D mag incan beamshots?

[Nitro]

This discussion reminds me of another one that took place over 30 years ago, when Transistors became popular. A lot of people thought they would replace Vacuum Tubes. Well they did in a lot of electronics. They also made small electronics possible, i.e. "Transistor Radios". However, there's one place Transistors have not replaced Vacuum Tubes, and that's in HIGH POWER applications. Transistors cannot handle the power like Vacuum Tubes. That's why Vacuum Tubes are still used in the late stages of High End amplifiers (Concerts, Broadcast Stations, etc).

LED's are just like Transistors (Actually they're the same, Solid State Semi-conductors). They will (already have) taken over Small, Low Power applications, but it will be a long time, if ever, before they can compete with Incans, or ARC's in High Power applications. LED's are more efficient at lower power, but Incans and Arc's are more efficient at higher power. Actually Arc's are more efficient then incans, but I don't see them taking over anytime soon, because of other issues.

So if you want the best of all worlds, do what I'm doing. Get small LED's (Fenix P1D, HDS120 etc) for EDC, get a mid size that can still be carried in you pocket for throw (SL TL-3), get a bigger one (ROP or MAG85) for going on hikes at night, get a 100W MAG to impress your friends and then get a 50W HID to impress your town.

 

[LuxLuthor]

Nitro is right on the money.

There are places for capguns, places for real guns, cannons, and bunker buster bombs. None of Yellow's shots shows a REAL incand mod....so unless you have 700L to 9,000L Mag mods you just don't know what you are missing.

Here's another thread that compares to an L2 on high (100L) vs. a few Maglite mods.

 

[yellow]

ok, then someone who owns a real incan mod and a real led mod
like this here:

the one with the seven emitters. Pic stolen somewhere here in cpf

just not to compare apples and oranges again

PS: how about a beamshot comparison after having the light run for 1/2 an hour :Evilgrin07:

PPS: I still think the ONLY comparison of value is with lights consuming roughly the same power.
As my 6P is modded with the cree, I could offer a 3P, which draws 1.2 A from the cell and the modded 6P that draws 850 mA from the Li-Ion. So both more or less equal.
You incan guys dont really want to see a comparison, believe me

 

[Nitro]

Let me get this straight. You want to compare SEVEN LED's to ONE Incan? Why don't we compare seven LED's to SEVEN Incans?

Yellow said: PPS: I still think the ONLY comparison of value is with lights consuming roughly the same power.
You obviously missed the point. LED's have a LOWER LIMIT to how much power they can consume then Incans. If you limit Incans power consumption to that of LED's, then you may have a fight. Just like me and a Heavy Weight fighter with both hands tied behind his back.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

The trick with M*glites is never ever run one totally stock.

I only have a few with the standard number and type of batteries and they all have M*gleds in them.

For incandescent I never have less than a 1 battery overdrive. This would be 4C in a 3D M*g.

Also frosted bulbs and diffusing lenses go a LONG way to cure whats wrong with a M*g.

Lastly, take whatever pains you must to get the bulb PERFECTLY centered in the reflector. It makes a LOT of difference to beam quality!

 

[LED BriCK]

Maybe I'm underthinking this, but I think the purpose of the OP was just to obtain some standardized and easily recognizable benchmarks against which to compare his lights, not to debate the merits of hotwires or the unacceptability of a stock Mag's beam quality. Obviously, even a modest hotwire will trounce all but the craziest of LED ElektroLumens-grade lights, but I don't think that was his point.

That said, sorry, I can't help you with any beamshot links.

 

[LuxLuthor]

ok, then someone who owns a real incan mod and a real led mod
like this here:

the one with the seven emitters. Pic stolen somewhere here in cpf

just not to compare apples and oranges again

PS: how about a beamshot comparison after having the light run for 1/2 an hour :Evilgrin07:

PPS: I still think the ONLY comparison of value is with lights consuming roughly the same power.
As my 6P is modded with the cree, I could offer a 3P, which draws 1.2 A from the cell and the modded 6P that draws 850 mA from the Li-Ion. So both more or less equal.
You incan guys dont really want to see a comparison, believe me

I really get a kick out of the LED guys keep trying to insist that their lights compare with the moderate to high power Maglite mods. Just the fact that you had to bring up an example with 3 LED's makes my point even more.

You can put all kinds of conditions on the argument, like the comparison MUST be a small size light the length of your middle finger. They must have the same run time. The same current, voltage, wattage. They must have the same type, size, & number of batteries....what other conditions? Why not 25 LED light? How about the same color? Want to add they both must have a hand strap? Go for it dude!

I have read how many lumens are put out by those tri-cree/seoul setups, and I say again without reservation that they are not on the same scale of lumen output as the Maglite mods I'm talking about. The characteristic of the flat, 180° output LED also does not lend itself to the kind of throw that incand bulbs achieve by sticking their filament out into the focal length center of a reflector with about 330° output

Personally, I do not like the frosted or stippled reflectors or diffusing lenses that PlayboyJoeShmoe prefers because that defeats much of the torch lumen output and throw that I enjoy with incand mags....and the only LED Maglites I own (out of a collection of about 30) are the two aspherical mags. The FM 2" Deep or 3" wide reflectors remove all of the beam artifacts of the lights I like to use, while enhancing the hotspot and throw.

I have my SF-L2, several Fenix (including P1D-CE), & Jetbeam clone capguns. I like them inside and for things up close...but that's it. The rest of the time, and where I use my hand held lights 90% of the time is outside. Incandescents and HID's rule the outside wilderness.

