EDC and the Quest to Unclutter

LEDBE
tnuckels

tnuckels

Enlightened
Joined
Oct 24, 2004
Messages
399
Location
Florence, Alabama
I have been trying to pair my life down for years now, after the requisite swell that seems to come with marriage, cars, mortgages, and children. I retired my Swiss Army Tinker for a Micra, then a Squirt, cleaned my wallet out so that now my butt-cheeks are now sorta' even, arranged my keychain for easy removal of items "as needed", and went with a smaller cell phone when the opportunity arose. Last on the list comes my EDC flashlight(s).

Over time, and after a fair number of flashlight purchases, I've decided that I'm tired of dragging around two lights every day, one for up-close/discrete & the other for distance/wow lighting. I'd like to carry a single light, but only if it is small enough, less than 3x1in ≈ 75x25mm (the size of ARC's old AA light is good), and flexible enough to throw across the yard or illuminate up close without blinding me. This size is about as big as I can stand on my keychain, which is where I prefer the light live so that it will be near impossible to leave home without it, but tethering works almost as well. Finally, I prefer the light be losable, as the destruction or loss of an expensive gadget is more fretting than I care to keep up with, though this last point is perhaps the most subjective of all. Advancements in battery capacity, output efficiency, circuitry reductions, and multiple light levels have conspired to make this a real possibility.

To this end, I just bought my first Fenix brand light. I have been intermittently checking the brand's development on CPF and have held off buying for some time as there always seemed to be an interesting new development, just over the horizon. Now that I have made my purchase, they can quit making better lights, thus sparing me yet another case of buyer's remorse:mecry:. I will be replacing the Peak Matterhorn 3 LED on my keychain that, while tough as nails, didn't provide enough flexibility to be my sole EDC light, necessitating I carry a second light, a tethered & pocketed Peak Caribbean.

As with each new manufacturer, I'm starting off at the relatively low end of the product line, seeing how well it works, and based on that experience deciding on additional purchases. I did this with ARC (AA, AAA-P, then, just as I went for a high end ARC, found that they had folded), PEAK (AAA single, AAA 3 LED, Caribbean), and now am trying it with Fenix. I realize that Fenix may not be as sweet a ride as ARC, or as pitilessly sturdy as PEAK, but am at least hoping they've sorted out most of the teething problems that I've previously read about. I purchased the Fenix L0D-CE for starts.

I had spent considerable time bouncing all over the Fenix-Store, trying to compare the various models:thinking:. A tip of the hat and final purchase goes to Lighthound for providing the groovy comparison matrix covering the Fenix light offerings, plus size & beam shot comparison pics to boot. A wag of the finger goes to Peak for never offering this sort of table, even on their "new and improved" website and despite multiple suggestions, wearing me thin tying to garner what they are offering these days.

One final thought: even with the crazy matrix of offerings Fenix has, I can't help but think they've missed an opportunity by not making a AA twisty (read: shorter) version of the L1D-CE, as this would seem to fill a real need for a common battery (no 123), longer runtime (vs. AAA), with respectable multi-level output and runtime. I'd gladly loose the 6th light level, and flashy modes too, for a reduction in length, which, if the P1 to P2 size comparison holds, might produce a light that meets my keychain EDC requirements. Throw a 2xAA body on and you're good to go for an activity where a bit more light and extra runtime are required, then return to the 1xAA body and it goes back to pocketable EDC use.

I'm also at a loss to understand why I keep reading that a AA light is a poor platform for producing a proper beam, citing that the tube is not big enough, when most AA & 123 lights seem to fall into the .75-1" diameter category. The energy equations are beyond me, but the Fenix's specs look promising. If the 1xAA L1D-CE can pump out 90lm for 1 ½ hrs and the 1x123 P1-CE puts out 90lm for 1 ¾ hrs, why bother with the more expensive & hard to find 123 cell? I tend to agree with PAULR http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=126557&page=22 that the AA platform deserves more time, attention, and development.

