Fire Foxes IV FF4

[JetskiMark]

Lips,

Those changes sound good. It would be nice if they could be implemented quickly.

It would also be desirable if the battery carrier could be made a few millimeters longer. I had read about people having trouble with 67mm unprotected button top cells not being able to fit. These days, 18650 lights really need to be able to accommodate cells between 65mm and 70mm.

I think that might help increase the sales of this light. If enthusiasts could use the quality 18650 cells that they already have, without having to cut the carrier springs, they might be more inclined to make the purchase. I am aware of the large current draw and that not all protected cells would be able to handle it.

Thank you for all of the time that you have put into this project so far.

 

[RichS]

.
.
Richs, lights are and have been available in the USA. You got one already!

You don't want any improvements or changes to the light?

Can't wait till the train leaves the station as it will be too late...

Lips - that I have one already is not the point. I bought it from a dealer that has them in stock but is not allowed to sell them to U.S. buyers. I'm sworn to secrecy that I bought it from them! What U.S. dealer can you get one from?? Even the front page of the Fire-Foxes website warns about your group buy saying there's no warranty if you buy!

So what am I missing?? Who is selling this light legitimately with a warranty (or not, besides you) to U.S. buyers? I was able to show my friends where they could easily buy an FF3 through an online dealer. Where do I send them to buy the FF4?

In the way of improvements, yes, I agree with your recommendations. They would most definitely make this light even better. But, it's already so amazing at what it delivers in terms of performance, build quality, and even practicality that I almost feel guilty quibbling about the small stuff...

 

[rufus001]

I think the website is referring to other group buys not Lips. He's the guy for the US.

 

[RichS]

I think the website is referring to other group buys not Lips. He's the guy for the US.

Good to know, thanks. I could have sworn it used to reference the one on flashlight-forums where Lips' group buy is! Thanks for correcting me on this. Good to know the FF4 can be purchased via Lips' group buy with a warranty!

 

[LuxLuthor]

Rich, IMHO, if Lips was able to request a nearly exclusive distribution in a geographical market in exchange for taking the risk of a large order and extra repair parts, his initiative should be rewarded and appreciated. This is a typical business practice of various companies picking someone or an existing business to have an exclusive right to sell in their respective country or territory.

In my expierience, Lips has always been a great guy to work with, learn from, and participate in group buys with. Likewise, I think the world of you also, Rich!

 

[Colonel Sanders]

Rich, IMHO, if Lips was able to request a nearly exclusive distribution in a geographical market in exchange for taking the risk of a large order and extra repair parts, his initiative should be rewarded and appreciated. This is a typical business practice of various companies picking someone or an existing business to have an exclusive right to sell in their respective country or territory.

In my expierience, Lips has always been a great guy to work with, learn from, and participate in group buys with. Likewise, I think the world of you also, Rich!

+1 :thumbsup: I agree and I've found it a bit peculiar and unfair to Lips that so many seem to be making a big deal out of it as if he's getting rich at the unfair expense of the helpless. This is a VERY common business practice and without it, I simply wouldn't bother with making these available (WITH WARRANTY) to the US market if I were him. Think about it folks, how would you like to make mere pennies on a product due to tight competition and then have to deal with the headache of the warranty issues that may or may not end up being widespread? I wouldn't touch that with the proverbial 120 inch trimmed tree unless there was enough profit potential to make it worth my while.

Handling the warranty issue is a big deal, IMO.

When I buy, it will be from Lips. I'm going to wait a bit to see if there are UI improvements, however.

 

[rufus001]

I agree but sadly some people only think of themselves.

 

[RichS]

Rich, IMHO, if Lips was able to request a nearly exclusive distribution in a geographical market in exchange for taking the risk of a large order and extra repair parts, his initiative should be rewarded and appreciated. This is a typical business practice of various companies picking someone or an existing business to have an exclusive right to sell in their respective country or territory.

In my expierience, Lips has always been a great guy to work with, learn from, and participate in group buys with. Likewise, I think the world of you also, Rich!

Lux - thanks for the bringing this up, because I apparently gave completely the wrong impression with my question and response to Lips! I think it is a great thing that he is doing for the forum with the group buy, and I am sure it is appreciated by many folks. He is obviously doing this out of the goodness of his heart, because he is surely not making much (if any) money on this. Not only that, he is sacrificing a lot of his time which is more valuable than money (to me at least). So, I want to sincerely apologize for even suggesting that I am not appreciative of all Lips' efforts.

My initial question was truly innocent regarding there were no dealers that are permitted to sell to the U.S. A group-buy in my mind was just that - a group-buy which is facilitated when there is no dealer for a product, or the manufacturer is not willing to sell a low volume of a product. I wasn't looking at Lips as a dealer, but obviously most see him as the dealer/supplier to the U.S.. this is what I think caused some folks to think I was being unnappreciative to Lips (again, sorry for that). If Lips is acting as the sole dealer / provider for the U.S. market, then it makes complete sense that the manufacturer is not permitting other dealers to sell to U.S. consumers to avoid stepping on his toes.

Sorry for the confusion, and Lips - thanks so much for what you're doing!! I'll send my friends who can't live without one of these bad boys your way!

