Cree R2 anyone bought one yet?

[Mirko]

Good morning
One of my favorite sellers on Ebay started to advertise CREE R2 leds
both as drop in upgrades and new flashlights

The output is listed at 290-300 lumens

is that true?
Anyone got one yet?

worth the upgrade?
(will I get shorter battery duration ??)

thanks
Mirko

 

[adnj]

The R2 is Cree's most efficient bin but better runtime only if the output stays the same as what you have.

 

[half-watt]

Good morning
One of my favorite sellers on Ebay started to advertise CREE R2 leds
both as drop in upgrades and new flashlights...The output is listed at 290-300 lumens...
is that true?...anyone got one yet?

bought a couple of R2 drop-ins (may NOT be the same as what you've seen on eBay; i haven't looked on eBay for them) from John at Lighthound.com which arrived a couple of days ago.

one R2 drop-in is single mode to be used with a UNIQ "infinitely variable" tail cap switch; the other R2 drop-in is the five-mode with memory. both are* [see Note below] hosted in SolarForce L2 hosts.


the five mode R2 was bright (talkin' lux or peak brightness at the center of the "spot" here) on HI, but i was really expecting something more. however, it's spill was quite bright also, so, it might have a pretty high lumen value/rating.

i'm going to have to do a side-by-side "eyeball" comparison again.

my first side-by-side of the R2 hosted in a SolarForce L2 with Leef McClicky tailcap (i wanted the tail to be crenelated like the bezel) was to an unmodified SF G2L Nitrolon, two CreeP4 drop-in's and one CreeQ5 drop-in. these were hosted, respectively, in a a black G2L Nitrolon (like i said, unmodified!), a DesertTan SF G2 Nitrolon, a black SF G3 Nitrolon, a black SF G2 Nitrolon (with a SolarForce clickie tailcap).

the CreeQ5 appeared brighter in its center spot to the eye than the R2, but this could be b/c of the diff. in relfectors with the Q5 having a smooth reflector (complete w/classic Cree donuts and rings) while the R2 had a LOP/textured reflector. overall, the R2 looked brighter than the Q5 once one looked outside of the bright hotspot to the spillbeam area. the R2 also had a larger diameter hotspot than the Q5.

the only thing quantitative (since i don't yet own a light meter) i can say about them is the current draws (wait until you read the Q5)[anyone, please let me know how these numbers compare with other numbers that you've either seen or measured - i didn't dig out my old, but working Fluke for this, and instead used an old top-o-the-line, which ain't sayin' much, $60 RadioShack DMM to perform the current measurements]. oh,...fresh SF CR123A cells were used for the testing - each light gettin' fresh cells which max'd out the %SOC lights on a ZTS MB-1 tester and tested within 0.05VDC of each other on a DMM.

[NOTE: to really determine more accurate readings, i would have to place each drop-in in the exact same identical host, and make several disassembly-reassembly tests of each drop-in to take into account any inherent resistance in the host and any resistance that my manner of assembly contributed, and then average the current readings for five runs for each drop-in with disassembly and reassembly between each run for each drop-in. i didn't take the time to do this.]


stock/unmodified SF G2L Nitrolon = 400ma [the de facto standard]

CreeP4 (Mfr. claim of 750ma) in the DesertTan SF G2 Nitrolon host = 570ma

CreeP4 (Mfr. claim of 750ma) in the black SF G3 Nitrolon host = 450ma [hopefully, burn-time will be longer than in a 2-cell application]

SolarForce L2 host with a Leef McClicky tailcap having a SolarForce LC-5 five mode with memory Cree R2 drop-in: Lo=140ma, Med=360ma, Hi=700ma

five mode with memory CreeQ5 drop-in in a black SF G2 Nitrolon with a SolarForce clickie tailcap: Lo=390ma, Med=910ma, Hi=1510ma (wowzer's!!! [if it's accurate]).


Note:
*the second L2 host which is intended to host the single-mode R2 (already in hand) arrives via USPS Priority Mail today, so i haven't yet put the single-mode R2 drop-in in a host yet.

 

[jabe1]

I agree, I am running an r2 5 mode in an l2, and a 1 mode q5 in a 6p. The r2 is brighter overall if you include spill, but to my eye the q5 wins. The q5 has a whiter tint which makes the difference.
how are you testing for draw on an assembled light?

