I've found him to be a very reputable individual. His rep. on CPF speaks for itself. Personally, I won't take any chances at all. I have gotten great results from mainly using Made in America, Surefire brand cells. (Yes, I know that a certain company makes the cells for Surefire). And to be honest, I'm not about to switch. But that's just me. I've found what works best for me, so I'm sticking to it.

Battery Station cells are now Made in America. There are probably a few older, Made in China B.S. cells floating around. So be sure to buy from a reputable Dealer. The change in policy was made after the owner of Battery Station saw one of those "CR123 Exploded" threads on CPF.... and it turned out the cells were Battery Station brand. To his credit, he did fix the problem.

Lower-end generally equals, Made in China primary cells. As far as rechargeables go, AW brand are Made in China; and considered by many (including myself) to be some of the best rechargeables out there.

Safest bet is to check the label wrapped around the CR123 cells. If it's made in America, it's a safe bet. (Key word being safe).

 

[IcantC]

Matt swears that his Titanium brand cells are made with good Q.C., in China. I've found him to be a very reputable individual. His rep. on CPF speaks for itself. Personally, I won't take any chances at all. I have gotten great results from mainly using Made in America, Surefire brand cells. (Yes, I know that a certain company makes the cells for Surefire). And to be honest, I'm not about to switch. But that's just me. I've found what works best for me, so I'm sticking to it.

Battery Station cells are now Made in America. There are probably a few older, Made in China B.S. cells floating around. So be sure to buy from a reputable Dealer. The change in policy was made after the owner of Battery Station saw one of those "CR123 Exploded" threads on CPF.... and it turned out the cells were Battery Station brand. To his credit, he did fix the problem.

Lower-end generally equals, Made in China primary cells. As far as rechargeables go, AW brand are Made in China; and considered by many (including myself) to be some of the best rechargeables out there.

Safest bet is to check the label wrapped around the CR123 cells. If it's made in America, it's a safe bet. (Key word being safe).

+1, his cells are now made in the US. It is better to spend a few extra cents/dollars to save your life/health. Buy some reputable batteries from a reputable source. There are ebay stores selling fake batteries.

This is one reason I hate loaning out any 2xCR123 lights. Often a person may use it in constant on mode, the battery dies and they do not turn it off. Many people see no need as the battery is "dead". This can lead to it going boom. So I only loan non CR123 lights to people.

 

[Art Vandelay]

It sounds like one battery had more of a charge than the other and it had to work too hard trying to charge the bad one and power the device. It sounds like it's the fault of the batteries.

Since you sell these, if you ever have to call the Fire Department because you have a bunch of these on fire, you must tell them what's burning because the fumes are toxic, and water can make the fire worse.

 

[kromeke]

I wouldn't have any reservations using Battery Station cells as they are now made in USA. The prices aren't bad either.

Low-end=cheap imports.

Cells made in Japan would qualify as better than low-end. Brand name cells would be better than low end in my book. Duracell, Energizer, Ray-o-vac, etc. I don't see any European made cells here in the US. They would probably be fine also.

 

[Stress_Test]

Personally, I won't take any chances at all. I have gotten great results from mainly using Made in America, Surefire brand cells. (Yes, I know that a certain company makes the cells for Surefire). And to be honest, I'm not about to switch. But that's just me. I've found what works best for me, so I'm sticking to it.

+1

I feel the same way.

After reading several of the "exploding cell" threads I've been hesitant about 123A lights. I finally got a P2D premium, but I'm going to stick with Surefire batteries.

My reasoning is, even if I have to pay more, it's worth it for safety if I'm carrying this light in my front pocket, only inches away from some very valuable body parts!!

 

[speshow]

For 2 cell lights I strictly use duracell AND I lockout the light after use but for one cell lights Ive bought a stack of titaniums. His should be pretty safe right?
Just a note... I used to take apart 223 batteries and wrap he bare cells for 2 cell lights but have since stopped that. Reason being I found brownish leakage and crystals on brand new energizer cells!
That can't be too safe can it? I opened 3packs and they all had the weird brown substance. Anyone know what it is?

 

[rotototo]

I cut the burned battery apart. I found: pressure relief valve body full of slag...

...SO, my questions to the forum are, does anybody know just what form the protection electronics takes and where is it in the structure of the cell?

To directly answer your question, CR123 cells, from any brand, do not have on board electronics - they rely on that physical pressure valve to prevent explosion.