Dangerous shipping: CR123

[redryder]

I bought a dozen CR123 from a vendor. He shipped them loose in a sandwich bag(they were touching each other). Was there any potential danger or possible damage to the batteries? Thanks.

 

[MikeLip]

I bought a dozen CR123 from a vendor. He shipped them loose in a sandwich bag(they were touching each other). Was there any potential danger or possible damage to the batteries? Thanks.

Well, you have to complete a circuit to cause a problem. And doing that with batteries flopping around in a bag might be hard to do. Still, not good practice.

I'd be more concerned about mechanical damage to them.

 

[Darkpower]

I bought a dozen CR123 from a vendor. He shipped them loose in a sandwich bag(they were touching each other). Was there any potential danger or possible damage to the batteries? Thanks.

Now you know whom not to buy from.

 

[greenLED]

Who was this vendor?
Which method of shipment was used?
Was there any padding in the package?
Were they shipped in a box or an envelope?

Regardless of the answers, if they're a recognized vendor, they should know better.

 

[jugg2]

I have only ordered 123s from Fenix-Store once, but they shipped them loose in a small sandwich bag. I believe I ordered 16 or 20 of them. I'm not trying to point fingers here, especially at Fenix. Every time I have dealt with them they have top notch customer service. The batteries seemed fine when I got them, so I didn't worry about it. I figured if thats the way they shipped them, then it was ok. But maybe I'm wrong?

 

[TMorita]

C'mon guys...use your common sense.

In order to complete the circuit, you need to have a big ring of batteries.
If you look at the tip of the battery, you will realize there is a maximum angle at which the batteries can be touching positive-to-negative to make the connection.

So, let's say hypothetically the batteries can be connected at right angles (90 degrees) and still touch. So basically, you need a minimum of four batteries to complete the circuit, because 360/90 = 4. If you ship fewer than four of this battery type, it's not possible to make a circuit in a sandwich bag.

So if the maximum connection angle of these CR123s is 15 degrees, then the maximum safe number to ship loose in a bag would be (360/15) - 1 or 23 batteries. So if you ship 23 loose batteries or less, then it's safe.

So, can you measure the maximum connection angle of these batteries?

Toshi

 

[ltiu]

I have only ordered 123s from Fenix-Store once, but they shipped them loose in a small sandwich bag. I believe I ordered 16 or 20 of them. I'm not trying to point fingers here, especially at Fenix. Every time I have dealt with them they have top notch customer service. The batteries seemed fine when I got them, so I didn't worry about it. I figured if thats the way they shipped them, then it was ok. But maybe I'm wrong?

I got 4 from Fenix store recently. They were in a tiny ziplock bag big enough to hold 4 CR123A. They were in there tight, nothing loose.

 

[jugg2]

I got 4 from Fenix store recently. They were in a tiny ziplock bag big enough to hold 4 CR123A. They were in there tight, nothing loose.

Some of mine were in a tiny bag like that as well. I don't know why, maybe for safety like TMorita said. The little bag is kinda nice for a spare carrier.

 

[Darkpower]

C'mon guys...use your common sense.

In order to complete the circuit, you need to have a big ring of batteries.
If you look at the tip of the battery, you will realize there is a maximum angle at which the batteries can be touching positive-to-negative to make the connection.

So, let's say hypothetically the batteries can be connected at right angles (90 degrees) and still touch. So basically, you need a minimum of four batteries to complete the circuit, because 360/90 = 4. If you ship fewer than four of this battery type, it's not possible to make a circuit in a sandwich bag.

So if the maximum connection angle of these CR123s is 15 degrees, then the maximum safe number to ship loose in a bag would be (360/15) - 1 or 23 batteries. So if you ship 23 loose batteries or less, then it's safe.

So, can you measure the maximum connection angle of these batteries?

Toshi

Nevertheless, it poses a possibility, regardless of how insignificant. In the world of risk management, probability and statistics dictate that if you can take a tiny precaution, to ensure that the risk is further minimized, then do so. If the probability of 10 loose CR123's completing a circuit long enough to short, and instantly releasing 20 to 30 watts of stored energy in 10 milliseconds, ...and if this risk were one chance in ten thousand, then its too risky when simply taping them together, or taping their cathodes to insulate reduces this risk to one in 100 million probability...then that precaution needs to be taken.

