Fear the cr123?

[jacknife]

With all that I am reading about the Cr123 and its ability to explode does it make sense to leave it ,on your nightstand? even if it is holding 4 panasonic, Usa - cr123-s, or a rechargable 18650?? I always use high end batteries and normally walk my dog at night with a 2 cell -123 --100 lum ens around my neck ?

 

[Chrontius]

Explosions are really few and far between.

I'll admit, I keep the flaky unprotected cells in the fireplace for a few days after, and while charging.

 

[jacknife]

Are all of the High end not rechargeable cr123 protected in some way?

 

[Monocrom]

Just use quality, Made in America, CR123 cells. Avoid the cheap junk from overseas. And you'll be fine.

As for 18650 cells, stick with quality. AW, Pila, or Wolf-Eyes brand. Stick with quality chargers as well. Best bet is the Pila IBC model.

Can't give you a 100% guarantee of safety. No such thing as that in real life at all. But your chances of an explosion will be extremely reduced by going with quality. To the point of basically being a non-issue.

 

[computernut]

There are risks but if you use good quality cells, don't abuse them (ie. heavy draws, don't mix cells), and use high quality chargers you really reduce the risks. Using single cell lights are also safer. People use things everyday that are inherently dangerous and manage to survive, ie. gas stove, electric kettle, sharp knives, etc.

 

[PeaceOfMind]

Primary Lithium cells such as CR123 are very safe.

Lithium-Ion rechargeables (such as RCR123 or 18650) are more worrisome.
Regardless, if you buy quality cells, and are sure to buy protected cells when it comes to Lithium-Ion rechargeables, you will be fine.

 

[fyrstormer]

Consider that rechargeable lithium batteries are in almost every laptop made in the past ten years. How many explosions have been reported? A couple dozen? That's actually a better safety record than lead-acid batteries have.

 

[Dodge]

There are a billion mobile phones on this planet. People who don't know better wander around with an explosive device in their pocket, and often hold them against their heads. Hardly any of them get killed.

 

[DM51]

Welcome to CPF, jacknife

It's sensible to have a healthy respect for the energy contained in these small cells, but it's not necessary to be frightened of them. They'll be fine as long as you treat them properly and observe a few simple rules.

We have a separate Batteries sub-forum, where you can read more about the different cell types and how to treat them. I'll move your thread there.

 

[KiwiMark]

Primary Lithium cells such as CR123 are very safe.

Lithium-Ion rechargeables (such as RCR123 or 18650) are more worrisome.
Regardless, if you buy quality cells, and are sure to buy protected cells when it comes to Lithium-Ion rechargeables, you will be fine.

Isn't it the other way around? I thought that the majority of explosions were the primary lithium cells rather than the Li-ion rechargeables.

 

[PeaceOfMind]

Isn't it the other way around? I thought that the majority of explosions were the primary lithium cells rather than the Li-ion rechargeables.

hm... no I don't think it is the other way around. I can't ever recall hearing of a primary explosion. Li-Ion on the other hand should be purchased with a built-in protection circuit for a reason. I've read about several Li-Ion explosions here on CPF, not to mention the occasional incident involving laptop battery fires, which are always Li-Ion of course. Lithium primary cells can be run into the ground until they're dead. Doing the same with a Li-Ion will could cause it to explode if it is not protected. Lithium primary can also withstand extremes of temperature which would cause Li-Ion to explode or become damaged.

Then again I could be wrong, but the above is what I've gathered.

 

[Viking]

This thread has realy confused me.
I have always thought it was the rechargeble batteries there was "dangerous" , not the primary CR123 batteries.
Is it realy the other way around.

 

[Jaq]

I have had several cheap cr123 exploded in SF lights. Granted, at the time I did not know any better and I would leave the flashlight in my tool bag for weeks and find a black gutted light.

Jaq

 

[kramer5150]

the huge majority of CPF fire/vent/explosions involve 3 things....
-High C applications
-User inter-mixing fresh with used cells
-User discharging cells excessively to the point of polarity reversal
-Cheap asian origin cells (in the case of primaries)

Avoid the last 3 conditions and I am very confident you will be OK with Lithium primaries... both on the nightstand and walking your dog.

 

[kramer5150]

This thread has realy confused me.
I have always thought it was the rechargeble batteries there was "dangerous" , not the primary CR123 batteries.
Is it realy the other way around.

