EDC Replacement - FourSevens Mini ML123 vs EagleTac D25c vs EagleTac D25LC2?

[DansGunBlog]

Hi guys!

Hoping for some advice on the right EDC light to transition to from my Current FourSevens Mini ML/123.

The Mini ML/123 has been my go-to EDC light for over a year. Use it daily, from taking my pups out late eve to various "hey, can't quite see that" around the house or anywhere. Super useful light, love the output for how small it is, and how well made it is.

But I'm looking to replace it with something that best meets the following criteria (in decreasing order of importance, tho all are important to me):
- One-hand operation (clicky)
- Twice or more the OTF lumens of the Mini ML/123 for high mode
- Moonlight mode - I often need lower light than the minimum on the ML/123
- Ability to turn on in High mode directly (without further clicks)
- Ability to turn on in Moonlight mode directly (without further clicks)
- Aaaand.... small enough for EDC (that's relative of course lol - ideally not much bigger than the ML/123, but realistically max 4.5" length and max .8" or so width. Wallet is a Maxpedition Micro Pocket organizer, and ideally it will neatly fit in there as the ML/123 does now.)


After a lot of looking, I've narrowed it down to 2 EagleTac models...

1.) EagleTac D25c
- Leaning most to this one.
- Seems to have Moonlight mode where others do not.
- And I THINK it can be started in high or moonlight mode at the first click. Is that correct?

** Does anyone have both the FourSevens Mini ML/123 and the EagleTac D25c? Curious how you'd compare them... **


2.) EagleTac D25LC2
This one pushes the carry-ability factor but may still work. And no Moonlight mode. But it does have lots more output in high mode for just $15 more and not "much" more size... sigh.


3.) Sort of, not really... but since I'm considering the D25LC2, the brand new DX30LC2 is barely any larger but more powerful. Ugh... size creep. May just be too big tho.


Thoughts? other options I should be looking at?

Thanks!!
Dan


*** UPDATE 10/17:

Now looking primarily at the Olight S1 Baton and Zebralight SC62w.

 

[Str8stroke]

D25C With out a second thought!! I would probably swing for Ti if you can budget it. The few extra $ to upgrade to Ti are well worth it in my book.

 

[Crazyeddiethefirst]

Going Gear bought all of the remaining 2014 stock of the Titanium D25C's and is selling them at a great price. I have multiple Mini's and four ti D25C's, but all of the D25C's have been modded in various ways by Vinh so it would not be a fair comparison. Have you considered the Olight S1? 500 lumen max, moonlight, just a suggestion...

 

[KeepingItLight]

Have you tried ZebraLight? From off, click once for high, or do a short press-and-hold for moonlight. The electronic, reverse-clicky side switch is easy to find and operate one-handed.

ZebraLight SC5w (1xAA, 500 lumens)
ZebraLight SC5Fd (1xAA, 375 lumens)
ZebraLight SC62w (1x18650, 930 lumens)
​

The SC62w is one of the smallest 1x18650 flashlights out there.

 

[BVH]

I don't know your budget but I've been hunting for my Mini123, 4Sevens EDC replacement for about 2-3 years and FINALLY found it. The S1vn "searchlight" It meets ALL your above requirements including a great output on high of 635 - 700 Lumens out the front. I ordered two - the Premium tint and the 6000K tint. Got the Premium and I'm just not a neutral tint guy. So once the 6000K arrives, the Premium will go up for sale. The moonlight is fantastic - very, very low and I love it. My eyes have to actually adjust for a few seconds in total darkness in order to see the light - it's that low. They're both here in front of me and they are within 99% identical in physical length and diameter.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?408032-S1vn-Nano-Searchlight

EDIT: Cheaper and almost as bright is the stock Olight S1 versus the Vn modified S1. Only $59.

 

[DansGunBlog]

Guys, thanks for the great suggestions... checking each one out individually. looks like some really nice additional options.

Dan

 

[DansGunBlog]

... Have you considered the Olight S1? 500 lumen max, moonlight, just a suggestion...

Huh, had not looked at Olight at all actually. Looking at the S1... and WOW!

I'll be honest, the S1 just bumped the D25C out of my shopping cart.

The only concern I have off hand is with the magnetic base. not sure how that's gonna play with other meta objects, i.e. Spyderco, extra mag, etc. That's a super cool feature for an EDC light tho.