 

[half-watt]

how are you testing for draw on an assembled light?

sorry for the confusion. when i said "assembled", i must leave either the head and drop-in or the tailcap off. whenever i can, i leave the tailcap off as it's just simpler that way.

then just place your meter in series with the negative terminal of the last cell and the battery tube.

if the tailcap must be in series also (if there are any electronic components in the tailcap which are required for the light to function [in all modes - if multi-mode], then the tailcap must be in series in the ckt also and an additional jumper lead used.



assume the second more complicated case above, here is a more detailed description:


DMM has positive lead moved to the 10A Current banana jack [the only current measurement related jack on this particular DMM] and the mode selector set to DCAmps. The meter is then switched ON (this insures that i don't forget to set the meter up properly before connecting up the leads and trying to take a current measurement with the pos. lead in the wrong jack and the meter set to ACVolts which would result in a blown fuse [i keep a lotta' spare DMM fuses handy!!! can you guess why? Note: i switch the meter OFF when i'm done taking all current readings and immediately set the meter leads up for Voltage and Resistance readings and the DMM mode selector to ACVolts. one can't be too careful when one has "old-timers" as i do.]

red lead w/'gator clip is clipped to tailend of battery tube and pushes down on the cells in the tube (it's a forceful 'gator clip & holds well) thus compressing them into a fairly good(???) electrical connection with the positive terminal of the drop-in. the red (on Surefire cells) plastic insulating wrap which is standard on/around the CR123A cell (and cells of all types that i've seen) insulates the 'gator clip clamped to the battery tube and pushing down on the last cell from contacting the negative terminal of that last cell.

black lead 'gator clip clips to the tailcap which is switched on.

a separate jumper lead with large IC test clips (aka EZ-hooks) on both ends is used to activate the light by clipping one end to the spring in the center of the tailcap and then the other EZ-hook is extended (in the usual manner as if one is going to clip it to a tranny leg or IC pin or test point) and makes contact with the neg. terminal of the last cell in the battery tube, thus completing the circuit and allowing current to flow through the meter producing a reading on the meter.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

I agree, I am running an r2 5 mode in an l2, and a 1 mode q5 in a 6p. The r2 is brighter overall if you include spill, but to my eye the q5 wins. The q5 has a whiter tint which makes the difference.
how are you testing for draw on an assembled light?

Remove tailcap, put red DMM probe on rim or threads of body, and place black probe on negative end of exposed battery. Make sure your DMN is set for the
dc amp setting, 10 amps or 20 amps. Light will turn on. Notice amp reading on DMM. This measures draw from battery. This will not tell you what the draw from the battery is with tailcap switch installed. Resistance of swtich will result in a higher amp draw from battery.

Bill

 

[vetkaw63]

If you want to measure the current to the led you must have the dmm in line between the driver and the led. This means you need to desolder the wire from the led coming from the driver and measure at that point.
Mike

 

[Northern Lights]

I used this drop in. I have a bunch of Q2, Q5, I have had around here. It is the brightest I have had except for the P7,
IMPROVE THE N30 HID add a 225 Lumen R2 LED area light and GLOWING LED locators
I have seen this drop in advertised at 225 lumens and then I have seen a flashlight advertised with this drop in adverstised at 250 lumens. That company's initial is D.
That is irrelevent. It is brighter than any Q crees I have used. It definately has a smooth beam and plenty of throw. Although the P7 MTE I have has more light this R2 with its better throw is better at the longest range you can use it on than the P7 I have.

 

[half-watt]

If you want to measure the current to the led you must have the dmm in line between the driver and the led. This means you need to desolder the wire from the led coming from the driver and measure at that point.
Mike

we're talkin' total drain on the power source here. the converter and regulator electronic's parasitic draw is factored in intentionally, and though not in the case of these high-powered drop-in's (even multi-mode drop-in's low mode), at extremely low o.p. levels the electronics' parasitic draw can be a more significant percentage of the total energy consumed.

 

[MrGman]

Good morning
One of my favorite sellers on Ebay started to advertise CREE R2 leds
both as drop in upgrades and new flashlights

The output is listed at 290-300 lumens

is that true?
Anyone got one yet?

worth the upgrade?
(will I get shorter battery duration ??)

thanks
Mirko

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=193992&page=5

I have tested the Solarforce Cree R2 pill in their host, single mode was 200 lumens total into a calibrated integration sphere. the best I have gotten out of my 5 mode R2 pill so far is 130 lumens, I had the Unix Q5 pill. It does look warmer and better in the hot spot than the R2 pill but its total light was only 145 lumens. This is into a 6 inch integration sphere and a calibrated meter. I have tested many lights on it, we use it at work and check it. These are real numbers. That doesn't mean that there won't be part to part variations, but expect them to be in that range.

The hot spot of my R2 pills are smaller due to tighter focusing from the reflector than my Fenix T1, but the Lumens meter measures total light output. The T1 is 225 lumens actual through the glass numbers. :twothumbs

My Solarforce R2 has just a little bit more throw in the hot spot area due to that tighter beam so I like it very much even though its 200 lumens total. :twothumbs

 

[Gunner12]

Any links to this drop-in(there might be cheaper sources)?

290-300 lumen would be overdriving the LED. An if they are real lumen, it would be at the LED lumen, which is usually 20-30% higher then what out the front lumen is.

There's not that much difference output wise between the R2 and Q5.

I don't have one but it's probably safe to say that performance and quality should be similar to Cree XR-E Q5 LED drop-ins around the same price range.

 

[half-watt]

I have tested the Solarforce Cree R...EXCELLENT information MrGman!! many thanks.

