DBS (Q4 UPDATE!), MRV, Tiablo A8, DX Cree Projection, WF-600: RUNTIMES and pics!

[StefanFS]

Re: DBS, MRV, Tiablo A8, DX Cree Projection, WF-600: RUNTIMES and detailed pics!

As you'll see, the flipside of the deeper reflector (with increased throw) is the narrower spillbeam. I'm planing to do some outdoor shots, so stay tuned!
....
Although the DBS is possibly the best *designed* throw light (with its modular format, use of reflector for extended heatsinking, etc.), the Tiablo is probably the best *built* light of the group (with its higher grade aluminum, perfect anodizing, elegant size and feel). Personally, I still consider the MRV the best looking (with its gorgeous chocolate-brown anodizing, nickle-plated heatsink, etc.). Of course, that last point is subjective.

I agree on your point about spill area, the deeper the reflector the smaller the spill area gets. It's also a question of reflector geometry, Lumapower got that right on the MRV. It will be nice outdoor shots, I'm sure. I'm really looking forward to your testing of the DBS with a serious module. I might get a DBS when they are available in black, but it depends on how much smaller spill area it has compared to a Tiablo.
Keep on reviewing,
Stefan

 

[woodrow]

Re: DBS, MRV, Tiablo A8, DX Cree Projection, WF-600: RUNTIMES and detailed pics!

That's what I was getting at. The 3-stage module has very flat regulation with 18650's. It beats out the Tiablo as far as regulation. Fastcar was still getting a reading of 25,000LUX after 2 hours of run time on a 1865, which would indicate the DBS is brighter after 2 hours than the Tiablo A8/A9 Q5 is on startup.

Your Right! But I could not get a DBS in 4 days The DBS really does look like a great light...If I do not buy another HID right away, I might pick one up. As to #'s I personally have more faith in those posted above than the person who you mentioned. Again the DBS looks like a truely great light.

 

[WadeF]

Re: DBS, MRV, Tiablo A8, DX Cree Projection, WF-600: RUNTIMES and detailed pics!

As to #'s I personally have more faith in those posted above than the person who you mentioned. Again the DBS looks like a truely great light.

Keep in mind he hasn't posted anything about the 3-stage module yet. So I was quoting the results others have gotten so far, and my personal readings agree with their findings so far. I'm looking forward to lightreviews.info's results.

 

[Steve L]

Re: DBS, MRV, Tiablo A8, DX Cree Projection, WF-600: RUNTIMES and detailed pics!

I believe the DBS runtime chart was done before the 3 mode Q5 module was released. I think it was done with a Q4.

 

[WadeF]

Re: DBS, MRV, Tiablo A8, DX Cree Projection, WF-600: RUNTIMES and detailed pics!

I believe the DBS runtime chart was done before the 3 mode Q5 module was released. I think it was done with a Q4.

A Q5 should produce the same run times, but with more output, unless the Q5 has a higher VF than the Q4.

 

[Steve L]

Re: DBS, MRV, Tiablo A8, DX Cree Projection, WF-600: RUNTIMES and detailed pics!

Looking at the Lux numbers in the chart I think it was done using the OP reflector.

 

[woodrow]

Re: DBS, MRV, Tiablo A8, DX Cree Projection, WF-600: RUNTIMES and detailed pics!

I really do like the look of the reflector on the DBS. The only deep reflector lights I have or have had are the SL survivorled (still one of my favorites despite its modest output) and a Heliotek.

I would still say that any of the above reviewed lights should do as good of a job as a led can lighting up things in the distance.

What scares me is how much money I am going to want to drop on a HID so I can not just reach out and touch distant targets, but actually light them up. My fear is not getting my Tiablo and being tempted to buy a DBS as well, it is getting my Tiablo and wanting to buy a AE or Microfire.

 

[whitedoom34]

Re: DBS, MRV, Tiablo A8, DX Cree Projection, WF-600: RUNTIMES and detailed pics!

What scares me is how much money I am going to want to drop on a HID so I can not just reach out and touch distant targets, but actually light them up. My fear is not getting my Tiablo and being tempted to buy a DBS as well, it is getting my Tiablo and wanting to buy a AE or Microfire.

So true, so true. I was so happy with my Tiablo A8, but the lure of the HID bug was too great... so I now happily own my Tiablo A8 and WE Boxer 24W. Indeed, this is a strange phenomena... If you are impresssed by your Tiablo, prepare to have your mind blown by HIDs.

 

[ergotelis]

Re: DBS, MRV, Tiablo A8, DX Cree Projection, WF-600: RUNTIMES and detailed pics!