Regarding the 500 lumens number... something interesting I noticed, Olight seems to specify their Lumens per ANSI FL1 standard. EagleTac does provide that number as well, but it's of course lower than stated one in the product description.

So it seems we're comparing the Olight S1 500 ANSI FL-1 Lumens with the 317 ANSI FL-1 lumens (not 453) of the D25C...


lol unfortunately i've been going through the Olight line-up this afternoon... and dammit, that Mini Intimidator is looking VERY cool. looks like version 2.0 is coming out this month...

Thanks!
Dan

 

[jmwking]

Have you tried Zebralight? From off, click once for high, or do a short press-and-hold for moonlight. The electronic, reverse-clicky side switch is easy to find and operate one-handed.

Zebralight SC5w (1xAA, 500 lumens)
Zebralight SC5Fd (1xAA, 375 lumens)
Zebralight SC62w (1x18650, 930 lumens)
​

The SC62w is one of the smallest 1x18650 flashlights out there.

Love me my Zebras!

-jk

 

[DansGunBlog]

Have you tried Zebralight? From off, click once for high, or do a short press-and-hold for moonlight. The electronic, reverse-clicky side switch is easy to find and operate one-handed.

Zebralight SC5w (1xAA, 500 lumens)
Zebralight SC5Fd (1xAA, 375 lumens)
Zebralight SC62w (1x18650, 930 lumens)
​

The SC62w is one of the smallest 1x18650 flashlights out there.

@KeepingItLight I haven't tried them yet, but looking like I will very soon lol.


UPDATE:

Spent quite some time looking at the S1 and other Olight products... Definitely getting an S1 Baton, brand new tech and very pocketable in any pocket, with great output.

Their one other product that REALLY stood out to me is their new Olight PL-1 Valkyrie Pistol Light - nice to see some fresh blood and new tech in the pistol light market which has been largely Surefire and Streamlight for so long.


Then, I started looking seriously at the Zebralights...

Sure enough, stats on the SC62w are very impressive... what a small/slim size for a 18650! That definitely fits well within my pocketability size/EDC comfort size and with an 18650 for output/beam staminal lol/rechargeability.

Also cool they're based here in the Dallas area (which is a big area, I'm actually in far North Dallas, but still local lol).

So the S62w is currently my top contender now for main EDC light to replace the FourSevens.


But will also get the S1 Baton... because I want one.


Also looking at the Nitecore MH20. Obviously larger, imho too big for comfortable pocket carry (and would seriously bulge the Maxpedition Micro Pocket Organizer "wallet"). ut with a built-in charging port, seems like a great lite for your regular daily grab bag/backpack/etc. I switched from a backpack to a 5.11 MOAB 6 a while back, love it. Fits the ipad and random EDC stuff quite nicely and very easy to grab/transport or throw over your shoulder.


In the meantime, I'm enjoying the search.

Thanks!
Dan

 

[KeepingItLight]

Zebralight seems to have made all the right design choices for the compact 1x18650 and 1xAA niche it targets.

• A variety of tint options, including neutral and high-CRI
• Efficient buck/boost drivers that produce flat runtimes
• Potted electronics, good fit-and-finish
• Popular UI that features 11 constant output levels
• Direct access to lo, med, hi, and strobe from off
• Great moonlight modes
• Low-voltage cutoff that makes over-discharge impossible

Zebralights appear to be designed by engineers for engineers. Yet, if you give one to your non-flashaholic grandmother, all she has to do is click to turn it on (in high mode), use it, and then click again to turn it off.

The Olight S1 has certainly gotten a lot of attention. I wish it were offered in a neutral tint. One concern I have about the S1 has to do with CR123A batteries. They are typically rated for a maximum continuous discharge current of 1.5 amps. I do not know the fact, but it is likely that the S1 pulls more than than in high mode. In practice, that may be only a small problem, because high mode has a forced step-down after about 1.5 minutes or so.

Learning about this is can be confusing. The Olight specifications refer to turbo and high modes, but the S1 does not have a turbo mode. Most descriptions I have read refer only to moonlight, low, medium, and high. The Olight specifications also mention both 1 and 1.5 minutes timings.

Manufacturer specifications:

• Thermal management safety program with overheat protection by dropping high output by 50% within 1 minute of constant on. Turbo mode has a limit of 1.5 minutes.

