Disappointing Lumapower MRV performance disparity

[Photongun]

After all the hype of late about the revolutionary nature of the MRV in terms of its throw, flanked by output figures from the engineering sample, I am very dissappointed to read that the new specifications are in the order of 10000lux (half the engineering sample) as a new reflector has been choosen for the retail versions.

To me this seems a little underhanded. To give specs such as 17000 lux on a single cell and 20000+ on a couple of cr123's and get people besides themselves with excitement only to effectively half the throwing capacity of the light with a hotspot double the size is bad business.

I don't care if the overal output is the same, you dont make such a drastic change to spec so soon before release...

I am not longer going to purchase the MRV.

The announcement dated May 16 is below.

Any comments?

Refer to MRV's reflector design, we do make bit changes at focus point.

So, the hotspot will be a bit larger that the ES (Engineering Sample) and offer more side spills.
The ES's hotspot is smaller than that of D-Mini, but now larger in size.

The Total output remains unchange unless newer offer from LED supplier.

On the other hand, the 1 meter Lux reading will then decrease to 10,000 plus.

 

[Gunner12]

According to the beam-shots and reviews, the MRV still has about double the throw of the D-Mini. I think they just changed the focus point of the reflector.

 

[fletch31]

I didn't even think the first numbers were real or possible with a reflector and a cree. Most of the light from a cree doesn't even hit the reflector so I don't see how a different reflector with the constraints of the same head size and depth would have made that much difference. Now if the engineering sample had optics instead of flat glass up front then it could have been likely that the first numbers were correct but it didn't. Perhaps the initial lux numbers were quoted in error the first time around or something like that. I don't think it was anything nefarious.

I like the lumapower lights for what they are and batteryjunction is a great dealer in my book. I just cant see how the first numbers could have been real with a reflector anyway.

 

[megawatt]

Whew! Well, that AINT the light I ordered. I ordered it thinking it would have tremendous throw with the PUBLISHED SPECS. First time I ever heard of a company publishing specs, taking orders, then changing the specs without DIRECTLY notifying the buyer to see if the buyer still wanted the "newly speced product". Since I haven't received it yet I cancelled my order. It's kinda like ordering and paying for a pistol with an 8" barrell and the manufacturer sending you a 4" barrel. The lux spec was cut in half. Will the price be cut in half? Nooo.

 

[lumenal]

One thing I've noticed from those lights that are "throw monsters" -usually the hotspot is about as big as a ping-pong ball...

 

[LightScene]

One thing I've noticed from those lights that are "throw monsters" -usually the hotspot is about as big as a ping-pong ball...

That's right. You can only get so much light out of a Cree, and it isn't hard to do.
The reflector is what changes the beam. You can choose a wide or narrow beam, and a smooth or stippled reflector. For max throw and WOW factor get a narrow beam and a smooth reflector, but it will be kind of useless for everyday tasks.

 

[Photongun]

Well I already have a D-mini (which I'm quite happy with) and was only going to be buy the MRV because of its tremendous throw - thus filling a niche in my collection. Considering the stated throw has been cut in half only moments before release I'm no longer interested and a little upset with lumapower to tell the truth.

To stir a frenzy of interest with outlandishly large figures (thus procuring innumerable new customers) and making prepostureously large alterations upon release is a low act.

The figures now, compared to before, are substantially different and whether it was deliberate, or just on a whim, its poor policy and disrespectful to potential customers.

I'm surprised I'm the only one, aside from Megawatt (good for you, sir!), who is fired up. If there was a consensus of disatisfied people they might consider returning the throw spec to its original value!