As was pointed out elsewhere, take one tiny step outside our boutique festooned bubble, without the internet for ordering cheap 123s, without dedicated chargers for specialty sized batteries, without ubiquitous delivery by FedEx and UPS, into a distant rural/wilderness setting, or heaven forbid, go to a foreign country that gets by on less STUFF, and you may quickly find that all this gadgetry we have decked ourselves out with becomes just so much useless baggage … costume jewelry that impresses no one. This is where a platform with sufficient energy shines, and availability of cells will make or break the day, allowing you to light up your night when others fail.
 
Can you link the 2 runtimes for the L1D-CE and P1-CE that show both at ~90lumens for over an hour? I'm just curious since I haven't really seen any runtimes for either.
 
Thanks for the link Curious_character. I remember looking through his graphs for the Novatac runtime. :)

tnuckels, unfortunately most companies will only provide the max output of the led used instead of the actual output from the specific light. In this case, the led is the same in the 2 lights (with the same max output), but the actual output from each light is not the same.

I did some digging and found this, http://flashlightreviews.com/reviews/fenix_l1dce-l2dce.htm for the L1D-CE.
and http://flashlightreviews.com/reviews/fenix_p1d.htm for the P1D-CE.

As you can see, the max output for both are not the same. The L1D-CE is about 1/2 the output of the P1D-CE.
 
I'm not sure if the difference is meaningful, but the light I cited was the P1-CE, not the P1D-CE. I just looked for two lights that offered equal output, and then checked runtimes.

If manufacturers only cited the MAX output for the given LED, then why would Fenix show various output levels for their different modes? It would stand to reason that their literature would read more like "a gazillion lumens, in a vacuum, on the planet Venus", with the appropriate disclaimer, instead of showing any variances.

I appreciate real world testing and miss the updates to Doug's site, meaning no disrespect to CHEVROFREAK as I realize Flashlight Reviews was using his data toward the end, but what's the point of presenting differing output level and runtimes for two of their lights, when for them a sale is a sale, no matter which light you choose?
 
ScottB said:
I'm running a protected 14500 in my L1D-CE/OP. Around 118 lumens for 57 minutes:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/printthread.php?t=155819

"Fenix L1D CE - max - AW 750mAh 14500: 1656 (est 118.29 lumens)"
Click to expand...

To be fair I haven't completely read the first post. Just a quick skimming. I'm a bit busy and stressed and CPF is a nice distraction. :)

I assumed the thread was referring to AA alkaline or nimh batteries, not lithium-ion.
 
I agree that the 14500 shouldn't count as an AA, however the proper AA cell to compare against a 123 is the L91 lithium. Its energy capacity is actually slightly higher than a 123 and its volume is almost exactly the same. They are around 2 bucks a cell even if you shop carefully but (unlike the 123) they're also not much more than that even if you buy them at local drugstores. In practice I think it's preferable to use NiMH despite the lower capacity except in special applications (very cold weather, long-term backup light, etc). The ability to use alkalines is an important fallback measure but should not be the main strategy.

Anyway I find that the L0D CE is more than bright enough for an EDC, at least in my urban environment. It runs great on an AAA NiMH cell, it's very compact, it has low and high modes. The UI is a pain in the neck and I wish they'd use a simpler one, but that's a matter of preference. In high mode it is way brighter than the Luxeons of a couple years ago, and at that time those Luxeons were considered plenty bright enough for most edc purposes. At this point I'd only bother edc'ing a bigger (1AA) light if I were travelling or spent more time in dark outdoor surroundings.
 
Well, I'm not an EE (that much is probably obvious:eek:), though I play one on TV (obscure reference to an old commercial) … just a mechanically inclined computer guy packin' an Ohm meter and a soldering iron. I tried to indicate as much by disclaiming a firm understanding of the energy equations.