Primaries and recharge able cells are just as dangerous when used dangerously. Rechargables add another layer of risk because they are charged. So its paramount that a quality CC/CV charger is used that does not exceed ~4.2V

 

[Monocrom]

This thread has realy confused me.
I have always thought it was the rechargeble batteries there was "dangerous" , not the primary CR123 batteries.
Is it realy the other way around?

When it comes to a variety of items, you can skimp on quality; and often it'll be okay. Just take a look at some of the Uber cheap flashlights that some CPFers buy. Bright & cheap is easy to pull off. If a light lacks quality, most folks will just be badly inconvenienced, at worst.

You can't cheap out with CR123 cells. If you do, then their potential to explode or vent with flame goes up significantly. Want to save money on CR123 cell? Buy online, buy in bulk, buy Made in America cells. Not about patriotism. It's about the fact that made in America CR123 cells are built with actually Q.C. in mind. Don't buy rock bottom priced cells from China that carry names you've never heard before.

Don't mix old & new CR123 cells in the same light. Consider investing in a battery tester. (I don't even mix & match cells from different brands.)

There's a reason why you can't just walk into a pharmacy and buy 18650 rechargeables, and similar cells. But you will find CR123 cells on the racks.

 

[KiwiMark]

I can't ever recall hearing of a primary explosion.

This thread has realy confused me.
I have always thought it was the rechargeble batteries there was "dangerous" , not the primary CR123 batteries.
Is it realy the other way around.

Primary Lithium cells contain Lithium - a dangerously reactive metal. They have the potential to explode and many cases have been mentioned in these forums.

Rechargeable Li-ion cells are generally safer because they don't contain metal Lithium. However it is possible for Lithium to deposit on the electrode (coming from the Lithium ions) and for a quantity of the dangerous element to accumulate and then a breach CAN lead to an explosion. Some Li-ion cells are known to present less risk - LiMn and LiFePO4 cells are considered to be a 'safe' chemistry, usually the 'vent with flame' situation happens with LiCo cells. Generally there are problems with the construction of the cells that have 'vented', Sony had to recall a huge number of laptop batteries because they didn't make them safe enough. Even in the case of poor design only a small percentage failed catastrophically.

What others have said about primaries is true, the cheaper cells that are made more shoddily are the greater risk. This is also true of the Li-ion cells - AW cells are made with a "Safety vent with thermal cut off protection." that will kill the cell and halt the reaction, many other brands do not have this feature.

It is important to remember:
The cases of Li-ion failure are few and far between. Consider how many cell phones and laptops and iPods and digital cameras and other electronic devices are out in the world running on Li-ion cells, clearly the risk isn't much at all. Use quality cells and take care when charging and you aren't likely to have problems.

 

[jacknife]

Please explain Does AW make a Primary- Primary means a non rechargable cr123 Yes?? And what is a Limn and a Lifepo4 and where would you buy these ??? and what brand AW )) again I am learning alot here Thanks keep it coming please. ----I have an Ultrafire charger for 3.7 lithium batteries is this a safe one?? Or which one specifically is better for 18650 recargables I have???

 

[kramer5150]

AW does not make a primary CR123 cell.
"Primary" implies non-rechargeable.
The quality of your ultrafire charger depends on how it behaves while charging. Most importantly does it charge over ~4.2V?... and Does it terminate the charge completely at ~4.2V? You will need a DMM to check for this.

I have 2 older WF-139 units purchased from DX about 18 months apart. They are the green "blinky" ones. They terminate charge at 4.18V, but for safety reasons I play it safe and never leave the cells in the charger for long. They work fine with my Sanyo, panasonic and Sony unprotected 18650 cells.

 

[Monocrom]

... I have an Ultrafire charger for 3.7 lithium batteries is this a safe one?? Or which one specifically is better for 18650 recargables I have???

Ultrafire chargers require constant monitoring. They tend to trickle charge batteries even after the charge should terminate. I have an Ultrafire charger. Mine has never caused any problems, but then again I keep a closer eye on it than a Corrections Officer would on a prisoner who's on suicide watch. As soon as the charging light turns green, I yank the cells off of it. They are pretty hot when I do, so I let them cool down for at least two hours before using them.

As for which charger is better for 18650 cells . . . Check out my very first post in this topic.