Dynamo driven led light questions

bbaker22

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Recently, I started thinking about driving an LED light with my Shimano 6V 3W dyno-hub, instead of driving the lame incandescent Shimano light.

So, I bought a bridge rectifier from Rat Shack and hooked it up between the dyno and a 5w luxeon. Seemed to drive the LED fairly well.

Then, I hooked up the dyno/rectifier to a 3xTV1J light I created a couple years ago:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=1446875&postcount=17

Seems pretty darn bright. I wasn't sure the dyno would drive the 3 LuxIII's, but it doesn't seem to have any probs. It might not light up as early at the LuxV, but I'm not sure.

Can anyone explain how the dyno works? In other words, how does it effectively drive a 6V load (the LuxV) or a 9V load (3 LuxIII's)?

I'm considering building a new light w/ either 2 or 3 led's (prob Cree Q5's) and I'm wondering the pros/cons of choosing 2 vs 3 led's. I assume I'll produce more light w/ the 3 led's, but can I expect worse low speed performance?

Is there a way to know what current/voltage the dynohub will produce given a specific config (i.e. 2 q5's versus 3 q5's)?

Thanks,
baker
 

ET3

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The dynamo should produce maximum power (3W) at its rated voltage (6V). Two LEDs in series would be closer to 6V.
 

Steve K

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hi ya,

Ain't hub dynamos great!! :)

To avoid the need for a proper regulator circuit, dynamos are usually operated near their short-circuit current. For instance, if you short out the dynamo, you'll get roughly 0.5A. The nice thing about this is that you get this current at almost all speeds. All the user has to do is find a suitable bulb that has a low resistance and can handle 0.5A, and there is no need for a regulator.

For those who want more power, this can be obtained by increasing the resistance of the load/bulb/led. This moves the point of operation away from the short-circuit current, and towards the open-circuit voltage. The advantage is that more power can be obtained. The disadvantage is that the open-circuit voltage is proportional to the speed, so the voltage will be less regulated.

As the load resistance is increased, the maximum power point will eventually be reached. This means that the maximum amount of power will be delivered to the load. Any further increase in load resistance will reduce the power delivered to the load. It should be noted that since the open-circuit voltage varies with speed, the maximum power point will too.

So what the heck does all this mean?? Well, it means that you can get more light from your dynamo by adding leds in series, but after some point, you'll get less light each time you add another led. It also means that for every led you add in series, you'll have to go faster to get the leds to start producing light.

For me, I have to ride my bike up some very steep slopes, so I need the light to work at 5mph. As such, the Lux V is good enough. The light is adequate at cruising speeds, and acceptable at very slow speeds.

Some people will rig up a switch to just use one or two leds at low speeds, and add leds in series at higher speeds. In the simplest form, this is just a toggle switch that shorts out one or two leds. Fancier designs have used circuits to detect the dynamo's speed, and automatically switch leds in or out.

I'm betting that Shimano engineers know how much current and voltage their dynamos produce at varying speeds and load resistances, but I've never seen it. I have seen some data for the Schmidt hub dynamo, and I've personally verified that it can produce over 100v at 50mph. To generate some data, I've fixed a digital multimeter to the handlebars, and rode around with various resistive loads and at varying speeds. Very interesting... :)

good luck,
Steve K.
 

alexlockhart

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Steve K pretty much said all this, but I'm putting it in different terms which may be easier to understand. If it seems I'm contradicting something he said, either I'm wrong or you're misunderstanding one of us.

Your dynamo is a constant-current device, outputting 0.5A at all speeds. It's rated for 6V and 3W at 5mph and above, but that rating is based on it driving the incan bulb, which is a 12ohm load. It can output 0.5A at up to about 1V per 1mph, so you can get 12V and 6W at about 12mph, and so on. You can take advantage of the dynamo's inherent current limitation to safely wire your Cree Q5s in series after the bridge rectifier (as you've done). You will then be driving them at about half their rated power, but that's about 2/3 their maximum brightness, and they're so darn bright that that'll probably be plenty. The LEDs require about 2.5V minimum to light, so multiply 2.5 times the number of them you have in series, and that's about the mph where they'll start to come on. At 0.5A, they draw almost 2W each, and the dynamo can deliver about 1W per 2mph, so they'll be at full brightness at about 4mph each - that is, 2 LEDs in series will start to come on at about 5mph, and will be at full brightness at about 8mph and above. As Steve K said, you can use a switch to put more or less of them in the circuit, so you could build a light with 4 of them with a switch to cut out 2 of them, so you could light 2 of them at 5mph and switch on the other 2 at 10mph, getting full brightness with all 4 at about 16mph. You can use as many or as few as you think would work well for the speeds you'll be going.

