EagleTac P10A Comparison Review

[UnknownVT]

I emailed Eagletac and this is the reply from Nicole:
1) The P10A circuit can ran 14500, but it's not optimized. You will get 200-ish lumen at start and drops to about 130 lumen before flat-regulation kicks-in. When the input voltage is higher than the output voltage, the P10A circuit acts as a direct drive. You should have no issue using 14500 as long as it's protected with PCB at the bottom.

OK, you guys have talked me into it -

Comparisons using 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion 14500

vs. JETbeam JET-1 MK IBS both Max - on Li-Ion 14500

very close the JETbeam might be just a midgen brighter.

vs. NiteCore D10 (Q5) both Max -on Li-Ion 14500

again close - but this time the EagleTac is brighter.

How much brighter is the P10A on Li-Ion 14500 over NiMH - I don't have a second P10A to compare - but I compared the P10A on 14500 to the NiteCore D10 on NiMH to give an idea of the difference.

vs. NiteCore D10 (Q5) Max on NiMH

this time it's pretty obvious the P10A on Li-Ion 14500 is brighter than the NiteCore D10 on NiMH.

 

[edc3]

Vincent, how hard is it to remove the pocket clip? Can you get it off without any damage to the finish?

Also, I actually like the larger size for practical use. Thanks for a great review! :thumbsup:

I just got a P10A this morning and promptly removed the clip. It's not hard at all to take off and it didn't mar the finish.

Regarding the size, I tried it in my pocket with and without the clip and it's not great, but not too uncomfortable. But it's very comfortable in the hand.

 

[Monocrom]

I just got a P10A this morning and promptly removed the clip. It's not hard at all to take off and it didn't mar the finish.

Regarding the size, I tried it in my pocket with and without the clip and it's not great, but not too uncomfortable. But it's very comfortable in the hand.

Difference of opinion I guess, but I find that the P10A practically vanishes when clipped bezel-down onto a front pants pocket. Can't even feel it in my pocket. Haven't tried carrying it without the clip. Don't like tossing a light into a pants pocket if it's bigger than my Fenix L0D or ArcMania modded Mag Solitaire.

 

[edc3]

I have to revise my previous post. I normally always carry a knife clipped to the rear of my right front pocket. When I had the P10A clipped in my pocket, it was forward of my knife. If I put the P10A where it should be - where my knife usually is, it's great. I barely know it's there. So Monocrom is right. I still find holding a light with a clip uncomfortable, but that's personal preference and maybe worth getting used to in this case.

This is a very nice light - good size in the hand, bright, runs on AA, easy UI. I'm not sure it will replace my EX10, but I'll carry it for a few days and see how it goes.

 

[roymail]

I just got a P10A this morning and promptly removed the clip. It's not hard at all to take off and it didn't mar the finish.
Regarding the size, I tried it in my pocket with and without the clip and it's not great, but not too uncomfortable. But it's very comfortable in the hand.

Thanks, edc3... appreciate the answer to my question about the clip. I generally don't edc, so my concern has more to do with how this 1AA light feels in my hand. I appears to be of similar size to the E1B although I don't have one to compare.

I think this is my next light! Merry Christmas everyone!

 

[edc3]

You're welcome. I hope you'll be happy with your P10A. It's a sweet light.

Merry Christmas! :santa:

 

[2manybikes]

Did you try an outside test or any kind to test the throw? My P10a2 has great throw, I'm thinking the P10a might out throw my D-10 by quite a bit. If it does I may want one.

 

[selfbuilt]

However I suspect/speculate that EagleTac, Fenix and Olights may have some "family ties" -
which could mean that the P10A, P10A2 and P10C may (guess only) share the same head(s)? -

BUT according to the EagleTac P10A features - it uses the A400 LED Driver.

whereas -
EagleTac P10A2 (2x AA) uses the A800 LED Driver
EagleTac P10C (1x CR123) uses the L800 LED Driver

So apparently the heads are different.

I did this.....

Tried the P10A2 (2x AA) head on the P10A (1x AA) body -
this is safe since the P10A2 head handles 3V -
that combo seemed to work fine -
ie: the P10A2 head on 1x AA looks just like the regular P10A -
note: this is on a look-see basis only.