Just got my 3stage q4 DBS. Now it is next to my A8 Q5, too bad that now it is still day here! At the evening the comparison you all wanted! Canon 350D is the camera of evidence!

 

[JKL]

Re: DBS, MRV, Tiablo A8, DX Cree Projection, WF-600: RUNTIMES and detailed pics!

Just got my 3stage q4 DBS. Now it is next to my A8 Q5, too bad that now it is still day here! At the evening the comparison you all wanted! Canon 350D is the camera of evidence!

Very well Ergotelis !!! :twothumbs
We are waiting for beamshots contest DBS vs A8-Q5 :naughty:

 

[selfbuilt]

Re: DBS, MRV, Tiablo A8, DX Cree Projection, WF-600: RUNTIMES and detailed pics!

Just updated the main post with a few extra comments on build quality/issues with the DBS.

Important point to keep in mind is that early shipping versions often have some bugs to work out, which is something we early adopters always potentially face. In my mind, the DBS has a similar number of issues as the early MRV (just different issues), and none of them are insurmountable. The MRV certainly evolved into a fantastic light - we will have to wait and see with the next version DBS.

Might have to wait a few more days for nightime beamshots. I had scouted out a gorgeous location nearby, but Mrs Selfbuilt nixed the idea when she discovered I'd be hiking down a ravine at night. I'm sure I can find something decent on level ground closer to home ... I'll keep you posted.

I agree on your point about spill area, the deeper the reflector the smaller the spill area gets. It's also a question of reflector geometry, Lumapower got that right on the MRV. It will be nice outdoor shots, I'm sure. I'm really looking forward to your testing of the DBS with a serious module. I might get a DBS when they are available in black, but it depends on how much smaller spill area it has compared to a Tiablo.

+1 on all fronts. Good point about the geometry - this is why the wider/deeper DX plastic reflectors throw so similarly to the MRV (i.e. they seem to have matched the geometric profile well). I have to say, I personally prefer this MRV-style beam profile over the DBS. Ever since the early days of the Fenix, I've always liked a defined hotspot with a fairly even, large spill beam (like the MRV). The DBS has a much brigther corona around the hotspot, and narrower overall spillbeam width.

Probably a good call to wait until the black versions are out. Hopefully the machining and anodizing issues will be resolved by then (and hopefully they will have found a better thread lube that doesn't migrate to contact surfaces). But the spillbeam width is considerably less than the Tiablo ...

A Q5 should produce the same run times, but with more output, unless the Q5 has a higher VF than the Q4.

Yes, that reasoning seems likely if Vf is indeed the culprit here (which I suspect it is). Both the Q4/Q5 are known to have higher Vfs over the P4/Q2, which explain the increased runtime with neglible output different on 18650 in multipower circuits.

Looking at the Lux numbers in the chart I think it was done using the OP reflector.

If you are referring to my chart, no, they are all smooth reflectors. The reason my absolute numbers look lower is my light meter. There is natural variation between all light meters, you can't compare one to another. What matters is that the results are internally consistent (i.e. the meter gives verifiable reliable comparison data, even if its absolute calibration differs from others).

 

[Steve L]

Re: DBS, MRV, Tiablo A8, DX Cree Projection, WF-600: RUNTIMES and detailed pics!

Hi Selfuilt, Are you using this lux meter from DX: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5100. I have this meter and am getting lower readings than other people. MRV1 12500 lux, MRV 2 13000 lux, Tiablo A9 15500lux, you get the idea. All readings taken at 1m with a smooth reflector and 2 fully charged RCR123's.

 

[Illumination]

Re: DBS, MRV, Tiablo A8, DX Cree Projection, WF-600: RUNTIMES and detailed pics!

Has anyone compared any of these lights to the Streamlight TL-3? Curious how yesterday's standby 'throw monster' compares to these new LED throw champs. (These LED lights put out around 250 lumens...i think the TL-3 was at least that. With the Carley bulb I think the TL-3 passed 300 lumens)

(Yes I know the TL-3 uses 3 batteries while these use one or two...still curious how the throw and brightness compare...clearly the TL-3 has no chance of competing on efficiency.)

 

[Nitro]

Re: DBS, MRV, Tiablo A8, DX Cree Projection, WF-600: RUNTIMES and detailed pics!

Has anyone compared any of these lights to the Streamlight TL-3? Curious how yesterday's standby 'throw monster' compares to these new LED throw champs. (These LED lights put out around 250 lumens...i think the TL-3 was at least that. With the Carley bulb I think the TL-3 passed 300 lumens)

(Yes I know the TL-3 uses 3 batteries while these use one or two...still curious how the throw and brightness compare...clearly the TL-3 has no chance of competing on efficiency.)

