Fenix P3D-RB100 Rebel Comparison Review

UnknownVT

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Courtesy of 4sevens (http://Fenix-Store.com) on loan for this review Fenix Digital P3D RB100 Black Premium 100

The P3D-RB100 Rebel edition is currently the king of the heap for Fenix handheld LED flashlights - boasting a rated 200 lumens on turbo mode - running on 2x CR123A.

Size -
P3Drb100Sz.jpg

basically the same size as the fabulous P3D-CE -
this Rebel 100 edition is distinguished by the marking on the head and the different ribbing.
Shown also is the little L0D-RB80 - upstart challenger - using 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable 10440.

Heads -
P3Drb100Hd.jpg

The new P3D Rebel 100 has a reticulated/orange-peel reflector and the LED is noticably smaller than the Cree XR-E. The CE (Cree Edition) is an older one with the smooth reflector - it now also comes with a textured reflector. The L0D-RB80 head shows how small the Rebel LED is. Once again that is not a black surround for the RB100 - it is mirror polished finish - the photo just came out black there.

So is the new P3D-RB100 the brightest light of this group?

vs. Fenix P3Dce both using primary CR123A and on Turbo (max)
P3Drb100_P3Dce.jpg
P3Drb100_P3Dce2U.jpg

according to the specs the RB100 should be 25% brighter than the CE - but these side-by-side comparison beamshots seem to show it closer. The RB100 has a wider beam so covers more area - the -2 Stops underexposed shot seems to favor very slightly the narrower CE. A close call - maybe the RB100 has it because it covers more area?

Might seem silly, but how does the tiny single Fenix L0D-RB80 fair against the big gun? ...well, OK using a 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion 10440......

vs. Fenix L0D-RB80 on 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable 10440 on High -
P3Drb100_L0Drb80Li.jpg
P3Drb100_L0Drb80Li2U.jpg

The L0D-RB80 on 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable 10440 does pretty well - but the more concentrated beam of the P3D-RB100 does show its advantage - and the P3D-RB100 hot spot is - well, hotter........

How about a more practical comparison?

Standardized exposure stairs beamshot
(comparable to my other stairs beamshots) -
P3D-RB100 ..................................................... Fenix L0D-RB80 on 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable 10440
StairP3Drb100.jpg
StairFenixL0Drb80Li.jpg

these shots seem to reflect the comments made in the direct side-by-side beamshots on white paper above. The P3D-RB100 has much more concentrated hotspot and beam - whereas the L0D-RB80 spreads its light out more - to give a spectaular stairs result - outdoors or with less reflective surfaces the P3D-RB100 would definitely show its advanatges. But, hey, the tiny little upstart Fenix L0D-RB80 on 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable 10440 is definitely a little pocket rocket (just don't use it for long on high, as it gets very warm very quickly).
 

mchlwise

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Excellent review, as always.

I'd like to see a runtime chart on the L0DR80. Maybe what... 5 minutes to 50% on the 10440. :green: :crackup:

My understanding is that's pretty brutal on the cells also, and if you're not careful they might go :poof:
 

WadeF

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Not sure how you can judge them by the beamshots when the hot spots are over exposed in the -2 under exposed shots. Maybe try -4 under exposed, or a lower exposure.
 

UnknownVT

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Not sure how you can judge them by the beamshots when the hot spots are over exposed in the -2 under exposed shots. Maybe try -4 under exposed, or a lower exposure.

Thank you - this is a good point -
but my beamshots are NOT there for quantitative measurements -
the correct way to measure brightness is to by integrating sphere -
and even that is open to debate.

I know that someone has tried to take my comparison beamshots and calculated the area and brightness levels - but although it was a sterling effort - that is so open to debate - otherwise - taking a photo would be the easy way to measure brightness - why even use an integrating sphere?

So my side-by-side comparison beamshots are for visual comparison -
between the full/optimized and the -2 stop underexposed shots they give a pretty good/reasonable idea of how the lights look in real life - shone on white walls.

Like I said in the review - according to the specs there is supposed to be 25% increase in brightness of the RB100 version over the CE - but in real-life it was hard to see this - and those beamshots kind of reflect that situation - that is all I hoped to achieve - a visual comparison - the fact that both the hotspots are still overexposed in the -2 stop underexposed shot - and seems somewhat "equally" overexposed (with maybe the RB100 slightly brighter?) only goes to show that it is hard to see any difference visually....... (see also the -2 Stops beamshot with the L0D-RB80 where the side-spills are comparable but a difference can be seen in the hotspots)
 

UnknownVT

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according to the specs there is supposed to be 25% increase in brightness of the RB100 version over the CE - but in real-life it was hard to see this

Just a thought on this -

the Premium Rebel RB100 uses an obviously textured orange-peel reflector - which diffuses and scatters the light more from the main beam output (ie: in the hotspot and the side-spill) - with possibly some losses?
- so the light is not going to be as intense as a smooth (non-textured) reflector.