Now for some minor hijacking, but it should be helpful to the OP...
To generate some data, I've fixed a digital multimeter to the handlebars, and rode around with various resistive loads and at varying speeds. Very interesting... :)
Very interesting, indeed. I have big plans in my head to build a complete electric system for my bike, with a Schmidt to generate power, a Li-Ion pack to store it, a multi-Cree headlight and single-Cree taillight, and a regulated 12V output so I can charge batteries while out on tour. I've been doing a lot of armchair research on the Schmidt, and found the data I wrote above. In a nutshell, it seems that given a variable load, it could scale up power with speed indefinitely, always producing 0.5A, with a maximum of 1V per mph and 1W per 2mph.

I would very much like to see the results of your test run at different speeds with different loads. Have you found that it scales maximum power up linearly with speed, as I'd expect? Do you have a way to vary the resistance as you ride to see what it does with various loads at a given speed? What voltage does it put out below the speed required for the given load? That is, it's rated for 6V and 3W with a 12ohm load at 5mph, but what voltage does it output with the 12ohm load at 2mph? Or, at normal speeds, what voltage and current does it output when given a 48ohm load (which would theoretically output 24V, 12W at 24mph) at 10 or 15mph?

I'm interested in all this because I want to try to regulate its output to 12VDC so I can feed that into battery chargers designed to run on 12VDC, and I want to make maximum use of its potential. Thus, if it really can output 12W at 24mph with a 48ohm load, I want to design the circuit to take advantage of that for high speeds. Also, I want to make use of its power at speeds below the 12mph that would make 12V/6W, but need to know what voltage it outputs at low speeds if given a big load.

Alex
 

ktronik

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I use a cap circuit after the diode refic...to run 3 in series...1.1A max to 3 LED (47uf bi polar) for on road I use 100uf for off road I use 200uf...

I get 12.8w out of the shimano dyno hub...

12.8w is the max I can get with this circuit...

I have full stats if needed...

best

Ktronik
 

Steve K

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not to encourage thread hi-jacking, but.... this could be applicable to the Shimano dynamo too..

I don't know what I ever did with my data. I don't think I got too far with measuring output with resistive loads. A fellow named Nick Ray, who used to be on the Bike Current list, did some bench tests and generated this data:

SON output voltage as a function of frequency and load resistance.

load resistance
freq 10 12 14 16 18 20 25 30 35
10
15
20
25 4.8 5.6 6.2 6.8 7.3 7.7 8.5 9 9.35
30 5 5.9 6.7 7.4 8 8.5 9.6 10.3 10.8
35 5.2 6.1 7 7.8 8.5 9.15 10.5 11.4 12.2
40 5.3 6.3 7.2 8.1 8.9 9.6 11.2 12.4 13.3
45 5.4 6.4 7.4 8.3 9.2 10 11.8 13.2 14.3
50 5.4 6.5 7.6 8.5 9.5 10.3 12.3 13.8 15.2
55 5.5 6.6 7.7 8.7 9.6 10.5 12.6 14.4 15.9
60 5.6 6.7 7.7 8.8 9.8 10.7 12.9 14.8 16.5

(dang... how do I get this formatted properly?)
If you plot this all out, things can get interesting. Then run the calculations to determine power, and see where the peak power occurs, what the dynamo source impedance is, etc. A plot of dynamo voltage vs current at each frequency is good to see too. It really illustrates the fact that dynamos are not constant current devices. Instead, they are typical sources which have a source impedance. Unfortunately, the impedance is different at each frequency, which does suggest that it is primarily inductive.