As to which AA cells to use, the old line from so many war movies comes to mind, in the form of "Smoke 'em if you've got 'em boys". By this I mean if you've got over-voltage 14500s and the charger to match – so much the better for you, if you can locate the Li-ions – use them, if you can recharge your NiMH – use them laughing all the way to the bank, but if all you can get are Alkaline – then so be it. Each step represents a diminished level of performance for the light at hand, but at least you're not dead in the water.

My point was not to suggest a level of superiority for the AA platform ... indeed, AAs were only a long winded afterthought to my main idea about paring down … but mainly to wonder why AAs seem to garner so much less thought and attention compared to the "sexier" 123 cells, when they seem to do a respectable job and are so widely available.

Perhaps the posters were mistaken, but in response to the question a few days back about which light to take to Afghanistan http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=171106, there were several suggestions for 123 based lights, and several more indicating the need for a case of batteries to feed the light. Didn't the military standardize on 123 cell lights, or is this just another claim by manufacturers to bolster their position further? This illustrates my other AA point more clearly, that if you can't get the battery to fit your light, you're screwed.

Thanks for chiming in PAULR. Given your fondness for the L0D-CE, don't you think taking this light to the next level, a AA twisty, would work nicely. A bit bigger around for better grip, a little longer for bigger hands, with something like 2-3 times the stored energy (read this on CPF a while back, needs citation, don't quote me) of a AAA, with a head size that is more suited to modification for better throw or spill … that's what I'm suggesting.

I like my 123 lights, but I would never consider giving one as a gift because of the expense and hassle of finding the cells for most folks. I'm willing to put up with these hurdles, to an extent, but would not wish to burden others, have shied away from the more exotic variants for exactly this reason, and end up giving only AAA and AA lights as gifts. I can just imagine Christmas day going in the crapper real quick because Uncle Fred put the unprotected cell in the protected charger and burned his house down …
 
The fact is that an AA light is bigger and as such, less attractive to edc even if it's brighter, runs longer, etc. You have to size up your own edc requirements to decide if the AA's advantages make up for the size. For travel purposes I think yes, since I need a bright light sometimes and the battery capacity matters. For my usual edc situation, where I wake up in the morning, go to work and sit in front of a computer all day, then come home, really a Photon II is all the edc that I need, and I only carry other lights because I'm a flashaholic. I tend to work into the evening and shut the building lights off to conserve energy, so I use my edc light for maybe 1-2 minutes a day to find my way out of the office or to the bathroom. Once in a while I charge up the NiMH cell but runtime per charge really is not an issue. I enjoy reading about the wilderness survival scenarios but I just don't feel likely to be teleported from my computer terminal into the wilderness, so I don't edc lights for that contingency. When I go near the wilderness of course I bring more lights. But since I don't do that on most days, by definition those lights are not EDC.

I really dislike the concept of 14500 cells and would not use them or own them. The problem is that they are the same size as AA cells and can be accidentally put into devices (e.g. my digicam) that can't stand the high voltage. I'd consider that an acident waiting to happen. If you want a li ion powered flashlight I suggest getting an 18650 powered one. Those are the most cost effective and ubiquitous li ion cells and they have much more energy and power capacity than a 14500, and the batteries won't fit in an AA slot.
 
I like both AA and CR123 lights, but a couple of advantages to the CR123 come to mind whenever considering the two - The CR123 is shorter. Another advantage that often is overlooked is that the higher voltage of the CR123 generally leads to more efficient circuits, which means getting more out of the battery's energy. This is especially true with cheaper lights, where quite a few AA lights have very poor efficiency, maybe 40-60%, and even some of the better AA lights maybe around 75%. So unless the circuit efficiency is factored in, you can't just compare the energy of the batteries alone.
 
Right, as I've said in a few places, the interesting challenge in flashlight electronics these days is to design efficient, powerful boost converters that can run from one AA. Note that the low powered ones are already quite efficient. If the low powered designs were scaled to high power they'd still be efficient but they'd need bigger L and C components, so it's basically a miniaturization problem.