So with a bit of trepidation - I tried the P10A (1x AA) head on the P10A2 (2x AA) body -
not safe, since that's driving the 1x AA head with 2x AA
(I used recently charged Kodak Pre-Charged LSD NiMH) -
this also worked fine, in both Lo, then Hi modes -
but I only had this combination on for a very short time just to see if it worked.

Currently I dare NOT try a 3.7V Li-Ion 14500 with the P10A
- unless 4sevens or EagleTac says it's OK to try

Excellent comparative tests, as always Vincent. :thumbsup:

Although I don't have a P10A to test myself, your results make perfect sense to me. Your digging around and confirmation of different drivers for each model also fits with my experience to date.

I do have the P10A2, so I thought I would test it out with a dummy aluminum spacer to see how it handled 1xNiMH and 1x14500.

On 1xNiMH, the P10A2 head is clearly not optimized - unlike the tight regulation I saw on 2xNiMH, 1xNiMH looks a lot like direct drive. Overall output was among the lowest of the my Q5-based 1AA lights. Runtime was consistent with its output level, though. I'm sure the P10A has excellent regulation and output, in comparison.

On 1x14500, the P10A2 is at least as bright as 2xAA on Hi, but looses its low mode - and again appears to run on direct drive (at least initially). This is very reminiscent of the Fenix LxD/P2D driver, but I didn't do a full runtime to confirm.

Interesting that unlike Fenix, EagleTac seems to have chosen drivers that are optimized for each battery configuration. So while you loose the ability to play "lego", you do get the maximum possible regulation and output for each model. A pity about the lack of optimization for 14500, though.

Cheers! :wave:

 

[UnknownVT]

I do have the P10A2, so I thought I would test it out with a dummy aluminum spacer to see how it handled 1xNiMH and 1x14500.
On 1xNiMH, the P10A2 head is clearly not optimized - unlike the tight regulation I saw on 2xNiMH, 1xNiMH looks a lot like direct drive. Overall output was among the lowest of the my Q5-based 1AA lights. Runtime was consistent with its output level, though. I'm sure the P10A has excellent regulation and output, in comparison.

Selfbuilt - thanks for the input -
sorry to be late in responding.

I found what you said to be interesting -
I thought that EagleTac may have the Lego interchangablity -
but didn't realize that there may have been a difference.
Although I do have to question the bit about being on "direct drive" -
surely it can't be for 1x NiMH - the voltage is way below the Vf -
and it has to have been boosted to work with 1x AA NiMH?


So.....

I took the P10A2 head and put it on the P10A (1x AA) body -

EagleTac P10A2 head on 1x AA P10A body vs. NiteCore D10 (Q5) both Max and NiMH

this set kind of looks like the P10A vs. D10 in the opening post - other than the slight tint difference (which is proof that I am using a different LED/head).

This may lead me to say there is no difference between the P10A and P10A2 heads - like the Fenix interchangability....

BUT because what you wrote -
I also checked the Lo setting on the P10A2 head on 1xAA -

P10A2 head on 1xAA Lo vs. Fenix LD10 medium both NiMH

the P10A2 head on 1xAA Lo level is brighter than the Fenix LD10 medium.
Look back at the opening post and one sees that the Fenix LD10 on medium was close but brighter than the EagleTac P10A on Lo.....

So the situation is reversed - and one can see it easily in the comparison beamshots -
which means the regulation on Lo, at least, has to be different on the P10A2 from the P10A......

 

[selfbuilt]

this set kind of looks like the P10A vs. D10 in the opening post - other than the slight tint difference (which is proof that I am using a different LED/head).

Thanks for the extra tests Vincent ...

FYI, you might want to try the comparison after ~5 mins into the runs. I noticed that my P10A2 head when run on 1AA with the spacer was initially quite bright, but then dropped noticeably to a lower output level for the rest of the run. The P10A2 on 2xAA is exquisitely regulated at a constant max setting (the D10 is as well, so it would be interesting to see the difference in your hands).

P.S. Happy New Year!