The Olight S1 review by CPF member thburns has a runtime chart that shows the step-down occurring over about two minutes. It happens in two stages.

This business of drawing too much current from CR123A cells is very common these days. CPF member recDNA measured the current in his 1xCR123A Zebralight SC32w, and found it to be well in excess of 1.5A in H1 mode. That's the highest mode. He is uncomfortable with that, so he no longer uses that mode. The other modes work great.

Recently I measured amps in SC32w and found H1 at 2.2-2.4 amps with primary. I contacted the manufacturer and was told that is correct and they believe it to be safe.

 

[DansGunBlog]

Thanks for the great tips above - ended up getting an Olight S1 and LOVE it. The side clicky is so much easier to manipulate than my current Mini ML/123 - and they're the same size.

Magnetic tailcap is a useful feature, yet doesn't stick to other items in the pocket. LOL it helps that Glock mags are largely polymer.

@KeepingItLight interesting points on the high battery draw for CR123a batteries. Have you seen the S2 Olight just released recently? I'm looking at getting one - basically a slightly larger but more powerful 18650-powered S1.

Any thoughts on battery draw concern and whether it applies to the S2, considering it's powered by 1x 18650 (or 2x CR123a)?

Thanks!
Dan

 

[KeepingItLight]

@KeepingItLight interesting points on the high battery draw for CR123a batteries. Have you seen the S2 Olight just released recently? I'm looking at getting one - basically a slightly larger but more powerful 18650-powered S1.

Any thoughts on battery draw concern and whether it applies to the S2, considering it's powered by 1x 18650 (or 2x CR123a)?

Nice pic!

CPF member Prepped and I exchanged PMs about the current draw of the Olight S1. He has given me permission to post his measurement. Below that you will find my comments.

I finally got around to measuring the amperage on highest output, and it's pulling around 1.8 amps.

Thanks.

There is an analogy here with cars. A high-performance engine won't explode the first time you go a little past the redline. That doesn't mean you like to do that, though. The S1 steps down after 3 minutes. So 1.8A takes you a little above the rated maximum, but only for a short while. Probably, that is not going to hurt the battery.

I don't know, but there may be some voltage sag as well. Does the runtime chart for turbo look like a direct-drive pattern?

One datasheet for CR123A that I have defines maximum pulse discharge to be that current which causes battery voltage to sag to 1.0 volt in 15 seconds. Testing then shows that maximum pulse currents for CR123A are around 3-3.5 amps. Given that, will there be much sag at 1.8A?

Suppose there is voltage sag in turbo, and suppose also that the driver is able to keep the S1 in regulation. Would that mean that the driver would have to draw more current to compensate for the sagging voltage. I guess so.

I have no information about the Olight S2.

Running 2xCR123A with an efficient emitter like the Cree XM-L2, you can usually stay within the 1.5 amp limit up to about 700 lumens. Beyond that, you are probably exceeding 1.5 amps. As the highest mode of the S2 outputs 950 lumens, it would not surprise me to learn it drew more than 1.5 amps when fueled by 2xCR123A.

CR123A is a great battery option if you know its limitations. Its small size, long storage life, and ability to run in cold and hot weather alike mean that it will continue to have a place in the flashlight world. What it cannot do, however, is provide high amperage.

 

[DansGunBlog]

Nice pic!

Thanks! was one of the few I took for the Olight S1 Review (first impressions and review here). I find myself using this light a lot, it was a good acquisition indeed.

Nice pic!

CPF member Prepped and I exchanged PMs about the current draw of the Olight S1. He has given me permission to post his measurement. Below that you will find my comments.



I have no information about the Olight S2.

Running 2xCR123A with an efficient emitter like the Cree XM-L2, you can usually stay within the 1.5 amp limit up to about 700 lumens. Beyond that, you are probably exceeding 1.5 amps. As the highest mode of the S2 outputs 950 lumens, it would not surprise me to learn it drew more than 1.5 amps when fueled by 2xCR123A.

CR123A is a great battery option if you know its limitations. Its small size, long storage life, and ability to run in cold and hot weather alike mean that it will continue to have a place in the flashlight world. What it cannot do, however, is provide high amperage.

Thanks for all that, makes sense.

Would there be any concern with 18650's in the S2?

Not sure if the S2 is gonna be "too big" in comparison - part of the value of the S1 is the utterly tiny size and amount of light for that size. but i'm seriously considering one.

Thanks!
Dan