The CR (Cree Edition - an older version) has a smooth reflector.
 

UnknownVT

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Does the P3D work with 1x 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion?

Since the P3D head will fit on the P2D and L1D bodies - this is what I tried -

P3Drb100 head on P2D body (ie: 1x CR123) -
primary CR123 - light in all modes - but not surprisingly low battery flickering at all levels.
3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion RCR123 - all levels working - no flickering even on Turbo/Max - ie: works fine -
I have 3x RCR123's and they all worked fine.
Current draw Turbo = 0.96A; Lo = 0.03A; Med = 0.13A; Hi = 0.35A.
So GUESStimate of runtimes on 750mAh RCR123 -
Turbo 30 min; Lo 15 hours(?); med = 4 hours; Hi = 1.4 hours.

P3Drb100 head on L1D body (ie: 1x AA) -
Alkaline or NiMH - not surprisingly - no light in any mode.
3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion 14500 - light at all levels - but low battery flickering on Turbo/Max -
I have 2x 14500 UltraFire both behaved this way.
Current draw Turbo/Max (with low batt flicker) 0.61A; Lo = 0.03A; Med = 0.14A; Hi = 0.36A.
So my GUESStimate of runtime on these 900mAh 14500
Turbo = ~1 hour (but flickers); Lo = ~20 hours(?); Med = 4 hours; Hi = 1.7 hours.
EDIT to ADD - because I read of others using the low battery flickering on Turbo as an indication to stop using the light and recharge the battery - I recharged both my 14500 - and the light no longer gave the low battery flicker on Turbo -
the measurements on Turbo -
Current draw = 0.83A (4.13V o-c) - new GUESStimate runtime Turbo = 0.7 hour.

I also read that the P3D can run on 2x 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion RCR123s -

So I also tried that -
2x 3.7V Rechargeable Li-Ion RCR123 on P3D rb100 -
works fine at all levels - gets warm but not hot in my limited and short run -
Current draws - Turbo/Max = 0.42A; Lo = 0.01A (16.8mA on 200mA scale); med = 0.06A (67 mA on 200mA scale); Hi = 0.17A
GUESStimate runtimes on these 2x 800mA RCR123 - turbo = ~1.25 hr; Lo = ~31 hrs; Med = ~8 hrs; Hi = ~3 hrs.

Another EDIT to ADD -
just read another post asking about 2x 14500 using a L2D body - so I tried that as well - the P3D-RB100 head on the L2D body with 2x 14500 worked in all modes -
Current draw readings -
Turbo/max = 0.41A; Lo = 0.01A (17.1mA on 200mA scale); Med = 0.05A (63.1mA on 200mA scale); Hi = 0.16A (185mA on 200mA scale)
GUESStimate runtimes on 2x 900mAh 14500 turbo = ~1.4 hours; Lo = ~35hours; Med = ~9.4 hours; Hi = ~3.2 hours.

Compare with Primary CR123 -
Current draw - turbo = 0.62A; Lo = 0.01A (17.3 mA on 200mA scale); Med = 0.09mA (99mA on 200mA scale); Hi = 0.24A
GUESStimate runtimes - Turbo = ~1.6hrs; Lo = ~57 hrs; Med = ~ 15 hrs; Hi = ~ 4hrs.

P3D-RB100 specs -
General Mode: 11 lumens (65hrs) -> 50 lumens (13hrs) -> 112 lumens (4.8hrs) -> SOS
Turbo Mode: 200 lumens (1.8hrs) -> Strobe
 
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UnknownVT

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I did these comparisons trying to find out if running a P3D on 2x 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion batteries would actually be brighter than the normal 2x primary CR123s - since I do not have 2 P3Ds on hand - I used the recently reviewed (and Hot) Fenix TK10 as a comparison control light

P3Drb100 on 2x 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion RCR123 Turbo vs. Fenix TK10 on primary CR123 High/Max - note: the TK10 is on the left.
TK10_P3D2RCR123.jpg
TK10_P3D2RCR123U2.jpg

P3Drb100 on 2x primary CR123 vs. Fenix TK10 on primary CR123 High/Max - note: the TK10 is on the left.
TK10_P3Drb100.jpg
TK10_P3Drb100U2.jpg

I think these two pairs of comparison photos look about the same - the TK10 is brighter in both sets and I think the P3Drb100 looks about the same in both.