 

[UnknownVT]

FYI, you might want to try the comparison after ~5 mins into the runs. I noticed that my P10A2 head when run on 1AA with the spacer was initially quite bright, but then dropped noticeably to a lower output level for the rest of the run.

Using the same NiMH batteries (Kodak Pre-Charged) so these already have been used for the comparison beamshots in Post #29

Start ~0 min on these used NiMH -

they look about the same....

After about 6 mins -

The comparison still looks about the same -
and very similar to the set at the start ~0 min.

 

[selfbuilt]

The comparison still looks about the same -
and very similar to the set at the start ~0 min.

Thanks Vincent, appreciate the extra effort.

Looking back over my runtime data, I see now that one of my D10-Q5 samples actually shows a similar drop-off in output of the first 5-10mins as my P10A2 on 1AA. Judging from your pics, it looks like output has dropped a bit on both of your lights as well, but proportionally so. Another one of my D10-Q5 was quite flat out of the gate, so there is definitely some variability on the Nitecores.

Of course, it's also possible my aluminum spacer on the P10A2 isn't behaving well with NiMH (although I've tested in my L2D and got identical results to my L1D runtimes on 1xNiMH).

Anyway, I think it's safe to say there are some differences in how the Eagletac circuits are optimized between the various heads, but it's probably not huge in the case of 1AA vs 2AA.

Cheers!

 

[UnknownVT]

Looking back over my runtime data, I see now that one of my D10-Q5 samples actually shows a similar drop-off in output of the first 5-10mins as my P10A2 on 1AA. Judging from your pics, it looks like output has dropped a bit on both of your lights as well, but proportionally so. Another one of my D10-Q5 was quite flat out of the gate, so there is definitely some variability on the Nitecores.

Arrrgh! then a side-by-side comparison would not show anything - as what we are judging is any relative differences - and if they both go dimmer - then there would be very little if any relative difference.

There are other ways to tango....

I looked at the exposure information - the initial set when the batteries were relatively freshly charged (about 2 hours previously) and used only to align/set up the lights probably <2mins?

Full exposure = 1/60 @ f/3.5
-2 Stops = 1/251 @ f/4

The "0 min"
Full exp = 1/60 @ f/3.2
-2 Stops = 1/200 @ f/4

~ 6 min
Full exp = 1/60 @ f/3.2
-2 Stops = 1/202 @ f/4

So between my initial set in the opening post BOTH lights together were approx 20% brighter according to the exposure in the Full exposure shot; and 25.5% to 24% brighter in the -2 Stops shots. BUT these are from different days and different ambient conditions - so might not be quite that valid?

In the second set there was no difference between the full exposure on the "0min" and the ~6min shots -

BUT the -2 Stops sets - for the ~6min there is a GAIN of 1% in brightness over the "0 min" -
this may be due to simple experiemental variation/margin of error.

Photo exposure is probably a very crude/approximate way of measuring light levels,
even if cameras use basically the same kind of light meter for its exposure system -
(that's why I have always maintained that my comparison beamshots are only there to compare the relative differences between the two light in the shot only - a sort of qualitative (yes, subjective) analysis and not any form of quantative analysis.)

Anyway isn't there always somewhat of a slight drop off in battery output in the first few minutes before it settles down to a relatively flat output, even for NiMH - but especially for 1x AA lights as the "regulation" requires a substantial boost? That's why I never use batteries fresh off the charger and allow for the setting up aligning time ~ 2-3 mins to avoid the initial high brightness.

This is facinating -
I can re-do the comparison shots if you like -
Please let me know the conditions -
NiMH batteries - which? Kodak Pre-Charged or eneloop?
State of charge - starting from say 1-2 hours after full charge?
What time intervals? 5 mins, 10 mins
(please remember my set up time probably uses at minimum ~1 min of runtime (if I rush) but ~2 is more likely.)
Other flashlight to compare to - Fenix LD10 or L1D - which are pretty well regulated?

 

[selfbuilt]

This is facinating -
I can re-do the comparison shots if you like -
Please let me know the conditions -

I'm glad you're having fun Vincent. :laughing:

Going over my data again, I see I mistook my LD10 for my 2nd D10.