Unfortunately, I don't recall what frequency Nick was measuring. The numbers seem too small to be the frequency of the AC voltage coming out of the SON.

Alex, you mentioned battery charging. I fiddled with that for a year or two, and learned a couple of things that may be of interest:

1. when the battery is fully charged and there's no significant load on the dynamo, the dynamo can generate fairly high voltages. I was seeing around 100v, so I designed my battery charger to handle 100v, and added a 96v zener at the input.

2. batteries aren't that fond of being charged when the temperature is below freezing. I used my system solely for powering the headlight, and while it worked fine most of the year, it just couldn't keep the battery charged in the winter.

My battery charger was pretty simple. It was a PWM design that applied power when the battery voltage was below the desired charge voltage, and removed it when it was above. It used a quad op-amp, a voltage reference, and assorted resistors, capacitors, a few transistors, etc. The main virtue was that it was very efficient, since there wasn't an inductor, filter cap, flyback diode, etc.

Steve K.
 

bbaker22

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Everyone, thanks for all the input. Alex, you're talking in terms that a simpleton like myself can understand! The speed at which 2 vs 3 led's will light, achieve full brightness, etc.

Ktronik, your stuff is over my head, but what I think would be pretty neat would be to have switchable curves. Position 1 would be the off-road curve, and Position 2 would be the on-road curve. That way, I can use the same wheel/light combo on 2 different bikes (my road bike and my 29er mountain bike). I need to go back and look at your circuit diagrams now that I'm gaining a better understanding all this mumbo-jumbo. :)

baker
 
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ktronik

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Everyone, thanks for all the input. Alex, you're talking in terms that a simpleton like myself can understand! The speed at which 2 vs 3 led's will light, achieve full brightness, etc.

Ktronik, your stuff is over my head, but what I think would be pretty neat would be to have switchable curves. Position 1 would be the off-road curve, and Position 2 would be the on-road curve. That way, I can use the same wheel/light combo on 2 different bikes (my road bike and my 29er mountain bike). I need to go back and look at your circuit diagrams now that I'm gaining a better understanding all this mumbo-jumbo. :)

baker

I run was running 2 cruves, for off road 24hr racing on my 29er!! GO 29ER!!! GO BIG OR GO HOME!!!

their are many great circuits out there... mine is just a super simple one... 2 caps & 4 diodes...a monkey could to solder it together (I have many trained to do my work) ...I have also drawn a pic of how to put it together... as you said the magic word...29er I will help...

email me [email protected] & I will send ya the details... it will make sence once you see the spreadsheet & pic...

ktronik
 

alexlockhart

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ktronic's circuits use a capacitor in series with the LEDs, which gives him that brightness curve. That can be helpful, especially if you can switch between a curve that is bright at lower speeds and one that is brighter at higher speeds, but you should be able to get a similar effect just by switching LEDs in and out of the circuit at different speeds. Now that your 29er has his attention, you can probably get better info from him about the effect of a series capacitor.

Also, I'm a good armchair researcher, but I don't have any hands-on experience with dynamos, so you should pay more attention to those who do.

I felt comfortable "hijacking" the thread because I know that while the SON and the Shimano dynamos are a little different, they operate on the same principle, and the same electronics will work in the same way on both, so our discussion of what the SON can do will be helpful to baker for what the Shimano can do.

Steve, that data looks like it might be really useful, but it needs some formatting and labeling. Here's a go at formatting it:
Code:
load resistance
freq    10      12      14      16      18      20      25      30      35
10
15
20
25      04.80   05.60   06.20   06.80   07.30   07.70   08.50   09.00   09.35
30      05.00   05.90   06.70   07.40   08.00   08.50   09.60   10.30   10.80
35      05.20   06.10   07.00   07.80   08.50   09.15   10.50   11.40   12.20
40      05.30   06.30   07.20   08.10   08.90   09.60   11.20   12.40   13.30
45      05.40   06.40   07.40   08.30   09.20   10.00   11.80   13.20   14.30
50      05.40   06.50   07.60   08.50   09.50   10.30   12.30   13.80   15.20
55      05.50   06.60   07.70   08.70   09.60   10.50   12.60   14.40   15.90
60      05.60   06.70   07.70   08.80   09.80   10.70   12.90   14.80   16.50
I used the code tags to make it display everything fixed-width, then added leading and trailing zeroes to the numbers as necessary to make them all have 2 digits before and after the decimal point, then put the right number of spaces between them so that it would all display properly. Now it's your turn to label this stuff properly: Are the numbers in the left column representing frequency? Are the numbers across the top representing load in ohms? Are the numbers in the chart representing volts, amps, watts? You should be able to copy and paste the stuff I put in the code box and edit it to include the labels for what is what (just use spaces to get stuff to line up right) and re-post it with the code tags around it. That data will help anyone, baker included, to know what kind of power a hub dynamo puts out as its speed (frequency) changes.

