Driving on ice or snow experiences, or tips

[Poppy]

My son was on the high school hockey team, and on his driver's learner's permit. One night when we left the ice rink, it was snowing. I let him drive. Another father pulled up next to us at a traffic light, and was shocked... "You're letting him drive!?" Well, yeah, I'd rather he learn how to drive in this stuff with me beside him, than on his own.

OK son, try to get up some speed, and momentum here while it is relatively flat. That hill coming up may be a bit of a challenge. Everything you do should be done gently, nothing abrupt. If you feel/hear your tires start to slip, back off on the accelerator a little bit. Then try to gently apply more pressure to the accelerator again. You don't want your tires to be slipping.

He made the hill, and turned the directionals on to turn into our development. I told him... nah, continue straight, make a left at the light. The next left was into the High School Parking lot. "Let's do some doughnuts!" He did great!

He learned what might cause a skid, and how to try to control it, and how to try to avoid it in the first place.

What was your first experience driving on ice or snow?
Do you have any tips?

 

[aznsx]

My son was on the high school hockey team, and on his driver's learner's permit. One night when we left the ice rink, it was snowing. I let him drive. Another father pulled up next to us at a traffic light, and was shocked... "You're letting him drive!?" Well, yeah, I'd rather he learn how to drive in this stuff with me beside him, than on his own.

OK son, try to get up some speed, and momentum here while it is relatively flat. That hill coming up may be a bit of a challenge. Everything you do should be done gently, nothing abrupt. If you feel/hear your tires start to slip, back off on the accelerator a little bit. Then try to gently apply more pressure to the accelerator again. You don't want your tires to be slipping.

He made the hill, and turned the directionals on to turn into our development. I told him... nah, continue straight, make a left at the light. The next left was into the High School Parking lot. "Let's do some doughnuts!" He did great!

He learned what might cause a skid, and how to try to control it, and how to try to avoid it in the first place.

What was your first experience driving on ice or snow?
Do you have any tips?

Lots of experiences, which is likely why now I just avoid it at almost any cost.

Tip: If you can't avoid it, Bridgestone Blizzaks are (or were) pretty highly rated. I've tried the Michelin X-Ice, but the Blizzaks are likely better.

 

[Poppy]

What made me think of this topic is that this morning, we had freezing rain. That happens when the ground is colder than 32 degrees F, and it starts to drizzle. The light rain turns to the most slipperiest ice on the planet!

One year when I was in school in Georgia, we had freezing rain. I pulled out of my parking spot, drove maybe 20 feet and slammed on the brakes to test how much traction I'd have. Oh... Boy! I pulled into the first parking spot I could. I walked back to my apartment and made myself a cup of tea. The news reported multiple, multiple car crashes.

So many of us Yankees laughed at how these Southerners don't know how to drive. I said nonsense. We up North have snow removal equipment, and sanding, and salting equipment. And yes, we do have some more practice,

So, this morning we had freezing rain. Last night, the school announced they would have a 90 minute delayed opening. Good idea! As the kids were getting ready for school, I looked outside, and could see the "black ice" and said to myself, I will not drive them to school for at least another hour. They will just have to be late. Any administrator who has a problem with that, will just have to deal with me.

School was cancelled for the day. They should have called it an hour sooner. The cancellation may have been prompted by the news reporting's of multiple, multiple car crashes. One was a 20 car pile up with two deaths. Fortunately, not in our town, but only about ten miles away.

IMO in freezing rain, the best driving practice is to stay at home.

 

[aznsx]

Discretion was likely the better part of valor this morning Poppy, and I'm glad you exercised some and stayed safe. You can have the best equipment, and all the right skills and experience, and still find yourself in a starring role in another person's worst nightmare in seconds.

Yesterday / today I saw TV video showing some familiar spots along a section of I95 I used to drive at least weekly, and it looked like a train wreck with more lights.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