Just to be sure I put the P3Drb100 head on a L2D body and tried 2x 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion 14500 -

P3Drb100 head on L2D body using 2x 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion 14500 Turbo vs. vs. Fenix TK10 on primary CR123 High/Max - note: the TK10 is on the left.
TK10_P3D2x14500.jpg
TK10_P3D2x14500U2.jpg

another set that more or less looks the same as the two sets above - well not that surprising, since it is really just another 2x 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion (only the capacities were different) - but I had to do it check.

So the P3Drb100 with 2x 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion batteries is about the same as on 2x primary CR123 - so compared to the TK10 the beamshots are about the same as the one on the 2x primary CR123s
 

ingokl

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wow!the L2D tailcap can take the current of 2x li-ion?
Amazing.
I wonder how long the tiny spring inside the module will last.


Well...with the li-io the current is much smaller than with the original L2D setup (only 0.41A compared to about 1.1 Amp). So the electric power dissipated in the spring is much lower (P=R*i²). The higher the voltage and lower the current (at same power output) the lower the losses in the resistor, in this case the spring.
 

learnyee

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Will these configuration works with the P3D CD Q5? or the P2D CE Q5?
 
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nanotech17

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Well...with the li-io the current is much smaller than with the original L2D setup (only 0.41A compared to about 1.1 Amp). So the electric power dissipated in the spring is much lower (P=R*i²). The higher the voltage and lower the current (at same power output) the lower the losses in the resistor, in this case the spring.

Thank You man :thumbsup:
 

UnknownVT

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Will these configuration works with the P3D CD Q5? or the P2D CE Q5?

The P3D-Q5 should work the same way - as it has basically the same electronic circuitry.

BUT the P2D's will NOT for 2x Li-Ion, and limited for 1x Li-Ion -
do NOT try the 2x Li-Ion configurations -
that probably will either burn out the LED or circuit.

Explanation -

P3D series uses 2x CR123 - which is nominally 3+3V = 6V - this is way above the Vf of the LED - this means the circuit is there to drop the voltage level down to the Vf. So having 2x Li-Ion batteries which would be about 7.4V nominally - appears to be in the range of the regulating circuit - that can cope and reduce the voltage down to the Vf.

Whereas the P2D only uses a single CR123 which is nominally 3V - this is BELOW the Vf of most LEDs - so the circuit used in the P2D series has to BOOST the voltage - kind of the opposite to the P3D circuit.

Now the P2D can be run on a SINGLE 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion battery - such as 1x RCR123 in the P2D, or 1x 14500 on a L1D body - the nominal 3.7V of the Li-Ion often is higher than the Vf of the LED - so the circuit is by-passed - in effect the LED is in direct drive from the battery on Turbo - all the other lower levels are still there - BUT they show basically the same high brightness.
So on 2x Li-Ion (or 7.4V) the circuit on the P2D will be by-passed and all of the 7.4V will be directly driving the LED - which may well burn it out.

(Please edit your post to get rid of most of the quote as it is merely repeating all of my post)
 
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PlayboyJoeShmoe

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One thing puzzles me Vincent...

The spot of TK10 looks VERY sharp edged in your pictures.

I do not see that in my example, it having a smooth edged spot similar to the RB100.

What gives?
 

UnknownVT

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The spot of TK10 looks VERY sharp edged in your pictures.
I do not see that in my example, it having a smooth edged spot similar to the RB100.
What gives?

A lot more beamshots of the TK10 in

Fenix TK10 Comparison Review

Photos have limited dynamic range - especially when compared to our eyes which can accomodate a lot.

So on the full exposure shots the hotspot is basically grossly over exposed - so does not show any details in and immediately around the hotspot. Now look at the -2 stops underexposed shots - one can see a bit better details around the edge of the hotspots.

The -2 stops underexposed shot is where that Cree dark-halo betrays itself - and I think the reason why the full exposure shot seems to give the TK10 hotspot such a sharp defined outline/cutoff.
 

learnyee

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The P3D-Q5 should work the same way - as it has basically the same electronic circuitry.

BUT the P2D's will NOT for 2x Li-Ion, and limited for 1x Li-Ion -
do NOT try the 2x Li-Ion configurations -
that probably will either burn out the LED or circuit.