I'll probably just have to get one of these things myself and do some experimenting, but I'm trying to learn as much as possible beforehand.

And yes, I know that the voltage of the dynamo can get scary high when it has a low (or no) load across it, but I'm planning to rectify and regulate its power to a constant 12VDC before I do anything else with it, so I'm hoping/assuming that a proper reg/rec circuit will only load the dynamo as much as it needs to get the requested output power, and I won't have to worry about its unloaded voltage, since that will never make it past the reg/rec circuit. Then I'll use that regulated power to run a Li-Ion pack charger designed for 12VDC input. I'll be losing a little efficiency at each step of power massaging, but I don't know how else to reliably get the batteries charged and allow them to be used (for powering lights, etc) at the same time. Also, working with regulated 12VDC for everything will mean the power can come from or go to anywhere automatically as needed. And I also know Li-Ions can't be charged below freezing, I don't have a good solution for that besides maybe manually switching off the charger at temps below freezing, and hoping I have enough time above freezing to keep the batteries charged. I'm not planning to be riding much in places where it's below freezing, so it may not be much of a problem.

Alex
 

Steve K

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Steve, that data looks like it might be really useful, but it needs some formatting and labeling. Here's a go at formatting it:
Code:
load resistance
freq    10      12      14      16      18      20      25      30      35
10
15
20
25      04.80   05.60   06.20   06.80   07.30   07.70   08.50   09.00   09.35
30      05.00   05.90   06.70   07.40   08.00   08.50   09.60   10.30   10.80
35      05.20   06.10   07.00   07.80   08.50   09.15   10.50   11.40   12.20
40      05.30   06.30   07.20   08.10   08.90   09.60   11.20   12.40   13.30
45      05.40   06.40   07.40   08.30   09.20   10.00   11.80   13.20   14.30
50      05.40   06.50   07.60   08.50   09.50   10.30   12.30   13.80   15.20
55      05.50   06.60   07.70   08.70   09.60   10.50   12.60   14.40   15.90
60      05.60   06.70   07.70   08.80   09.80   10.70   12.90   14.80   16.50
I used the code tags to make it display everything fixed-width, then added leading and trailing zeroes to the numbers as necessary to make them all have 2 digits before and after the decimal point, then put the right number of spaces between them so that it would all display properly. Now it's your turn to label this stuff properly: Are the numbers in the left column representing frequency? Are the numbers across the top representing load in ohms? Are the numbers in the chart representing volts, amps, watts? You should be able to copy and paste the stuff I put in the code box and edit it to include the labels for what is what (just use spaces to get stuff to line up right) and re-post it with the code tags around it. That data will help anyone, baker included, to know what kind of power a hub dynamo puts out as its speed (frequency) changes.
Alex


let's see if this works....