 

[StefanFS]

Even though it has it's weak points the MRV does have VERY good throw, and it does also have a useful and bright spill area. Since I actually own one of these I can make statements about how I perceive it's performance. Not all in this world is throw lux when it comes to throw. The reflector is built to throw far. With the stock driver it is easily the longest throwing led light I have seen. I know that some people have been making comments about weak spill from the MRV, that's not true in my opinion since my MRV exceeds the spill output from lights known to produce lots of spill, two consumer examples would be Ultrafire C2 and Eastward YJ U2 style.
My review of the MRV:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=164966

Stefan

 

[waynejitsu]

Whew! Well, that AINT the light I ordered. I ordered it thinking it would have tremendous throw with the PUBLISHED SPECS. First time I ever heard of a company publishing specs, taking orders, then changing the specs without DIRECTLY notifying the buyer to see if the buyer still wanted the "newly speced product". Since I haven't received it yet I cancelled my order. It's kinda like ordering and paying for a pistol with an 8" barrell and the manufacturer sending you a 4" barrel. The lux spec was cut in half. Will the price be cut in half? Nooo.

Hmmmm, sounds like the sale of the Rexlight where you pay for one thing and they want to send another.

(Isn't that called "bait & switch?")

 

[MIKES250R]

I have a MRV and absolutely love it . The MRV does have tremendous throw with a tight spot at ten feet. However, at one hundred feet the spot is about ten feet in diameter being very usable for outside work. And if you need more flood all you have to do is rotate the reflector about 3/4 turn counterclockwise and the spot grows about 50%. It is for this reason that I do not feel the need for an orange peel reflector. I have owned many flashlights including several hid,cree and seouls and coming from a stock led NOTHING comes close to the MRV. It is without a doubt my favorite flashlight. I take it everywhere, in the car,fishing,in my pocket it even goes to bed with me at night. If you fail to audition this light in person you really are selling yourself short cause everyone that I have shown this light to had just one word "WOW". I feel that Lumapower in all of their advertisement never overhyped or misrepresented this product as it has met and exceeded all of my expectations.

Michael

 

[Photongun]

Thats fair enough Michael. I'm not denying that it's a [potentially] fantastic light. I'm argueing on principle here. Biiiig spec changes very close to a release date is shonky business, and no one will convince me otherwise.

10000lux of throw is great! But 10000 lux of throw is hardly 20000 lux+ of throw now is it....

 

[selfbuilt]

Even though it has it's weak points the MRV does have VERY good throw, and it does also have a useful and bright spill area.

I own both the MRV and D-mini, and fully agree with Stefan's perceptions and review. The light throws much farther than the D-mini, and still has very useable spill. In fact, I prefer it over the D-mini since it spills over a wider area with about the same intensity.

While I understand people being upset over the change in pre-production specs, I for one bought this list not believing the 20,000 lux number. The only way to do that on a P4 cree would be to overfocus the throw to a very tight hotspot, which wouldn't be practical. As others who have this light have pointed out, the the hotspot size on the shipping version is just right, and it throws further than any other mainstream LED light. You also need to realize that our standard testing paradigm of lux at 1m doesn't work very well for these types of throwers. It's difficult to quantify how much further it throws than the D-mini (I wouldn't say twice as far, but it is a considerable bit further).

It seems to be that if you order a light based on pre-production specs, you have to accept the possibility of some modification in the shipping version. If that change is too great for you, you should have the option to cancel your order (so nothing is lost), or return it for a full refund if you are unhappy with the final product. That seems to me the be the extent of manufacturer's obligation, unless they drastically redesign the light so it doesn't match the original design at all (which isn't the case here, IMO).

That being said, I think Luma made a mistake emphasizing the 20,000 lux number, since it should have been obvious to them that it wasn't feasible (it was to me). Hopefully they will learn from this debacle not to over-promise again in future. Other than that, I think this topic has been beat to death in the manufacturer's forum for the last month or so ....

 

[MIKES250R]

I truly see your point of view. Maybe their initial readings were in error but at least they were honest about it. Fudging of numbers lumens ,lux ,candlepower,etc... has being going on every since flashlights were invented. That is why I really will miss flashlightreview.com. They were able to debunk alot of the sales hype and offer a reasonably objective take on the various lights.
You know you could always buy an MRV and if you didn't feel like it met your expectations turn around and sell it for at least what you have in it. I would probably buy it from you. There is such a demand for it right now it wouldn't last long on e-bay or around here. Have a good day.

Michael

 

[ensile]

not worthy