D-10 Which Battery? Which O-ring?

[yaesumofo]

OK guys when I decided to buy a D10 is was mainly because of the PD design element. I like Don's Pd's a lot and am interested in the implementation of them in new lights even if they are made off shore.

That said.
The D-10 is a AA light.
I bought a very expensive Lithium cell 14500 for the light.
The thing is it has a very LOW capacity when compared to a NiMh cell.
the lithium cell is a 3.7 volt 750ma cell for 2.775 WH
some of my aa cells are 1.2 volt 2800ma cells for 3.36 WH


It would seem to me that a hi capacity NIMH cell would give a little more runtime. and cost a lot less.
Does the circuit in the D10 deal with 3.7 volts better than 1.2 Volts?
How efficient is it?

Have you guys noticed that the light is brighter with different batteries?
Some of this stuff may be covered in the manual but I am not sure I totally trust the factory to be completely exact in their specifications. They do have an interest in making the numbers look good.

ON the whole I like the D10. one thing I don't like is the constant draw. I can't see any good reason for this.

ON to the O-ring.

Unfortunately I lost my spare O-ring pack. I requested a replacement and 4x7's sent me a second accessory pack. (thanks guys) The thing is the O-rings which came with the light and the units sent as spares are totally different with the units mounted in the light being RED/orange and the spares being clear.
Just for kicks I mounted a clear O-ring and found the action to be no smoother just a lot easier to turn too easy. I like the stiffness to the twist action when the red O-rings are in use. I think they will be better in keeping out moisture and water too.

What are you guys doing? O-ring with the stock red or switching over to clear? Why?

On the whole I am impressed with the D10. One of my favorite "features"
is the material used to make the light 7075 aluminum. This is TOUGH Stuff. IMHO all of our single cell lights should be made form 7075. It is clearly a superior material to 6061.
I am also impressed by the anodizing on these lights. Normally on aggressive knurling anodizing begins to wear very quickly. So far even in pockets with keys I have not noticed any wear on the finish. It reminds me a lot of the quality of finish on my own MOFO CLICKY. while it is a matte finish unlike my work on that part it holds up just as well. Impressive.
Looking forward to your responses to my questions.
Yaesumofo

 

[nightgaunt]

My second unit (replacement) came with both clear o rings, and were very easy to pull off. The original unit came with a clear in the head, and red on the piston. I think that is the best (correct?) configuration. The clear on on the piston just seems too loose.

 

[alibaba]

yae,
I've heard that the lights are brighter on 14500's. I'm still waiting on mine but most seem to agree on this. As for runtime, perhaps the buck portion is more efficient than the boost? I really have no idea but some of the numbers I've seen seem to support 14500 having the better runtimes. As for the current draw when off, you know that you can put it into momentary mode and that stops right? I don't like my light to use power while off either but I keep mine in momentary most of the time so if you know you're not going to use it for awhile just give the head a quick twist. My understanding is that any light with digital switching will have current draw......................like Novatacs, LF5XT, Photon Proton etc. At least with SPD's you can stop it with momentary mode!

My D10 came with red orings on both the body and the piston along with 2 red spares. I like the reds as they are a bit stiff (which I like) and because the body doesn't have quite enough threads, IMO, and so I'd rather it be a bit harder to turn and have my head stay on!

Overall, I LOVE my D10 and other than adding another turn of threads can't think of much that I'd change with this light..................

 

[Drywolf]

.

 

[NetGod3Com]

Just some basic Ohm's law stuff....

These values are based on a pure resistive load in a perfect world. Assuming that you need to deliver 5 watts to the powered device..... Edited, tried to do this as a table, looks like crud. Verbal it is.

Nimh has a cell voltage of 1.2 supplying 5 watts means a current draw of 4.166 amps when the cell capacity is 2800 mAh we get a run time of .672 hours

If you could find straight Lithium primaries the cell voltage would be 3.0 supplying 5 watts means a current draw of 1.66 amps (no runtime as I couldn't find a reliable capacity listing)

Lithium cells (ex energizer e2) have an output voltage of 1.5 supplying 5 watts means a current draw of 3.3333 amps when cell capacity is 2900 mAh we get a runtime of .87 hours

Lithium-ion cells have a cell voltage of 3.7 supplying 5 watts means a current draw of 1.351 amps when cell capacity is 750mAh we get a runtime of .55 hours

Most of the information I have read suggests that supplying a 5 watt load with AA size cells would be a bit outside their design capacities.