Code:
         load resistance, ohms
freq    10      12      14      16      18      20      25      30      35
10
15
20
25      04.80   05.60   06.20   06.80   07.30   07.70   08.50   09.00   09.35
30      05.00   05.90   06.70   07.40   08.00   08.50   09.60   10.30   10.80
35      05.20   06.10   07.00   07.80   08.50   09.15   10.50   11.40   12.20
40      05.30   06.30   07.20   08.10   08.90   09.60   11.20   12.40   13.30
45      05.40   06.40   07.40   08.30   09.20   10.00   11.80   13.20   14.30
50      05.40   06.50   07.60   08.50   09.50   10.30   12.30   13.80   15.20
55      05.50   06.60   07.70   08.70   09.60   10.50   12.60   14.40   15.90
60      05.60   06.70   07.70   08.80   09.80   10.70   12.90   14.80   16.50
The values in the table are volts measured at the load. Probably Vrms, I assume.
The left column labeled "frequency" is uncertain, but I'm assuming it's the frequency of the SON output. IIRC, the SON has 26 poles, so at 1 rev/second, the output would be 26Hz. Running through the calculations, with a nominal wheel diameter of 27 inches, that should mean that 25Hz yields 4.63mph, 30Hz yields 5.56mph, etc, up to 60Hz yielding 11.1mph. Pretty slow stuff for most of us.

Calculating the power produced at each data point shows that over 7 watts was being produced with the 35 ohm load at 11.1mph. The data hints that 35 ohms is not the load that will yield the max output power, and that a larger impedance load would be better. I wonder how much power you could get at 20mph??


And yes, I know that the voltage of the dynamo can get scary high when it has a low (or no) load across it, but I'm planning to rectify and regulate its power to a constant 12VDC before I do anything else with it, so I'm hoping/assuming that a proper reg/rec circuit will only load the dynamo as much as it needs to get the requested output power, and I won't have to worry about its unloaded voltage, since that will never make it past the reg/rec circuit. Then I'll use that regulated power to run a Li-Ion pack charger designed for 12VDC input. I'll be losing a little efficiency at each step of power massaging, but I don't know how else to reliably get the batteries charged and allow them to be used (for powering lights, etc) at the same time. Also, working with regulated 12VDC for everything will mean the power can come from or go to anywhere automatically as needed. And I also know Li-Ions can't be charged below freezing, I don't have a good solution for that besides maybe manually switching off the charger at temps below freezing, and hoping I have enough time above freezing to keep the batteries charged. I'm not planning to be riding much in places where it's below freezing, so it may not be much of a problem.
Alex

It might be difficult to find a regulator that can run at input voltages between 12v and 100v. This isn't a typical power source. Things are improving, though. A number of switchers designed for automotive applications are tolerant of 80v or slightly more, so you may be safe in most cases. Just don't go down hills at 50mph.

Steve K.
 

tspoon

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When contemplating this kind of trickery, just be aware that Shimano, and SRAM, have just announced their new models of Hub Dynamo, and apparently these are high efficiency DC output designs (similar to the Lightspin, and Lumo S6/12 models). You need a 'traditional' AC output model to be able to do this AFAIK, so look for the current/ older models from these manufacturers.
 

ktronik

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When contemplating this kind of trickery, just be aware that Shimano, and SRAM, have just announced their new models of Hub Dynamo, and apparently these are high efficiency DC output designs (similar to the Lightspin, and Lumo S6/12 models). You need a 'traditional' AC output model to be able to do this AFAIK, so look for the current/ older models from these manufacturers.


Hey Tspoon,

you got anymore info on the hubs?? as the shimano rep told me that they are playing with High power LEDs in Japan...if infact they are coming out with a DC version, then they have a LED system for sure!!

good times are here...I love my dynamo, @ having just coming off a winter's comuitting to work, I can tell ya, it would be hard to use batterys again...

ktronik
 

tspoon

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ktronik

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Run these two through Google translate if you don't know any german (I don't). The SRAM appears to definitely be DC output

http://www.radfahren.de/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2933&mode=&order=0&thold=0
http://www.radfahren.de/modules.php...le&sid=2933&imgid=4865&subtopic=120&photonr=3

The Shimano is for sale at :
http://www.roseversand.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=156&detail=10&detail2=13891

The german article seems to indicate that the 3N80 is DC output.

yes you are right... the translated version states that both are direct current...

I will have to try to get one to test...

thanks

Ktronik
 

alexlockhart

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The values in the table are volts measured at the load. Probably Vrms, I assume.
The left column labeled "frequency" is uncertain, but I'm assuming it's the frequency of the SON output. IIRC, the SON has 26 poles, so at 1 rev/second, the output would be 26Hz. Running through the calculations, with a nominal wheel diameter of 27 inches, that should mean that 25Hz yields 4.63mph, 30Hz yields 5.56mph, etc, up to 60Hz yielding 11.1mph. Pretty slow stuff for most of us.