I've learned a few tricks driving on slick roads as follows:
1)If you drive a manual transmission gear up, that is try and pull out in second gear instead of first and keep the RPMs low shifting to the next gear a lot earlier than you are used to.
2)Plan ahead think in your mind it will take a block to slow down and stop for every 10 mph you are going at the least
3)Look at the road as far ahead as you can especially intersections where they can be extra slick from people spinning out and melting ice/snow refreezing
4)Be prepared to steer into a curb when approaching an intersection in case you find you can't stop, it may damage your tires some but that is a lot cheaper than being in a wreck
5)check tire pressure sometimes lowering tire pressure will actually help with traction some as it can spread out the weight on a tire over a larger area
6)toss sandbags or heavy items in the back of rear wheel drive vehicles especially trucks as the extra weight will help traction and some items can be uses on roads to help traction when you are stuck.
7)Check brakes in safe areas to get a good idea how slick things are before you start driving in busy areas and slow down accordingly if roads are slicker than expected.
8)If your wheels start slipping let off the gas and coast so your driving wheels won't slide instead of braking hard as it is easy to lock up wheels losing all control and slipping wheels can grab unevenly causing a vehicle to slide sideways even spin out it is best to keep moving in a straight line sometimes than spinning out and stopping as out of control stopping is a lot more unpredictable to your vehicle and others that may be trying to avoid hitting you.
9)look ahead to intersections and look especially at potential crossing traffic adjusting speed ahead of time just in case they can't stop so you are clear of potential accidents. Keep in mind pacing of your vehicle to match traffic crossing also in case you find you are unable to stop and have to run a stop sign or traffic light. Worry less about running stop lights and stop signs than avoiding accidents and losing control of your vehicle as often you will be surprised by roads and inexperienced drivers.
10)Plan trips to use least slick roads possible with the least traffic and as others have related best time of day including waiting for road conditions to improve. Impatience leads to recklessness.


Make sure and notify other people if making extended trips especially on remote roads where there can be very low traffic just in case you get stuck. Make sure your cell phone is charged up to a decent level also just in case and if driving in the evening be a flashaholic for sure.

 

[scout24]

In the immortal words of Joe Nolan of New York traffic reporting fame, "Four wheel go does not mean four wheel stop." Way to many people with 4wd learn that the hard way. It may get you up the hill with no drama, but you still need to know how to get down the hill like a regular car. Slow down. 4wd lets you carry way too much momentum into turns and over hills.
Snow tires- Back in the day, Firestone made Town and Country snow tires. Big, cleated, lugged tires that today would look at home on a 4wd pickup. They were fantastic. You need snow tires. Not all season, not 3 peak snow rated tires, but actual snow tires. Blizzaks. General Altimax. Nokians. If you think you're ok on all seasons because your car passed inspection back in the spring, please stay home. Snow tires. New snow tires. Two seasons at most on them. Snow tires with 5/32" of tread are about as useless as all seasons. Cheap insurance.

 

[kerneldrop]

We moved to the smoky mountains and that was fun. I had mud tires because I'm from Louisiana …those don't kick in on ice until you're off the pavement. Lol

 

[ironhorse]

Dad had me drive the truck in a snow covered field. He also taught me how to do donuts. (Yes it was our field). Good memories.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

In the immortal words of Joe Nolan of New York traffic reporting fame, "Four wheel go does not mean four wheel stop."

But we have "four wheel stop" because cars have brakes on all four wheels. I get the intent of the adage-- four wheel drive does let you gain speed so easily that you feel like you have traction.

Snow tires
You need snow tires. Not all season, not 3 peak snow rated tires, but actual snow tires. Blizzaks. General Altimax. Nokians. If you think you're ok on all seasons because your car passed inspection back in the spring, please stay home. Snow tires. New snow tires.

Snow tires for sure! A friend has an RX300 that he got another set of factory wheels for so he can swap out the snow tires. He chose the Michelin X-Ice XI2 (or however that is stylized) and let me borrow it after an ice storm. The RX300 has a "snow mode" that locks out first gear (unless you move the gear selector to 1), and it was almost a dream to drive. I still had to be careful but the snow tires had much better traction than expected when cornering and coming to stops.

Also, in case people want to cheap out-- you can't get the benefits of snow tires if you only put them on one axle. Put them on all four wheels, regardless of your vehicle's drive system (FWD/RWD/AWD/4WD).

 

[knucklegary]

Dad had me drive the truck in a snow covered field. He also taught me how to do donuts. (Yes it was our field). Good memories.

It's helpful to learn controlled panic at an early age

 

[idleprocess]

I have an unreasonable amount of experience driving on ice for a southerner, which I chalk up to working in critical infrastructure for so long where I was expected to make it to work if at all able. I learned to take things incredibly slow - accelerating, turning, braking - and to make extremely deliberate maneuvers. I found that one of the biggest hurdles to overcome was making driving a fully conscious continuous activity, which is not of itself easy under normal conditions and doubly so when taking more than 4 times as long to go anywhere and nothing of particular interest is happening some >99% of the time.