You must also take into account the efficiency of the boost / buck circuit. If the boost circuit is less efficient than the buck circuit then the lower voltage cell takes another current and run time hit.

I am just hoping that the Lithium ion carbon nanotube technology that was listed on slashdot a few months back makes it to the mainstream sooner rather than later.

Ohm's law E=I*R | R=E/I | I=E/R
Basic power equation P=E*I | P = I^2* R

E = Volts, I = Current in amps, R = Resistance in ohms, P=Power in watts

Electronics class was YEARS ago!!!

 

[m16a]

I'm pretty sure the run time will still be longer on the 14500 simply because of the fact that its bucking the voltage, which is WAAAAY for efficient than boosting. My .02:thumbsup:

 

[yaesumofo]

These images look to me like the flashlight is putting out just about the same amount of light. Possibly too close to notice any difference.
The D10's efficiency rating spec isn't stated anywhere I have seen.
I have to agree about the red vs clear O-rings. Red seems to be the way to go. Not only is it a little stiffer but that resistance makes the action just right and smooth. I am used to a light which is a little thicker. So the thinner body size makes for a different feeling grip wise.
The knurling really helps here.

I am so used to cr123 and rcr123's that the aa cell size format is alien to me.
I only have one 14500 lithium cell and only one aa light. (except the older proton I almost never use) I like the aa format and am looking at some of the other aa lights to play with. Unfortunately none of the custom light makers that I know are making lights based on the aa cell. Maybe with improved electronics and lithium cells more custom AA based lights will make their way to the market.
Somehow I doubt that McGizmo will be making any AA based lights any time soon.
I may just end up with only one light in the AA format but I think I have to buy another lithium 14500 battery.

Yaesumofo

D10 with AW 14500 Manual F11 1 sec

D10 with Sanyo 2700 Nimh Manual F11 1sec.

Fresh charge on both batteries, then ran for five minutes.

 

[PhantomPhoton]

Most of the information I have read suggests that supplying a 5 watt load with AA size cells would be a bit outside their design capacities.

Death to alkiline AAs! :naughty:

Eneloops handle up to around 7A no problem, though their capacity is only 2Ah (a bit less at 7A). I run them in a 5mega hotwire and they hold their own quite well against high drain AAs like elite 1800s which can take 10C iirc. Here we get a much more even playing field for NiMh vs LiIon, where LiIon coud be better depending on the driver efficiency and how hard you're driving the LED.

Personally I've come to realize that for most cases NiMh AAs are superior to CR123s and RCR123s. For me the jury is still out on 14500s. I have a couple AWs that have been decent thus far. But I like 18650 far better. I havent joined the L91 cult yet but they provide the same BOB functionality that CR123s enjoy, so I'll likely go down that road soon.


Sorry, I do not have a D10 so I can not add anything about the o-rings.

 

[LED-holic]

It sounds like you're really enjoying the D10. :naughty:

I have 3 D10s, a couple with red o-rings, and one with clear o-rings. For all intents and purposes they are identical in feel and operation so I'm not sure the color of the o-rings make much of a difference.

I also use the CostCo 2000mAh Eneloops which work pretty well with these lights. The light throws quite a bit with the Eneloops and I've recently added the water bottle cap diffuser trick which are quite useful as well.

Like you I really am impressed by the finish and knurling on this light. I am truly thrilled by Don's PD design combined with the quality of the NiteCore manufacturing and execution. I'm afraid this light has spoiled me for most other lights. This light has really raised the bar for mass produced lights. :twothumbs

 

[yaesumofo]

I agree by using 7075 this alone raises the bar. add to this the use of Don's PD design, good useful knurling and high quality anodizing. You are correct this raises the bar.
Fenix needs to look at these if they want to keep up.
Look I am not particularly crazy about Chinese made flashlights, I am a big proponent of buying domestic made products.
My hope is that more US companies like Novatac and HDS will thrive, companies like LRI will shift their manufacturing to an on shore CM OK so the prices go up quality can go up too. So can the number of people working.