 

[daimleramg]

I have 3 R2's...they are all on one light. Yes the output could be 270 lumens but it has to be driven at 1amp. Anything less will fall short. Pro-light japan says the high output version of the storm is driven at 960mAh





According to this stat sheet for the R2 my storm is putting out somewhere around 260 lumens per led x3 = 780 lumens

 

[MrGman]

Where did that stat sheet with lumens come from. Is that measured lumens or calculated numbers?? ?? ? Out of a glass lens or directly from a LED source??

 

[daimleramg]

Where did that stat sheet with lumens come from. Is that measured lumens or calculated numbers?? ?? ? Out of a glass lens or directly from a LED source??

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2412997&postcount=158

 

[Northern Lights]

This certainly is an informative thread. Imagine a member with access to an integrated sphere!! I bet there are a few people wanting to make friends with you now! And others providing the R2 specs.
I came to the conclusion before this thread that any more conversion for throw would be the R2 after playing with the drop in. I found I could buy cheap lights and put the module into the body and come up with several combinations of configurations having the R2 drop in for less money than buying the other cree version lights. That is a deal for that much more light out of these small lights. I found this to be true for K, D and QCG vendors.

 

[Gunner12]

The stats came from this thread.

Here's the post. I think he measures the intensity of the LED at different currents at different angles and goes from there.

 

[MrGman]

The stats came from this thread.

Here's the post. I think he measures the intensity of the LED at different currents at different angles and goes from there.

Thanks, I have seen that some people try to calculate the Lumens from the accumulated lux readings along the side angle and use the calculation formula that involves the steradians and I don't know how truly accurate that is due to the drop out or shadows in the beam just outside of the hot spot. But I will say its probably close. Also if they are making calculations as to the output at higher current levels based on lower ones, the efficiency drops off in a non linear fashion and I don't know how accurate those readings are either. If its based on the accumulated lux readings actually at those higher power levels, that would be better. If I read the chart right its based on accumulated lux readings but am not 100% sure. I just know that a calibrated integration sphere simply tells it like it is.

What I do like about the Lux readings is that you can see the differences in actual output from the hot spots to the spill areas and how they differ in flashlights. The solarforce L2's seem brigher than they really are because of the greater concentration of light in the hot spot and less in the spill than that of the Fenix T1/TK10. When you get to look at that total area of light in a useful way, you can see that the Fenix simply has more light. the hot spot is good, but there is more useful spill light than the solar force pills and the spill is wider in the Fenix. I was in the gun range last night in total darkness comparing the Fenix T1 to the Solarforce R2. The T1 is 225 lumens the R2 is 200. Against dull grey walls and cement floor (much better than white that simply saturates your eyes or camera and bounces light around), I could see better side to side of the range and everything in the middle down range with the Fenix than the Solarforce R2, plus its total beam was wider from the same point of reference. Getting a good picture of that though is the real trick.

I am working on a way to show this but am not yet ready. too much work to do.

On the other hand, I get to use the flashlights at work lighting up optics to photograph them and inspect them for their flaws. I impress my boss with my set up and technical knowledge of how to make a simple blue LED flashlight show up defects in an optical piece of plastic. I get to convince a customer that the artifacts they see with a bright white light are meaningless in an optic that was designed to solely reflect green light and those artifacts go away behind the 542nM optimized mirror coating. So I am getting paid to spend more time doing what I consider to be "playing with my flashlights" at work. It just slows me down from doing more of my own experimentation at home away from work. But its paid for my entire collection so can't complain.

I love the Fenix series but I must admit I really like the modularity of the Solarforce system. I bought 2 hosts, 2 extension tubes, 3 R2 single modes, 1 5 mode, 1 150 lumen 9V Xenon, 1 320 lumen 9V xenon, 2 different types of rail mounts, 2 different types of carrying holsters from maxpedition, a Unix Q5 (sold to a friend already who loves it). I love that I can take a Solarforce from 2 to 3 to 4 cells, mount on the rifle or slide it into the maxpedition self adjusting holster. It has great grip just as it is with no collars or rings. When they come in I can get the matching pressure switch. And of course the main reason, to drop in any future D26/P60 type replacment pill they come out with that interests me.

It was from the CPF thread about drop in replacement pills that I discovered them and you can't just have one now can you. You guys are feeding my addiction but fierce.

 

[LGCubana]

I just received one of these:
http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=2657

Very dissapointed in the output. For comparison, I replaced the "R2" with a Q5, 5-mode dropin; the Q5 was brighter on all modes.

I'll be contacting the dealer.

 

[lctorana]

Just been having a close look at the R2 data.

When you compare output against current, the R2 is significantly, I would almost expect visibly, brighter than the Q5.

But take a close look at lumens vs voltage.

Take 3.3V, as an example. At that voltage, the R2 current is lower and the lumens are actually less than the Q5.

Usually this is totally academic, as LEDs are driven with a constant current, or at least via a resistor.

However, if a cheap driver outputs constant voltage, then that would explain why the R2 might disappoint in some circumstances, yes?