 

[LuxLuthor]

Maybe I'm underthinking this, but I think the purpose of the OP was just to obtain some standardized and easily recognizable benchmarks against which to compare his lights, not to debate the merits of hotwires or the unacceptability of a stock Mag's beam quality. Obviously, even a modest hotwire will trounce all but the craziest of LED ElektroLumens-grade lights, but I don't think that was his point.

That said, sorry, I can't help you with any beamshot links.

If it was only his first comment that started the thread....perhaps that was the initial purpose, but by the time I stepped in after reading the 8 posts, there was a more complete and erroneus picture of his interests painted by him and several others. IMHO, if their characterization is inaccurate, and posted in the incandescent section of the forum, it is worth setting the record straight.

My main point is LED's have their uses, but those who only own LED's just have no idea what else is out there, and how they can work...so they should not speak inaccurately unless they have clear evidence to back it up.

 

[Nitro]

I estimate it would take over THIRTY 150L LED's to equal the total output of this ONE light, but I bet 100 LED's could not light up what this light could 100 Yards out.

 

[LuxLuthor]

I estimate it would take over THIRTY 150L LED's to equal the total output of this ONE light, but I bet 100 LED's could not light up what this light could 100 Yards out.

Cool mod. A worthy memory of your father. I'm sorry for your loss. I know what it's like....10 years later and I still miss mine. Lucky Strikes since WW-II ==> Lung cancer.

 

[Nitro]

Thanks Lux,

I haven't done much with the light lately. Now that's it's warmer I may take it out for some fun. I still need a good battery pack though. I'm thinking Li-ion. D's would be perfect, but I can use C's.

 

[LuxLuthor]

I think D Li-Ions are a dead issue. Apparently Jimmy's thread did not pan out, and there was only that one run of 300 from a while ago. You can make these Protected C's do a lot of things though. Thanks again to AW for making so many of these great Li-Ion cells available to us.

 

[Nitro]

I keep hearing the same thing about Jimmy's D's. BUT, I don't believe Li-Ion D cells are dependent on Jimmy. No offense Jimmy.

I'll bet Li-Ion D cells will become available, IF there's a demand for them. I believe there is.

 

[yellow]

Seems my points get missed constantly, maybe I m using the wrong terms, as a non native speaker? :thinking:

... that WA 1185 ROP is brighter than a single emitter which runs on just 1/10 of power.
Impressed.

Now my car high beam is brighter than the 1185 light.
Do You consider that a fair comparison? Or?
It consumes three times the power of the 1185, ...

As You all seem to know that a led has its 1 A limit, there has to be found another way to get them equal,
and thats by adding emitters.

Lights like the seven emitter mod at the pic are about the same size (even smaller, but ...) that a modded mag, run about the same time and consume about the same power.

Only such would make a fair comparison and not to compare any stock light with a heavily modded ROP

 

[LuxLuthor]

I keep hearing the same thing about Jimmy's D's. BUT, I don't believe Li-Ion D cells are dependent on Jimmy. No offense Jimmy.

I'll bet Li-Ion D cells will become available, IF there's a demand for them. I believe there is.

Well he is close with a supplier available to do 500 of them. But he needs someone to come up with the $5500 - $6,000 to do the order. I also ran into a problem a few months ago where the Post Office clerk said they have a new regulation about not shipping batteries unless they are new, in unopened packaging...and that wasn't even about Lithiums.

Yellow, I'm bored with this LED vs. Incand discussion. There's no comparison. Knock yourself out arguing.

 

[yellow]

Knock yourself out arguing.

your re right, I give up
... there simply is no arguing here

 

[Nitro]

Well he is close with a supplier available to do 500 of them. But he needs someone to come up with the $5500 - $6,000 to do the order.

Why doesn't he do a Pre-Order? (Why am I asking you, and not him? ) I'd tie up some $ in order to get a few(12). However, I don't like that they're not protected. But I'd be using them in a battery pack for my CC, so I could add my own protection circuit. 8 D's run in series/parallel would give me over 2 Hours runtime.

I also ran into a problem a few months ago where the Post Office clerk said they have a new regulation about not shipping batteries unless they are new, in unopened packaging...and that wasn't even about Lithiums.

If the PO restricts battery shipments, won't that effect AW as well? Then they'll then have to shrink wrap, and put a label on them. "AW's Awesome Batteries", "Jimmy's Juice".

 

[LuxLuthor]

Why doesn't he do a Pre-Order? (Why am I asking you, and not him? ) I'd tie up some $ in order to get a few(12). However, I don't like that they're not protected. But I'd be using them in a battery pack for my CC, so I could add my own protection circuit. 8 D's run in series/parallel would give me over 2 Hours runtime.

I think the age of pre-orders are not popular due to the non-delivered presales that are unresolved now....unless only a few with superb reputations and track record stepped up.

If the PO restricts battery shipments, won't that effect AW as well? Then they'll then have to shrink wrap, and put a label on them. "AW's Awesome Batteries", "Jimmy's Juice".

I'm not at all sure there are ACTUAL printed restrictions...at least not that I can find online....so I'm more suspicious of various local post office decisions or individual clerk's interpretations that should be checked out.

The clerk did tell me it applied to international and domestic, ground, and air delivery methods at the USPS....but I have not taken the time to call the P.O. and talk to the Postmaster, and cannot find it online. I'm just wanting to make sure if someone took delivery of 500 batteries they should verify that they can ship them back out to people for their own reassurance.

 

[Nitro]

Dilemmas Dilemmas. Too bad! I really had my mouth watering over those D's, even though they're unprotected. I guess I'll have to make use of C's for now.