All of that said lights like the D10 at their price point do raise the bar. They are bringing a decent product in at a decent price.
They are using top of the lie materials that even most custom light makers do not use due the cost I assume.
IN the mean time I will continue to encourage my family use the D10 (my kid prefers it over her multi color coast at the moment) for what ever they need a light for.
I look forward to more flashlights made using the 7075 alloy as well as the PD design base.

BTW I have decided to keep the RED O-Ring in place and I will be ordering another AW 14500 cell in order to have one standing by ..rested and ready to go anytime one is needed.
Yaesumofo

This light has really raised the bar for mass produced lights. :twothumbs

 

[zipplet]

This light has really raised the bar for mass produced lights. :twothumbs

I couldn't agree more. I only received my D10 yesterday and I'm impressed with it. Until I had the D10 in my hand, I had the opinion that for mid-price mass produced lights Fenix would probably stay king. That may not be the case any longer!

(FYI: I consider mid price to be a fenix, and high price to be a surefire)

Ofcourse nothing beats a custom...

 

[Zenster]

I couldn't agree more. I only received my D10 yesterday and I'm impressed with it. Until I had the D10 in my hand, I had the opinion that for mid-price mass produced lights Fenix would probably stay king. That may not be the case any longer!

(FYI: I consider mid price to be a fenix, and high price to be a surefire)

Ofcourse nothing beats a custom...

Hmmm... in one hand, you got your $50 D10.
And in the other hand, you got your (whatever) $200+ custom.

I don't know, I'm thinking the D10 beats a "custom" any day. :twothumbs

It was only a matter of time before an "ordinary" company was able to raise the bar considerably and approach (or meet?) what's available as custom.

Imagine holding the D10 in one hand and any of the custom ($$$) lights in the other but not knowing how much each of them cost.
Would you really be able to easily know which was which?

 

[brandx]

Yaesumofo.. I would be very interested in your thoughts on the UI of the nitecore PD vs McGizmo PD with Kilroy since you have both.
I think the nitecore build quality is very nice, better than Fenix. The UI is very adaptable to output whatever one desires, but it is too complicated / slow for my taste. The nitecore Extreme UI is much simpler to immediately access either max or your previously programmed lower level via a simple twist of the head, but even here you have a couple seconds lag for the logic to do it's thing and switch the output. My optimum UI is basically the SF L1... press a little for low and press further for max. The ability to 'program' the output of the low level is advantageous but accessing the two levels should be instantaneous and totally 'intuitive' without reliance on 'practising' click-click or click-hold. It will be intersting to see what comes next from them and I am hoping for something along the lines of the Extreme with PD 2 stage switch.

 

[cave dave]

You know I was just thinking about how we needed another D10 thread to cover the same info already available in other threads like these:


selfbuilt review

oring poll

 

[drmaxx]

It would seem to me that a hi capacity NIMH cell would give a little more runtime. and cost a lot less.
Does the circuit in the D10 deal with 3.7 volts better than 1.2 Volts?
How efficient is it?

Have you guys noticed that the light is brighter with different batteries?
Some of this stuff may be covered in the manual but I am not sure I totally trust the factory to be completely exact in their specifications. They do have an interest in making the numbers look good.

There's thread out there that looks at the circut and efficiency of the D10/EX10. The forum is too slow, to find that now. But that's what I remember:
- It's a buck only.
- Using a fresh LiIon the light runs on direct drive and therfore might be brighter then when the buck is kicking in.
- The efficiency for NiMH is somewhere around 70%

Check out the electronics and battery section.

Edit:
Here's the link of the thread I was talking about:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=202901

 

[yaesumofo]

For me the ultra simple turn on to low by twisting and twisting further to high is close to perfect.

As far as User interfaces go the press to on and press to change level found on the D-10 is simple and easy to operate.

Simple is what is important to me. I prefer to NOT have lots of options and memory slots, strobes and SOS signals. I just don't need 'em. If I need to send an SOS signal I will send it myself. I have no need for these modes. The D-10 is just fine in terms of how the UI works.