-Rich

 

[one2tim]

I signed up for the FF4 group buy, but 1 day stumbled across a thread in the flashlight forum named: The night reaper - HID series weapons light

After reading that thread theres no way i would ever! buy a FF4 through the group buy. It really sickens me that someone insists/talks about importing cheap copies of fellow forum members Light creations, and even mock the guy saying he don't give a beep. The even uses his moderator powers to delete unwanted posts.

If i could not buy the light other places i would rather be without.

 

[jmpaul320]

I signed up for the FF4 group buy, but 1 day stumbled across a thread in the flashlight forum named: The night reaper - HID series weapons light

After reading that thread theres no way i would ever! buy a FF4 through the group buy. It really sickens me that someone insists/talks about importing cheap copies of fellow forum members Light creations, and even mock the guy saying he don't give a beep. The even uses his moderator powers to delete unwanted posts.

If i could not buy the light other places i would rather be without.

??????????

 

[LuxLuthor]

Lux - thanks for the bringing this up, because I apparently gave completely the wrong impression with my question and response to Lips! I think it is a great thing that he is doing for the forum with the group buy, and I am sure it is appreciated by many folks. He is obviously doing this out of the goodness of his heart, because he is surely not making much (if any) money on this. Not only that, he is sacrificing a lot of his time which is more valuable than money (to me at least). So, I want to sincerely apologize for even suggesting that I am not appreciative of all Lips' efforts.

My initial question was truly innocent regarding there were no dealers that are permitted to sell to the U.S. A group-buy in my mind was just that - a group-buy which is facilitated when there is no dealer for a product, or the manufacturer is not willing to sell a low volume of a product. I wasn't looking at Lips as a dealer, but obviously most see him as the dealer/supplier to the U.S.. this is what I think caused some folks to think I was being unnappreciative to Lips (again, sorry for that). If Lips is acting as the sole dealer / provider for the U.S. market, then it makes complete sense that the manufacturer is not permitting other dealers to sell to U.S. consumers to avoid stepping on his toes.

Sorry for the confusion, and Lips - thanks so much for what you're doing!! I'll send my friends who can't live without one of these bad boys your way!

-Rich

That's the Rich I know you to be. Well said. :thumbsup:

I think it may be a case of the company in Asia viewing Lips as a Dealer/Distributor/Business Entity status, and then granting him exclusive (or at least protected) reseller/"retail" sale rights, even if he is not in what you and I would think of as a more typical retail dealer/seller. In other words, they may not discern a group buy from a typical wholesaler/retailer/dealer. There may be some other cultural nuances at play that neither of us are aware of.

 

[Lips]

I signed up for the FF4 group buy, but 1 day stumbled across a thread in the flashlight forum named: The night reaper - HID series weapons light

After reading that thread theres no way i would ever! buy a FF4 through the group buy. It really sickens me that someone insists/talks about importing cheap copies of fellow forum members Light creations, and even mock the guy saying he don't give a beep. The even uses his moderator powers to delete unwanted posts.

If i could not buy the light other places i would rather be without.

Tim, you sound emotional about Ken or Polarion. Are you talking about Ken taking the CSWL Night Reaper away from Polarion and making it himself under his brand or Polarion getting mad and selling Polarions without Ken. I'm confused and don't know anything about deleted post...

Lux - thanks for the bringing this up, because I apparently gave completely the wrong impression with my question and response to Lips! I think it is a great thing that he is doing for the forum with the group buy, and I am sure it is appreciated by many folks. He is obviously doing this out of the goodness of his heart, because he is surely not making much (if any) money on this. Not only that, he is sacrificing a lot of his time which is more valuable than money (to me at least). So, I want to sincerely apologize for even suggesting that I am not appreciative of all Lips' efforts.

My initial question was truly innocent regarding there were no dealers that are permitted to sell to the U.S. A group-buy in my mind was just that - a group-buy which is facilitated when there is no dealer for a product, or the manufacturer is not willing to sell a low volume of a product. I wasn't looking at Lips as a dealer, but obviously most see him as the dealer/supplier to the U.S.. this is what I think caused some folks to think I was being unnappreciative to Lips (again, sorry for that). If Lips is acting as the sole dealer / provider for the U.S. market, then it makes complete sense that the manufacturer is not permitting other dealers to sell to U.S. consumers to avoid stepping on his toes.

Sorry for the confusion, and Lips - thanks so much for what you're doing!! I'll send my friends who can't live without one of these bad boys your way!

-Rich

My apologies to you Rich as it so hard to keep up with all the info even for me. Wish I could have explained it better but tried to stay away from too much of that. It is time consuming and one better have an appreciation and enjoy the technology to take it on. Appreciate the kinds words from those and since I'm around almost everyday for years I better make sure I do it right to keep my butt out of hot water with the guys and gals here!

 

[Dave_5280]

How long can it run at 24 and 40W?

 

[luminositykilledthecat...]