I'm not persuaded that a short thicker light is preferable to a longer but thinner one. The Fenix P1CE is one of the smallest 123 lights out there and it's shorter than an Arc AA, but the increased thickness makes it not especially feel like a smaller light.
 
Wow take it easy boys. My point was that the L1D-CE can take either AA or 14500 giving a choice about light levels, runtime etc.

It represents a certain flexibility, thats all. The L1D head is identical to the L2D head and so is designed to handle 3.7 volts. With a 14500 batt the L1D gives similar high output level as the L2D.

Personally I think the L1D is a bit too big for pocket carry. I'm eyeing an L0D for that (which can also accept 10440 batts as well as AAA :D).

I've never put the wrong cell in the wrong light. Probably because I take lion batts seriously and slow down when I'm changing batts or setting up a charger.
 
aceo07 said:
. . .tnuckels, unfortunately most companies will only provide the max output of the led used instead of the actual output from the specific light. . .
Click to expand...
No, that's not true. Most companies provide a lumen output which exists solely in the dreams of the marketing department, and which otherwise has no connection to reality at all. Anyone believing them is naive, and the marketeers' rightful prey.

This is equally true for the number of advertised "watts".

c_c
 
Knowing the AD literature is written by the marketing department, and knowing the marketing department is altering-their-perceptions-of-reality from the same tainted batch of cool-aid, and having made something of a career of making good on marketing reps "exaggerations", I have little to no real faith that the numbers will actually bear themselves out under any amount of scrutiny.

That said, the L0D-CE, whose specs most likely suffer from some amount of "wishful thinking", has done an admirable job for me so far. I think it's fairly safe to say that, despite the likelihood that the specs of the entire line of lights from Fenix might be "off a bit", they all would perform nicely as well. So, if a company says their light A performs to the same level as their light B, I give them the benefit of the doubt, knowing there is a predisposed "margin of error". Is this wrongheaded of me to apply this methodology to assessing claims from a single manufacturer?

From the responses, I take it that some of you also own an old ARC AA? If so, go dig it out of the drawer and give it a heft. About .7x3.04" (did I mention I also pack a set of calipers?), textured but not rough, anodized to a buttery smooth finish. Hell, this light feels great … if only it could do a whole lot more. I could stand a light this size, or even a bit bigger on my keychain or tethered in the corner of a front pocket. I might even consider carrying my PEAK Caribbean, in aluminum for lighter weight (.775 body, .84 head, 3.34 length), indefinitely, if only it had variable output.

I realize that the light I have been tap-dancing around, size & spec wise, is the .83x2.8" P1D-CE or the .83x3.17" P2D-CE (or the new Rebel equivalent). I have been eyeing them for a while, trying to imagine the tradeoffs in size vs. ease of use, not to mention the other body options for the P2 head. Though I wish it weren't so, perhaps because it is yet another tie to 123 cells, on paper at least these lights seem to fit the bill. I've also rediscovered the JetBeam line of lights. The AA C-LE looks quite interesting & I'm surprised nobody suggested it.

Any opinions on Jet vs. Fenix in quality, consistency, and durability?
 
The C-LE is a great value. Solid build, runs on AA, and super small size due to being a twisty design. Be prepared to clean and lube the light before first use.

I consider the JetBeam a 'throwaway' though...no dealer or manufacturer support if major issues arise.
 
That is no longer true. CPF member Jetbeam in the Manufacturer's forum has been quite good at following up on any issues.

I had a C-LE issue and sent mine back for warranty replacement. We'll see how that goes, but they have been reasonably responsive. Just wish they had a returns centre closer than China.

I'd say Rexlight is a little scarier, tho Kai seems pretty good at following up with issues.
 
Another light you might consider in the AA size is the Photon Proton. Not quite as small as the JetBeam or Arc AA, it offers surprising versatility. I bought it almost on a whim and have been trumpeting it since. It is a bit retro in its use of 5 mm LEDs, but it uses them well. Besides the dimming capabilities, the side switch and great pocket clip are standout features. It could be the one light to cover most of your needs.

Geoff
 
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