OK the UI on all of the current PD lights which McGizmo makes are borderline IMHO. It is a user interface in the purest sense. BUT Most people look at a user interface is more then the ability to turn a light on to low and then high. The McGizmo KISS interface is hard to beat.

The Sundrop has a simple On and off UI.

That said How would I feel about a "digital" interface like the one used in the D-10 on a McGizmo PD? I think the ability to ramp the light up or down would be nice. More dynamic range is a feature I would be more interested in. If it came with a UI which allowed for ramping I would be willing to give it a try. I doubt it will ever happen unless a moder makes it happen. The current lights he is making (the Lunasol) would be difficult to add ramping to since there are 2 driver boards in the light. adding digital power switching to the light would be a real trick. I am quite sure that Don has no intention of adding any UI other than the ultra simple KISS twist (or push)to ON twist or push further to go to high. For a 2 level light it doesn't get any simpler. A "digital" UI would not make it any simpler either.
Yaesumofo

Yaesumofo.. I would be very interested in your thoughts on the UI of the nitecore PD vs McGizmo PD with Kilroy since you have both.
I think the nitecore build quality is very nice, better than Fenix. The UI is very adaptable to output whatever one desires, but it is too complicated / slow for my taste. The nitecore Extreme UI is much simpler to immediately access either max or your previously programmed lower level via a simple twist of the head, but even here you have a couple seconds lag for the logic to do it's thing and switch the output. My optimum UI is basically the SF L1... press a little for low and press further for max. The ability to 'program' the output of the low level is advantageous but accessing the two levels should be instantaneous and totally 'intuitive' without reliance on 'practising' click-click or click-hold. It will be interesting to see what comes next from them and I am hoping for something along the lines of the Extreme with PD 2 stage switch.

 

[42]

I've done some runtime testing on the D10. No measuring devices were involved, I just left the light on next to another light for comparison and eyeballed the results. Not scientific but reasonably useful ballpark figures:


~35 min to ~50% on Eveready Gold

~35 min to ~50% on Duracell Ultra

~35 min to ~50% on CVS Alkaline

~40 min to ~50% on Energizer Max

~50 min to ~50% on Energizer e2 Titanium

~60 min to ~50% on Duracell rechargeable NiMH 1800 mAH

~65 min to ~50% on Sanyo Eneloop rechargeable NiMH 2000 mAH (LSD)

75 min to shutdown on AW 14500

~85 min to ~50% on Duracell rechargeable NiMH 2650 mAH

~90 min to ~50% on Energizer e2 Lithium


The light is brighter on the 14500, but it's only noticeable when doing side by side comparisons.

Mark

 

[Vikas Sontakke]

Which 14500 work with D10? Couple of Trustfire do not work with couple of D10 that I have tried so far. The Trustfires are a hair longer than regular NiMh.

I am disappointed at the "pickyness" of the battery physical dimension requirement for the operation of this light. I feel that design of the mechanism should have accounted for different 14500 size cells. There are too many variables for this light to work correctly i.e. length of the cell, protrusion of the battery nipple, tail spring length and tension, length of the sleeve, the tension of the split ring in the head etc etc

- Vikas

 

[LED-holic]

Which 14500 work with D10? Couple of Trustfire do not work with couple of D10 that I have tried so far. The Trustfires are a hair longer than regular NiMh.

I am disappointed at the "pickyness" of the battery physical dimension requirement for the operation of this light. I feel that design of the mechanism should have accounted for different 14500 size cells. There are too many variables for this light to work correctly i.e. length of the cell, protrusion of the battery nipple, tail spring length and tension, length of the sleeve, the tension of the split ring in the head etc etc

- Vikas

I'm not disappointed at all.

The extremely well done machining and close tolerances means the light was manufactured with precision operation in mind. Kind of like how the M16 has super tight tolerances, but is far more accurate than the very loose fitting AK47s.

 

[torpeau]

I've done some runtime testing on the D10. No measuring devices were involved, I just left the light on next to another light for comparison and eyeballed the results. Not scientific but reasonably useful ballpark figures:

The light is brighter on the 14500, but it's only noticeable when doing side by side comparisons.

Mark

Being pretty new to this, it looks like the Eneloops are a very reasonable choice. Thanks!