Calculating the power produced at each data point shows that over 7 watts was being produced with the 35 ohm load at 11.1mph. The data hints that 35 ohms is not the load that will yield the max output power, and that a larger impedance load would be better. I wonder how much power you could get at 20mph??
Now this is really getting useful, and fascinating. I agree totally with your calculations of wheel size and resulting speeds, since all the resulting data confirms the published specs for the "standard" loads of one 6V/3W bulb, or two in series, at various speeds.

I put all this data into a spreadsheet so I could make it calculate the amperage and wattage, and so I could create graphs. Without further ado:

schmidt_son_voltage.jpg



schmidt_son_amperage.jpg



schmidt_son_wattage.jpg


The voltage is the predictable one, scaling up with speed and/or load, with low loads tapering off almost level at higher speeds. The amperage is very similar, scaling up slower, with the smaller loads tapering off almost level at higher speeds. The interesting thing here is the really low amperage from high loads at low speeds. You're right that this is not truly a constant-current device, but the reason it's called that is because within certain ranges of speed and load (normal cycling speeds with the 12ohm load it's designed for), the amperage is very close to constant. Also, it seems the maximum it can ever produce is around 570mA, which is consistent with published specs, so maybe it should be called a "maximum-amperage device".

But the wattage is the really fascinating one. Again, the low loads are somewhat predictable, we're approaching the saturation point of the generator at 11mph with them, and I'm sure that they would truly level off at higher speeds. The high loads, though, show a marked drop in wattage at low speeds. Up to about 8mph, the 35ohm load produces less wattage than the others, and at 4.6mph, the 18ohm and 20ohm load are pretty close to the maximum wattage. So we've found the curve, or at least part of it, for maximum wattage at a given speed.

Extrapolating off the ends of our data ranges, I imagine that higher loads would show an even steeper wattage curve. For example, 50ohms at 5mph would produce somewhere around 12V, 90mA, and 1W, but at 20mph might produce 25V, 570mA, and 15W. The output from lower loads becomes flat at 11mph, but higher loads obviously have a higher saturation point, with the 35ohm load probably not flattening until over 20mph.

Now I really want to get one of these and start experimenting. I could use household incandescent light bulbs as my load since they can take AC or DC up to 120V. A 300W bulb is a 48 ohm load, which might be a good starting point to see if I can go fast enough (it's easy to hit 40mph on a good downhill) to find where that load starts saturating the generator, and the output starts flattening. I could work back from there using automotive bulbs with lower impedances to create a sort of chart with what load gives the max wattage at various speeds. The neat thing is that the graphs show a very consistent maximum wattage of about 0.7 the speed in mph. So if you could vary the load based on the speed, it seems that would continue to scale up power linearly. This makes sense, because the generator should be able to extract a constant percentage of the power available (determined by the speed). So that 40mph descent, if using the right load, could produce 30W. (From a generator rated for 3W!!) Then I'd have to design a regulator circuit to take advantage of that. If I could get them mass-produced on a little circuit board like TaskLED does, I bet I could sell them like hotcakes.

It might be difficult to find a regulator that can run at input voltages between 12v and 100v. This isn't a typical power source. Things are improving, though. A number of switchers designed for automotive applications are tolerant of 80v or slightly more, so you may be safe in most cases. Just don't go down hills at 50mph.
Yeah, I've been looking and looking with no luck. I might have to use a "regular" regulator and cap the input voltage to protect it. Seeing the power available is well over what I'd thought, I'd feel fine about "throwing away" the extra available at high speeds.

Sorry for running away with the thread like this. Baker and ktronic, if you're still reading, you can make use of this data too. My previous estimates of when your LED will come on and reach full brightness should be lowered by about 2mph, it seems, and that would match ktronic's experience with his LuxV. Again, the Shimano hubs you have work on the same principles and are designed for the same power production at the same speeds as the Schmidt that this data was taken from, so your actual numbers might be slightly different, but should be close enough as to be the same.