Here's a graph showing the runtime of a number of the lights:

As you can see, my LD20 with 1AA and dummy aluminum spacer isn't that different from my LD10 on 1AA. But my P10A2 on 1AA and dummy seems rather low to me, compared to how strong a performer the P10A2 is on 2AA (i.e. my brightest 2AA light, and exquisitely regulated).

Not sure what you can do with exposures to chart the progress further. I'm guessing my dummy aluminum spacer is affecting the P10A2 results somewhat - the only way to know for sure would be for me to pick up a P10A, I suppose. I'll give it some thought

Cheers!

 

[UnknownVT]

Going over my data again, I see I mistook my LD10 for my 2nd D10.

OK if the NiteCore D10's (your 2 samples) have relatively flat outputs - without a drop in the first 5 minutes -
then since there was no discernable change in relative difference in brightness between the P10A2 head on 1xAA compared to my sample of the NiteCore D10 (Q5) from my first comparisons in Post #29 and my timed comparisons in post #31 - then the P10A2 head on 1xAA did not drop in brightness.

I just remembered why there may be a difference in exposure between the beamshots in Post #29 and Post #31 - that could make my first set of calculations in camera exposure levels INvalid.

The exposure set by the camera is very dependent on the positions of the light beams - although I try to set the beams as consistently as possible - because of different beam diameters - the hotspots are not always in the same place(s) - and since the first set in Post #29 were shot on a different day there could easily been a difference in beam positions -
this affects the actual exposure, and a 25% difference is well within a slight difference in positions on the target paper - as that is only a 1/3 stop difference which in photographic terms is about the lowest exposure increment.

That again is why I do not use the side-by-side comparison beamshots for any sort of quantitative analysis or compare between separate beamshots - but only as strictly a comparison between the two lights in the same shot - where a slight difference in exposure should not affect the relative difference comparison.

 

[kyhunter1]

Very nice review, I almost bought a P10A, got at SF E1B instead..

 

[selfbuilt]

That reminds me ... I decided to order a P10A after all to test myself.

I won't be doing an individual review of it, but I will add it to my planned revised 1AA round-up thread, following the pattern of my 1xCR123A/RCR and 2xAA round-up threads (i.e. runtimes, beamshots, brief overview)

I've just ordered it, so will likely be a couple of weeks before I get it. It will take a couple of weeks past that to collect all the data and post the 1AA round up thread (I've got a few other 1AA lights coming in I plan to add as well).

:wave:

 

[UnknownVT]

That reminds me ... I decided to order a P10A after all to test myself.
I've just ordered it, so will likely be a couple of weeks before I get it. It will take a couple of weeks past that to collect all the data and post the 1AA round up thread

Very cool! thank you for letting us know - I really look forward to seeing your results and comments.

Since you have the P10A2 (2AA) - be interesting to do a head swap and see what a P10A2 (2AA) head is like on a P10A (1AA) body - are the results the same as your previous using that alumium dummy battery in the P10A2? - and of course the P10A (1AA) head on the P10A2 (2AA) body :thumbsup:

 

[selfbuilt]

Since you have the P10A2 (2AA) - be interesting to do a head swap and see what a P10A2 (2AA) head is like on a P10A (1AA) body - are the results the same as your previous using that alumium dummy battery in the P10A2? - and of course the P10A (1AA) head on the P10A2 (2AA) body :thumbsup:

Just received my P10A.

I think it's safe to assume the P10A and P10A2 have different circuits optimized for their battery configurations. Both produce a rock-solid regulation when run at spec, with best efficiency.

But the P10A produces the exactly the same output on 2AA as it does on 1AA! I didn't want to do a full run like this, since I'm not sure that's safe for the head or batteries.

Interestingly, the P10A2 on 1AA has a non-regulated drop over the first 10 mins, but otherwise equivalent runtime to the P10A on 1AA (i.e. just a bit less output and regulation overall).

It seems like my aluminum dummy spacer in the 2AA host is adding some resistance, since it's curve has a similar pattern but less output compared to the P10A2 on the 1AA host.

 

[toby_pra]

very nice Beamshots!