Check out my "Got Throw?" link.

I'm still waiting on that Carley bulb though.

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

Re: DBS, MRV, Tiablo A8, DX Cree Projection, WF-600: RUNTIMES and detailed pics!

So the Tiablos are still the only Super-Throwers that are actually fully-regulated?

 

[selfbuilt]

Re: DBS, MRV, Tiablo A8, DX Cree Projection, WF-600: RUNTIMES and detailed pics!

Hi Selfuilt, Are you using this lux meter from DX: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5100. I have this meter and am getting lower readings than other people. MRV1 12500 lux, MRV 2 13000 lux, Tiablo A9 15500lux, you get the idea. All readings taken at 1m with a smooth reflector and 2 fully charged RCR123's.

Yup, I use the same one for throw values. Its calibration does seem lower compared to most others. But I have verified that its response is linear across an inverse square distance, so it appears to be reporting in a consistent fashion.

FYI, my lightbox is a home-made job with a built-in integrated photoresistive cell, which is why those numbers are typically on a relative scale in my other reviews. In this case, I've calibrated my runtimes to initial throw lux @1m.

So the Tiablos are still the only Super-Throwers that are actually fully-regulated?

Well, only the A8 is fully regulated - I don't have the Tiablo A9, but I imagine its runtimes look more like the other multipower lights (especially on 18650).

Frankly, it's very difficult to get a fully regulated light over a ~3-9V input range. Only reason Tiablo could do it on the A8 is they actually have a narrower range (i.e. only up to 6V). I expect the replacement 3-stage Q4 module for my DBS (which is 18650-only) should be very well regulated. I'll let update the runtimes when I receive it.

 

[Dr.Glock27]

Re: DBS, MRV, Tiablo A8, DX Cree Projection, WF-600: RUNTIMES and detailed pics!

Great review. I have the Tiablo A9S and Im lloking forward to the arrival of my WF600. I would have wanted to get the DBS but . For christmas perhaps?:twothumbs By the way, does anyone have any idea how good the WF800 is? Others say its a bit dimmer than the WF600 but a lot longer runtime...insights?

 

[StefanFS]

Re: DBS, MRV, Tiablo A8, DX Cree Projection, WF-600: RUNTIMES and detailed pics!

Selfbuilt,
I'm getting an itch to get one black DBS with Q5 module. Please continue to deconstruct the light and it's features. Right now I've decided to wait for black with Q5, I'm not conviced yet about the throw values of over 30 000 Lux at ~1000 mA, I'll have to test it myself.
Stefan

 

[maxilux]

Re: DBS, MRV, Tiablo A8, DX Cree Projection, WF-600: RUNTIMES and detailed pics!

Has anyone compared any of these lights to the Streamlight TL-3? Curious how yesterday's standby 'throw monster' compares to these new LED throw champs. (These LED lights put out around 250 lumens...i think the TL-3 was at least that. With the Carley bulb I think the TL-3 passed 300 lumens)

Yes, i compare the A8 an A9 to the TL3 and the Tiablo throws out the TL3 without any problems

 

[WadeF]

Re: DBS, MRV, Tiablo A8, DX Cree Projection, WF-600: RUNTIMES and detailed pics!

Selfbuilt,
I'm getting an itch to get one black DBS with Q5 module. Please continue to deconstruct the light and it's features. Right now I've decided to wait for black with Q5, I'm not conviced yet about the throw values of over 30 000 Lux at ~1000 mA, I'll have to test it myself.
Stefan

Be sure to share your results. What meter will you be using?

BTW, I used my Sekonic 408 Meter and used Sekonic's EV to LUX chart. It only gives conversions for every 0.5 EV, so I can only come up with ball park #'s, like 25,000, 30,000 and then just estimate in between.

I can say that I compared lights reviewed on lightreview.info, such as the Dereelight 5-stage w/ smooth reflector, and came up with the same #'s they did. They came up with ~21,500LUX for the Tiablo A8 Q5 I believe, and I got 35,000LUX from my DBS with one of my tests. Now, I will say I was testing with a 3-stage Q4 that malfucntioned and is stuck in high, so I don't know if it's outputting more than it would normally output on high. I had another 3-stage module that also failed and I got around 30,000LUX with that. So either I found a brighter part of the hot spot, the pill is sending more current to the Q4, or the one Q4 is brighter than the other Q4, which is possible (could have one on the low end, one on the high end).

I also have a new reflector for the DBS as the one I got initially had a rainbow around the hot spot. I will have to test the two and see which one has a brighter hot spot. I'm going to wait for the LUX meter from DX to do more testing.