Hey Guys

Some help needed here...
Last night I took my new FF4 out along with my OSTS Modded TN31 (246kcd), first run XM-L version.
I purchased it from flashlight-torch.com.
Trouble is, my FF4 DOES NOT out-throw my TN31? It's more or less about the same throw as the TN31, it lights up so much more in general, but it does not out-throw it.

I am running Panasonic NCR18650PD's, fully charged. I made damn sure that I was using the 60W setting, I am using the UI correctly.
It's just that I have seen pictures of light meter readings for the FF4 showing that it has around 4 times the lux of the Olight X6, so I was expecting it to have more than 246kcd which my TN31 has.

When shining the FF4 around on a target at about 350m (huge tree line on edge of forest) it does not seem to have a defined hot-spot as such, more or less just one huge, and I mean really really huge! wall of light. So to sum up what I'm seeing with my unit - around 240kcd but rather than a 'hot spot' like my TN31, it just lights up a stupidly large area, but does not actually out throw the TN31.

The bulb on mine is slightly not straight could this be the trouble? Any ideas ?

 

[oatmanutd]

I am not sure that TN31 and TK75 with one is the better thrower but my FF4 with 4 Panasonic 3400mah at 40W and 60W Difinitely out throw my TK75 with 4 Panasonic 3100mah on turbo mode.

 

[Fresh Light]

Visually, it can be hard to tell which is the better thrower when both lights are so much different. When the LED light is mostly concentrated into a defined hotspot. I had an osts tn31 like yours

and it had a nice dim circular flood and a concentrated hotspot. I think the bright forefront flooding of the FF4 may make it seem less. Only way to know for sure is put measure the lux from several meters back. I won't know the what the characteristics of the FF4 till I get mine probably tomorrow. Can you take a pic of the bulb alignment?

 

[LuxLuthor]

Hey Guys

Some help needed here...
Last night I took my new FF4 out along with my OSTS Modded TN31 (246kcd), first run XM-L version.
I purchased it from flashlight-torch.com.
Trouble is, my FF4 DOES NOT out-throw my TN31? It's more or less about the same throw as the TN31, it lights up so much more in general, but it does not out-throw it.

I am running Panasonic NCR18650PD's, fully charged. I made damn sure that I was using the 60W setting, I am using the UI correctly.
It's just that I have seen pictures of light meter readings for the FF4 showing that it has around 4 times the lux of the Olight X6, so I was expecting it to have more than 246kcd which my TN31 has.

When shining the FF4 around on a target at about 350m (huge tree line on edge of forest) it does not seem to have a defined hot-spot as such, more or less just one huge, and I mean really really huge! wall of light. So to sum up what I'm seeing with my unit - around 240kcd but rather than a 'hot spot' like my TN31, it just lights up a stupidly large area, but does not actually out throw the TN31.

The bulb on mine is slightly not straight could this be the trouble? Any ideas ?

My first response to a TN31 XM-L out-throwing a FF4 is preposterous....as in there is something seriously wrong with your FF4. Of course the bulb should always be straight, and if not it may indicate damage has occurred.

Even taking into account that the tremendous short distance light splash with the FF4 wiping out your night adapted vision to see farther away (like turning on the bright mode of your car headlights in fog), this doesn't make sense. Before you confirm the issue (meaning something defective with the FF4), I would have someone alternatively turn both on and point at a far away target after you have walked down and stood next to. That will eliminate the question of spill blindness.

 

[rdrfronty]

My first response to a TN31 XM-L out-throwing a FF4 is preposterous....as in there is something seriously wrong with your FF4. Of course the bulb should always be straight, and if not it may indicate damage has occurred.

Even taking into account that the tremendous short distance light splash with the FF4 wiping out your night adapted vision to see farther away (like turning on the bright mode of your car headlights in fog), this doesn't make sense. Before you confirm the issue (meaning something defective with the FF4), I would have someone alternatively turn both on and point at a far away target after you have walked down and stood next to. That will eliminate the question of spill blindness.

Only problem there is your assuming that the FF4 really does throw 450k or 1500m like the manufacturer says. Apparently nobody that owns one has been able to do any independent testing yet. At least not that I've seen. From a few owners observations and from several beamshots posted around, it looks doubtful it can truly throw 1500m. I'm thinking it might be closer to 300k. And there are obviously XML/XM-L2's throwing that far. But I don't own a FF4 and I might be totally wrong on its throw. Hopefully I am wrong. And if I am, I will likely be buying one. Even if it can only do 300k or so, its still a cool little light.
So somebody needs to do some lux testing at a reasonable distance (not 1-3m) or at least do some long distant beamshots against a serious throwing LED.

 

[LuxLuthor]

Many of us have the FF3 and a number of other cutting edge HID spotlights. So we know what that one can do. We have also seen some photos comparing FF3 to FF4, with the latter soundly trouncing the beejeebies out of its predescessor. There's measurements floating around somewhere but I don't remember which threads. Maybe someday one of us will do some actual comparison measurements. Maybe when I get my DEFT-X.

 

[BVH]

Always hate to see references to small, hand-held lights "throwing 1500 meters/Yards" Utterly ridiculous. Even a Gen3 Maxabeam is pretty much useless at that distance - unless it's on a steady tripod and you're using an 8" or better telescope to view the target.