first li-ion torch? im thinking ra clicky

[zenlunatic]

I was thinking of getting a ra clicky and running it off one of these using this to charge. I would also pick up a ZTS tester (not mini) and a voltmeter.

I like how the ra is designed for rcr123 as well as having over discharge protection, as well as some other neat safety features.

Do you guys think this is a good start for entering the li-ion world? If anyone has suggestions I have the dough to get another light as well (stay in school kids).

And yes, I know to respect li-ion cells. I've lurked my fair share of battery threads. However I appreciate lights which assist in increasing safe li-ion use (ra clicky seems to).

 

[kramer5150]

A DMM is a must with Lithium Ion cells IMHO. Without one you have no real way of knowing how the cells are behaving during charge, storage and discharge.

I would opt for a better charger... or at least a DMM to monitor charge behavior.

 

[zenlunatic]

Whats a DMM? What charger should I go for?

 

[kramer5150]

Pila IBCT has an impeccable track record on CPF. I don't own one personally, but given its popularity and that I can't recall ANY failure reports/complaints... it seems like a really nice, worry free setup.

If you dont mind dabbling in DIY, Hobby chargers are my preference since they can charge everything Pb, LiPo and NiMH and everything in between. I use a cheap Mystery hobby charger and its worked like a charm. But there are better ones out there. As for the DIY side of it, you'll need to wire up a charging bay or magnet adapters if you want to use a hobby charger.

Oh.. DMM = digital multi meter

 

[zenlunatic]

So I would use the DMM to tell that the rcr123 is at a certain voltage?

 

[abarth_1200]

Digital Multi Meter, DMM

 

[F250XLT]

I have a Pila charger and love it, highly recommended. Question, won't a voltmeter give you everything a ZTC tester will?

 

[DM51]

Seems a shame to buy a fine-quality light and then cheap out on crappy Ultrafire cells (just about the worst you can get) and a cheap charger.

Save $$ by not buying the ZTS, unless you need it for other chemistries. It's no use for testing Li-Ion cells - you need a DMM/voltmeter for that, as Kramer and F250XLT say.

 

[zenlunatic]

I thought the ZTS would help you make sure the cells have the same capacity. If there is a match, my understanding is that you make sure they have the same voltage readings, and if so you're good to go on using those cells. But that may be irrelevant on single-cell lights, now that I think about it.

I didn't know about the Pila charger and AW cells. I have the money, so I'm glad you guys told me about them prior to my pulling the trigger at lighthound.

 

[zenlunatic]

I thought the ZTS would help you make sure the cells have the same capacity. If there is a match, my understanding is that you make sure they have the same voltage readings, and if so you're good to go on using those cells. But that may be irrelevant on single-cell lights, now that I think about it. I Thought the ZTS was part of every flashaholic's basic kit.

I didn't know about the Pila charger and AW cells. I have the money, so I'm glad you guys told me about them prior to my pulling the trigger at lighthound.

 

[WildChild]

You don't have to worry about mismatch as the Ra Clicky is a one cell light. So, no need for the ZST with this light. As written in the instructions, just make sure you only put a fully recharged cell in it to make sure the uC recognise it as a rechargeable and set the low level voltage accordingly. If you unscrew the body with a half-depleted rechargeable, don't use it again before you charged it.

About the charger, I also recommend the Pila charger with AW cells. Both have been perfect for me in the last two years. The charger only charges up to 4.17V. While it's not "fully" charged, it's not overcharged! You can be sure your cells will like you for it. Also, it charges RCR123A in about 1h which is handy.

This said, I just received a Ra Clicky (100 lumens, high CRI). I love this light! While I won't use it with rechargeables, I still tested them and the low level warning comes when the cell is at around 3.2V on my DMM (probably 3V under load?). I got a runtime between 55 mins and 65 mins with two years old AW RCR123A. Not bad at all!

 

[zenlunatic]

Seems a shame to buy a fine-quality light and then cheap out on crappy Ultrafire cells (just about the worst you can get) and a cheap charger.

Save $$ by not buying the ZTS, unless you need it for other chemistries. It's no use for testing Li-Ion cells - you need a DMM/voltmeter for that, as Kramer and F250XLT say.

So you can measure the capacity (power remaining) of a battery by checking how off from its stated voltage is? So a 1.5V battery near .75V at half capacity?

If you can use a DMM, why would anyone buy a $70 ZTS tester?

 

[DM51]

So you can measure the capacity (power remaining) of a battery by checking how off from its stated voltage is? So a 1.5V battery near .75V at half capacity?

If you can use a DMM, why would anyone buy a $70 ZTS tester?

A DMM is the best tool to use for Li-Ion cells, as the cell's voltage will tell you all you need to know.

That is not the case for other chemistries (Li primary, NiMH, alkaline etc). For those chemistries, cell voltage alone will not tell you very much and a ZTS is a better indicator.

 

[higbvuyb]

So you can measure the capacity (power remaining) of a battery by checking how off from its stated voltage is? So a 1.5V battery near .75V at half capacity?

If you can use a DMM, why would anyone buy a $70 ZTS tester?

It's a bit more complicated than that. You can charge up to a voltage of your choice, and as you go higher, you gain capacity but lose safety and lose battery charge cycles.
Similarly, you can choose how far down you discharge the battery, but if you overdischarge, you put the battery at risk when you charge it up again.

Most people agree on charging up to 4.20V. You can go a bit lower and you gain battery longevity and lose a little bit of capacity, but don't go over. Low quality chargers like ones from Dealextreme can often go over 4.20 volts.

You should top up your battery as often as possible, but generally don't go below 3.6 volts. However, you can recharge batteries you've drained below that if you're careful.

The DMM will give you a rough idea of how much capacity you have left, it isn't linear between 4.2V and 3.6V. You should also remember that if you put the battery under load, the voltage will go down and take a few minutes to recover, so you should 'rest' your battery before you check the voltage.

 

[JCD]

Most people agree on charging up to 4.20V. You can go a bit lower and you gain battery longevity and lose a little bit of capacity, but don't go over.

The general recommendation for open voltage right off the charger is 4.20 V ±0.05 V. So, charging to 4.25 V is still considered safe. Just as charging to only 4.15 V can improve cell life at the expense of capacity, charging to 4.25 V can improve capacity, at the expense of cell life.

We have to keep in mind that cell life of Li-ion cells is dependent not only on the number of charge cycles, but also on calendar age. Depending on how a particular user uses and stores his cells, it might be more pragmatic from an economic standpoint to aim for 4.25 V off the charger than for 4.15 V, or vice versa. 4.20 V is a nice number equidistant between those two values, but is not necessarily the optimal level.

 

[zenlunatic]

So while youre charging your Li Ion cells you have to sit there and continuously measure the voltage until you reach 4.2V?

 

[higbvuyb]

So while youre charging your Li Ion cells you have to sit there and continuously measure the voltage until you reach 4.2V?

A good quality charger will automatically cut off close to 4.20 volts.
Cheap chargers will eventually slow down to a trickle (and the charge indicator will light up) somewhere around 4.20 volts.