Hi UnknownVT, thanks for the explanation. I am so new and fascinated
with all these flashlight stuffs, so there are few more things to be cleared out:
1. I noticed that in your post you mentioned that:

2x 3.7V Rechargeable Li-Ion RCR123 on P3D rb100 -
works fine at all levels - gets warm but not hot in my limited and short run -

Meaning that if I were to on the flashlight with this configuration, it might get too hot and blow the flashlight?

2. I came across with some UltraFire protected rechargable Li-Ion on ebay,namely the 18650 3.7v 2400mAh (17mm x 67mm) and the 17670 3.7v 1800mAh (17mm x 67mm), can I just stuffs one of these in since the dimension of these Li-On is about the same with 2xCR123? What would happen if I can find a body that house these batts and put in 2x18650 or 2x17670 since it gives the voltage of 7.2v? will it caused any problem in long run with these 1x or 2x configuration?

3. Is it interchangeable for the P3D body with P3D CE Q5 and the P3D RB100 head?

Thnks in advanced
 

UnknownVT

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1.2x 3.7V Rechargeable Li-Ion RCR123 on P3D rb100 -
works fine at all levels - gets warm but not hot in my limited and short run -
Meaning that if I were to on the flashlight with this configuration, it might get too hot and blow the flashlight?

No, perhaps I was not clear it was in Turbo mode on a short run that the flashlight gets warm (but not hot).

However, generally the Turbo mode on Fenix flashlights are driving the LEDs pretty near the limits, and the LED's temperature will rise - enough that Fenix themselves do not recommend running the lights on Turbo for long even on regular primary CR123s -

Please see this crop from their P3D instruction sheet -
P3Dinstr.jpg



2. I came across with some UltraFire protected rechargable Li-Ion on ebay,namely the 18650 3.7v 2400mAh (17mm x 67mm) and the 17670 3.7v 1800mAh (17mm x 67mm), can I just stuffs one of these in since the dimension of these Li-On is about the same with 2xCR123? What would happen if I can find a body that house these batts and put in 2x18650 or 2x17670 since it gives the voltage of 7.2v? will it caused any problem in long run with these 1x or 2x configuration?

My tests above seems to show that Li-Ion rechargeable batteries other than physical size and obviously capacity seem to behave the same way in the P3Drb100.

Since the P3Drb100 ran on 1x RCR123 or 2x RCR123;
and 1x 14500 or 2x 14500 -

The P3D should be able to run on 1x 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion,
or 2x 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion (of any size or capacity as long as one can find bodies that fit them and the P3D head)

However - note the last paragraph/point in the extract from the P3D instruction sheet - Fenix only recommend using 3V CR123 batteries - so please take that into consideration.

3. Is it interchangeable for the P3D body with P3D CE Q5 and the P3D RB100 head?

Yes.
 

dw65

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Hi,
I'm new to the forum and interested in this light. I currently use a Surefire Z2 Combat and E2e Elite for shooting in low light/dark. I want a led light with a strobe feature for use also. I want a light that I can set to bright or strobe and operate with a momentary on/off switch (rear cap button). I don't want to have to push a button several times to get to the feature I need and the specs on this light are not clear if I can do this with this light. If this light does not have those abilities, can you suggest an led of this size which does?

Thank you
 

UnknownVT

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I want a led light with a strobe feature for use also. I want a light that I can set to bright or strobe and operate with a momentary on/off switch (rear cap button). I don't want to have to push a button several times to get to the feature I need and the specs on this light are not clear if I can do this with this light. If this light does not have those abilities, can you suggest an led of this size which does?

First welcome to CPF -

Let me describe how the Fenix "D"igital series work, and you can then decide if it is suitable.

On the Fenix P3D - if the head is screwed down fully (ie: tight) then the light is in the Turbo mode.
with these - 200 lumens (1.8hrs) -> Strobe

On first switching on the light the light is at Turbo/maximum brightness level.

The light changes mode by turning Off and back On within 2 seconds
(which is easily achieved with a simple tap of the reverse clicky tail-switch, causing a momentary off) - the next mode is Strobe.

General Mode is when the head is partially unscrewed -
then it has these -
11 lumens (65hrs) -> 50 lumens (13hrs) -> 112 lumens (4.8hrs) -> SOS
change is also simply tapping the tail-switch.

Hope that was clear enough, and helps some?
 

dw65

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Thank you for the welcome and for your response.

It sounds like the light is designed for constant run conditions, not momentary on/off usage as with the Surefire.
 
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