 

[Eicca]

As someone who (perhaps foolishly) keeps buying RWD V8 sedans while living in snowy states, I can confidently say that engine braking is your friend in such a vehicle. Go slow, choose a gear that keeps your rpm around 1.8k (3rd or 2nd for me) and downshift the instant you see a stop coming. The rear wheels will create drag and keep the front of the car pointed forward. Whereas hitting the brakes will create a pivot point at the front wheels and increase the risk of a spin.

Going on my 6th winter with RWD and no real trouble yet. I haven't even put snow tires on.

Intentionally sliding in wide open parking lots is also a valuable thing to do as you learn how your vehicle behaves at the limits of grip. Makes correcting a skid more instinctive and less panic-inducing.

 

[Chauncey Gardener]

On January 4th our area was experiencing lots of black ice -

It's always best to avoid driving, or walking on it for that matter, if at all possible.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Fresh ice tires are best. Consider that the other driver is possibly going to do something irrational because of panic. Anticipate and concentrate. Experiment in a safe location. Turn into spins to gain traction again; hopefully you have planned in advance that it could happen. Stay at home whenever possible by planning in advance. Avoid those 4X4 weekend warriors who think they can drive faster than everyone else because of 4 wheel drive. Typically they take longer to stop because of their unloaded pickup trucks.

 

[idleprocess]

Avoid those 4X4 weekend warriors who think they can drive faster than everyone else because of 4 wheel drive.

Every time that the DFW area ices over it seems like the Jeep Wrangler crew is out there in force disproportionately spun out into a ditch while it's fullsize pickup trucks doing the lion's share of good Samaritan vehicle recovery.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

(The Inter-Mountain)

 

[Poppy]

Undoubtedly, I see more SUVs down in a ditch than any other type/class of vehicle.

Along with the many excellent suggestions above, I'd like to add:
Try to never come to a full stop, especially if you have to go up hill to the traffic light. Getting started going up hill can sometimes be a no go.

Regarding snow tires:
I can testify that they make a significant difference, compared to regular highway tires.
I worked for three months for a tree trimming company, and a week after I got laid off I had to drive out to pick up my last paycheck. It had just started to snow, and I hadn't put on my snows yet. I decided to put them in my trunk (they were on wheels) and later I would swap them on.

It was a 40 minute ride and the roads were getting pretty slippery. While waiting for the guys to show up, I swapped my snows on. Despite the roads being worse, the car handled so much better. I was stunned, but happy!

My first front wheel drive car was a 1982 Buick Century I bought for my wife. It had a 4 cyl, dog of an engine. I bought a spare set of wheels, and very aggressive snows for it. Her parents lived at the bottom of a very steep hill, and getting up that hill was always a challenge. Not for this car. I was once on interstate 80, and all lanes were stopped, or crawling, because some cars couldn't make the incline. The car in front of me was spinning his wheels. I got behind him and pushed him until he got going.

lol... to be continued.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Hakkapeliitta tires from years ago were talented but not long lasting if used under normal driving conditions (my mistake). Michelin X-ice tires were capable and much longer lasting but by that time we had another set of rims for them so not really a fair comparison. Has anyone heard that snow tires give worse dry pavement braking performance than conventional tires?

 

[Duster1671]

Living in New England my whole life I have plenty of experience driving in the snow. I'm firmly in the "avoid it whenever possible" camp. It's just way more dangerous than driving on bare pavement no matter how experienced you are.

Since it's often not possible to avoid driving in the snow, I drive an AWD wagon with good snow tires (Blizzak DMV-1). That's about as good as you can get for a practical road vehicle in the snow.

I consider the snow tires much more essential than the AWD. AWD helps you not get stuck, which could be dangerous but usually isn't. It's an inconvenience. Snow tires also help you not get stuck, but more importantly they help you stop and go around corners without losing control. Much more important from a safety perspective. I'd rather drive a FWD car with good tires than an AWD car with mediocre tires.

 

[aznsx]

Has anyone heard that snow tires give worse dry pavement braking performance than conventional tires?

No, but it's practically axiomatic that there will be tradeoffs, and that might very well be one of them. Unless gross, it would not enter into my decision to use stud-less ice / snow (such as Blizzak) tires in the Winter in climates calling for such, nor to switch back when the seasons allow. If one were interested, 'tire rack' has a wealth of empirical testing info that would likely allow one to make that comparison if desired. I can say I once ran a set of similar purpose Michelin X-Ice stud-less variant until way past their useful life for the intended purpose (due to damage to my primary wheels), and I was surprised by their long term dry pavement performance, although I wouldn't want to repeat that test