When contemplating this kind of trickery, just be aware that Shimano, and SRAM, have just announced their new models of Hub Dynamo, and apparently these are high efficiency DC output designs (similar to the Lightspin, and Lumo S6/12 models). You need a 'traditional' AC output model to be able to do this AFAIK, so look for the current/ older models from these manufacturers.
Thanks for the links! Of course they just say 6V/3W like everyone else, but I'll try to dig up some more technical data on them. It does certainly seem that with the move to LED lighting becoming more mainstream, it would make sense for newer dynamos to output DC directly so it can more easily be used by LED lights.

Alex
 
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Central Scrutinizer

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Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
2
I found these circuits on the web; might be helpful:

http://www.pilom.com/BicycleElectronics/DynamoCircuits.htm

I recently built the "Manual Switching between Voltage Doubler and Bridge Rectifier" circuit, using 3 1-watt Luxeons, driven from a simple 6v 3w bottle dynamo. The light comes on almost instantly on the "low speed" setting and puts out a decent amount of light. Don't have enough rides in to comment on the "high speed" setting, but I expect it'll be fine. In my design I omitted C4 due to space constaints but don't notice any flickering, even at very low speeds.
 

Calina

Enlightened
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
955
Location
Longueuil, Québec
I found these circuits on the web; might be helpful:

http://www.pilom.com/BicycleElectronics/DynamoCircuits.htm

I recently built the "Manual Switching between Voltage Doubler and Bridge Rectifier" circuit, using 3 1-watt Luxeons, driven from a simple 6v 3w bottle dynamo. The light comes on almost instantly on the "low speed" setting and puts out a decent amount of light. Don't have enough rides in to comment on the "high speed" setting, but I expect it'll be fine. In my design I omitted C4 due to space constaints but don't notice any flickering, even at very low speeds.

Martin (Pilom.com) is a member of CPF, his site is a great ressource.

You can also check these:
http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/tips.html
http://www.nscl.msu.edu/~daniel/sreg.htm
 

Martin

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Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
584
Location
Germany
Martin (Pilom.com) is a member of CPF, his site is a great ressource.
Thanks, Calina. I just noticed this thread.

The circuit that uses manual switching between voltage doubler and bridge rectifier is the most efficient one. With optimized capacitor values (depends on both the dynamo and the number of LEDs), two fairly nice power vs speed curves can be achieved. The combination of the two curves is hard to beat.
However, different riders prefer different curves. While I prefer to have the boost at lower speed resulting in a rather linear response, ktronik opts for a more peaky response that yields real high power at his average riding speed (requires Luxeon III).
By the way, the circuit gets around switching LEDs, they all remain connected all of the time which is rather good for their health.

All the automatic switching is making it nicer to use but the basic principle is the same, switching between doubler and bridge rectifier. The automatic circuits will not work well with hub dynamos, due to their low frequency. I started work on a circuit that's optimized for hubs, but it's only half-finished (power stage) while real life doesn't leave much time for the hobby, right now.
 

ktronik

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Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
779
Location
Australia
I found these circuits on the web; might be helpful:

http://www.pilom.com/BicycleElectronics/DynamoCircuits.htm

I recently built the "Manual Switching between Voltage Doubler and Bridge Rectifier" circuit, using 3 1-watt Luxeons, driven from a simple 6v 3w bottle dynamo. The light comes on almost instantly on the "low speed" setting and puts out a decent amount of light. Don't have enough rides in to comment on the "high speed" setting, but I expect it'll be fine. In my design I omitted C4 due to space constaints but don't notice any flickering, even at very low speeds.

Hey, this is the same circuit as we (martin & I ) have been working on...

if you remove C4, C1 will die much quicker...(for SON & shimano hub with HP LEDs)... I know it... it happened to me...err Dom...

this is the new circuit we are now working on, before the auto switcher...

we do this so not to use a 'bi-polar' cap...the 4 caps just = 1 bi-polar cap, no change to the circuit really...also after about 6 months, I thinks the cap don't like it, so this is the new circuit, martin has made...

DoublerSymetricalMinimized.jpg



best

ktronik
 
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