If the US Postal service handles thousands of pieces of mail with loose CR123s in them everyday out of a sea of millions of pieces of mail daily...then statistics and probabilty would play out and we could expect a Lithium fire every few months. A risk that would eventually get these batteries labeled too dangerous for US parcel.

 

[greenLED]

If the US Postal service handles thousands of pieces of mail with loose CR123s in them everyday out of a sea of millions of pieces of mail daily...then statistics and probabilty would play out and we could expect a Lithium fire every few months. A risk that would eventually get these batteries labeled too dangerous for US parcel.

The risk of physical damage to the cells (and the subsequent "venting with flames") in a regular envelope must be considered as well.

 

[Thujone]

So if the maximum connection angle of these CR123s is 15 degrees, then the maximum safe number to ship loose in a bag would be (360/15) - 1 or 23 batteries. So if you ship 23 loose batteries or less, then it's safe.

Toshi

There is also the point of the size of the bag. In all reality there is likely not enough space in the page for the batteries to accidentally end up in the magical end to end configuration... I am guessing the whole scenario is unpossible.

 

[TMorita]

Nevertheless, it poses a possibility, regardless of how insignificant.
...

You missed my point. Here's an example.

You have two CR123 cells in a sandwich bag. Now, how can these cells make a complete circuit? Is it a possibility, or is it impossible?

Toshi

 

[TMorita]

The risk of physical damage to the cells (and the subsequent "venting with flames") in a regular envelope must be considered as well.

It sounds like the risk of physical damage to the cells is much higher than the risk of short-circuiting by making a ring of cells inside the bag.

Toshi

 

[Marduke]

Just measured a couple Panasonic CR123's from fenix-store I had lying around.

1.350" in length
conservative 25 degree maximum contact angle

That gives a continuous circle of approximately 7" in diameter (depending on if you measure to centerline or outside edge) containing no less than 15 cells. HIGHLY unlikely to achieve this during shipment.

 

[Darkpower]

You missed my point. Here's an example.

You have two CR123 cells in a sandwich bag. Now, how can these cells make a complete circuit? Is it a possibility, or is it impossible?

Toshi

Just measured a couple Panasonic CR123's from fenix-store I had lying around.

1.350" in length
conservative 25 degree maximum contact angle

That gives a continuous circle of approximately 7" in diameter (depending on if you measure to centerline or outside edge) containing no less than 15 cells. HIGHLY unlikely to achieve this during shipment.

Come on guys. A little precaution can make all the difference in the world. The issue isn't if its probable, but if it is at all possible. Secondly, most of us aren't going to buy 2 or 5 at a time. We buy bulk...ie 12, 24, 50 at a time to amortize the cost of shipping and the take advantage of volume discount for a cell that sells for $4.95 at the Drug Store. Thoses cell need to be secured during shipping.

 

[Marduke]

Come on guys. A little precaution can make all the difference in the world. The issue isn't if its probable, but if it is at all possible. Secondly, most of us aren't going to buy 2 or 5 at a time. We buy bulk...ie 12, 24, 50 at a time to amortize the cost of shipping and the take advantage of volume discount for a cell that sells for $4.95 at the Drug Store. Thoses cell need to be secured during shipping.

If you keep the number of cells per bag under 15, it is IMPOSSIBLE

 

[VidPro]

the post office makes anything possible
i think that damage is the thing that makes some shipping methods suck completly, even 2 poorly packed can get in a position where going postal isnt good for them.
i have had MANY shipped with visable denting from poor packaging, packaging that probably looked GREAT when they sent it out, but after being literally assualted in shipping the batteries had visable denting of the containment.

shippers need to make a packing that can be literally tossed across the room 15 times, and have 4 apes jump up and down on it, before they should assume that MY usps delivery is going to be ok at this end. they should SEE what thier opinion of well packaged, looks like after it gets here, it would change thier methods.

i should take some pictures of the packages i have gotten from as far away as china, and as close as the same state, whatever they are doing in USPS (and HKpost etc) is worse than being delivered by Wild Mustangs