Did we need war w/ Iraq to dig Saddam out a hole?

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ikendu

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Silviron said: Once one decides to hate a person, a political party or a political system so badly, no amount of evidence to the contrary will change their mind.

That is soooooo true.

Actually, the discourse that does take place in America will not change the beliefs of 25% of the right and 25% of the left; for they are so committed to their side that *nothing* will sway them from their support. Also...if someone does post on the right of an issue...the left will assume that ALL of their opinions are on the right. And, the reverse is true, if someone posts on the left of an issue, the right will assume that ALL of their opinions are on the left... as though there are only those two, polar opposite opinions, no shades of gray in between.

It is the 50% (or so...just a guess) of the people in the middle that actually might change their minds about an issue. I pretty rarely post any more on any internet forums...because of this situation. Whenever I do write a post...it is mostly addressed to that middle group. It has taken me a while to learn this (and...I suppose I still am learning).
 

X-CalBR8

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@Ikendu: I'm so glad that you said those words because I very much agree with what you just said. Notice how once I stated that I was against Bush that the first thing that was brought up was the implication that I'm a democrat and that I approve of such as the likes of Hillary Clinton. As I've stated before, just because I'm against Bush, it does not make me a democrat by default.

Silviron said: "Once one decides to hate a person, a political party or a political system so badly, no amount of evidence to the contrary will change their mind."

You are right there. I started out by giving Bush the fair chance that I would any new president, but I just kept finding out one crooked thing about him after the other until I was very much against his reelection and I still am. At this point, I've heard so much crooked stuff out of Bush and his administration that it would take a *lot* of good things to outweigh all of the bad. I really wish that you could have seen that news special that came on PBS a few weeks back and could have seen all of the dirt that they dug up on Bush. You might just change some of your views of him if you knew about more of his back door dealing that he has going on.

GJW said: "I wonder if it's possible to ban someone from just one forum?"

If that baiting remark was directed at me then that was a pretty low down thing to say. I have never called for you or anyone else here to be banned no matter how much I might disagree with your views and I take that statement as a direct insult. If I was the sort of person that was worthy of being banned then I can assure you that I would not be showing such self-restraint here and now against such a blatantly baiting remark.
 

Al_Havemann

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X-CalBR8: This is probably going to tick you off and I'm sorry for that, but I have to say it; your just too suspicious. Did it ever occur to you that basically most people in power really try to do the best job they can and not all are corrupt?. You have a very narrow world view and need to devote some effort to expanding your tolerance. I respect you and enjoy reading your many posts but often the tone borders on paranoia.

I've listened to a lot of bitching about politicians, judges and law enforcement and most of the time those suspicions are just plain wrong. People in power must make decisions, that's their job, that's what we pay them for and they bloody well better do it. If someone in power cannot make decisions when necessary, even unpopular ones, I'll sent them packing as soon as I can.

For the most part though, they're conscientious about it and do the best job they can with the best of intentions. That doesn't mean that the decision are always right, or things don't go wrong anyway. Many choices are made with the information at hand at the time and only after the fact do other factors arise to screw things up. Look at your own decisions over the years and see how many were mucked up after the fact by something that blind sided you. If you tell me that's never happened to you, I won't believe it, it happens to everybody.

This doesn't mean that I think everyone is Lilly white either. I'm 60 years old and have damn few illusions left, but that same 60 years has also given me the ability to rein in my natural suspicions and look at the whole picture, and I don't see it as black as you do.

I've sat in the court room and listened to many cases being tried and watched the judge make the best decision possible with the evidence presented, and it's not always simple or popular. I've watched politicians propose laws and regulations with the hope that what their doing will make a difference for the better. I'm not in law enforcement or politics, nor am I attorney, but I've known and worked with all of them from time to time and these are nearly always just people trying to do the best job they can. Sometimes it works out good and sometimes not. Sure there are bad politicians, bad judges and bad police, but not that many and most are just trying to do their job. Their not out to get you, really.

Just so you know, I'm one of those who pays attention to politics and votes for the best person for the job regardless of their party affiliation. I'm basically liberal in my outlook (this is New York after all, and I voted for Bill Clinton), but I also voted for George Bush because I thought he was the best man (I may be liberal but Gore was just too scary) and I'm not displeased with how he's performing. A few months into the job, faced with the worst situation since Kennedy and Cuba and no idea how to handle it, I think he did as well as anyone could. There are some decisions that I don't agree with but I have to balance my opinion with the knowledge that he has to get his decisions past the senate, the house, Reps from two parties, so I have to cut him some slack.

And yeah, we paid for the war in Iraq so I think we deserve to get some of it back, otherwise it comes out of my paycheck. What should those countries that put up nothing get?. Iraq is going to get the bulk of the income and SOMEONE is going to make money off the rebuilding and modernization, why not the US, especially since we're almost certainly going to "forgive" billions in Iraq debt (one of the decisions I don't agree with) and that "forgiving" will cost all of us.

I happen to be one of those people who doesn't think making money is wrong. You know those rich oil companies your bitching about?, their in most everyone's 401k's, 403b's, Roths and retirement savings programs so these are not rich companies in the sense that their privately owned.

I have to admit, I don't despise rich people (an unpopular view to many), after all, compare my income with most in the US and I'm hardly anything like wealthy. To those in many third world countries though, I'm rich. It's all relative. The rich are rich because their smart enough to get rich. As long as they worked for it honestly, they deserve it. The world needs rich people and I don't begrudge them their success.

And those construction companies that are Bush's buddies?, their the same ones that were winning all the bids when Bill Clinton was president. I notice that nobody complained about it back then.

Al
 

Greta

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Enough! X-Cal is right... this baiting is unacceptable! So put this on your list, guys, as another thread that had to be closed because y'all couldn't act like adults.
 
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