First post! Looking for a great defensive light!

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Flea Bag

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AESOP said:
One quick point on the U2, I noticed lately several people comment that SF is once again listing the rating as 2 - 100 lumens. I can in fact confirm that my new U2 is rated as that.

Michael

That's even closer to my needs! I just hope they don't come up with a 120 lumen model of the U2 just after I purchase one! I read somewhere that 120 lumen LED was produced by Luxeon.

By the way, would anyone happen to know if the GG&G bezel attachment can be fitted to the U2? Does the U2 have the same bezel size as the other SureFires that are listed on the GG&G site?
 

cy

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welcome to cpf...

if you want to blind someone thru eyelids, you need some muscle or 500+ lumens. or Surefire M6 class light.

M6 is one of smallest lights available delivering that type of output.

now if you want to stun and/or disorient someone go for U2 or Gladius, which has a strobe designed to disorient someone . it flat works, just more on some people. these two lights will get closest to your posted requirements.

it may not be possible to meet all your requirements. A tri-Ubin 2C mag mod driven by 2x 17500 li-ion my come close to 200 lumens and is smaller than M6, but not by much.

here's size comp for ya:

M6, tri Ubin, U2, Gladius

m6 u2.JPG
 

UVvis

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To not go into to much detail, as it would be a book, you need to consider what you are looking for.

For me the Gladius fits the bill perfectly.

Pros: Multi level outputs, LED, BLINDING ANNOYING IRRITATING STROBE, and a long run time.

Cons: It is a little large to carry around all the time, I don't carry mine all the time.

Self defense is just like the rest of your life, and excercise in compromise. Knowing your limitations will help you decide on where to go. With some training, a light can be an effective tool and can give you a big upper hand. With no training, it could get you hurt worse. Your brain is your best tool and should be employed to its furthest possible capacity in any encounter. Just shining a bright light on someone might discourage them, or it might upset them to the point they want be violent.

A gladius review I did a while ago: http://www.night-ops.com/pdfs/Gladius-Passaround.pdf
 

elgarak

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I think no one mentioned the strobe mode of the Gladius. That's frickin' annoying. Not really blinding, but good enough to distract/disorient. But keep the pepper spray/knife/gun ready, when they get angry and try to slap in general direction of the light...Don't forget proper training with all 'defensive' tools...And keep a cool head...

Edit: Dang...Beaten by two minutes.
 

Lmtfi

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If I were concerned for my safety I would not look to a flashlight as my primary (or secondary) means to defend myself. I have known more than my share of criminally bad actors and I can assure you that the primary effect of you whipping out a Surefire et al will be to (ever so) briefly disrupt the proceedings with laughter - followed by them taking it away from you before the thumping begins.

If you plan to use a flashlight, kubaton, extensible baton, stick, knife or anything else to avoid a beating - you should pay for professional training on how to use it, when to use it, tactics, retention and when to run. Don't discount the latter - your pride will heal faster than your bones.

A flashlight is a tool of last resort - I'll even say that it is a poor tool for self defense. Its a light - not a magic wand when you are about to be in over your head.
 

PoliceScannerMan

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If your worried about gays, quit wearing the rainbows man!!! :)

Your obviously attracting them somehow, are you metrosexual?

Change the way you dress or wear ugly baggy clothes to the gym.

A light will not solve your problem, think about it. If some one was coming at me, I rather have pepper spray than a strobe light....

:touche: Good luck. :touche:

-PSM
 

Icebreak

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I'll be the worst capable to advise you on this because I don't believe that most small lights can be used defensively with just the photons being all that is used for defense. In an urban environment with street lights and car headlights ablaze it takes, in my opinion, a lot of lumens to dissuade approach. To momentarily disorient is a more easily attained goal. With proper training a small light can be used effectively as a kuboton.

For your purposes I would recommend a dedicated light that was incandescent. Those lamps don't like to be dimmed. There is a process within the lamp that requires high operating temperature. The best I can think of that would fit in a pocket and meet your output requirement would be a Surefire C3. With standard P90 lamp you'll get 105 lumens for an hour. With the optional High Output Lamp Assembly (HOLA) you'll get 200 lumens for 20 minutes. One wonderful thing about Surefire is that if they claim 200 lumens you get 200 lumens projected out of the torch.

I'm guessing that you are in the UK? If so, then obviously you can't carry an edged weapon or firearm. I think I understand what you are trying to achieve. So, I'll tell you another theory I have. Something is better than nothing. If you have as yet not taken defense training it may be wise to do so. If you blast someone in the eyes be prepared to run fast or fight well.

 
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kennyj

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To reiterate some of what has already been said:

For self-defense, a light is, at best, a tool that can momentarily blind.

That's it. Assuming it *is* bright enough to blind and not simply agitate, you get an opening of .5 to 5 seconds in which to follow up with a physical attack or get a head start running the hell away. As for which you do, I'll put it simply: unless you have a damn good reason for not doing so, run the hell away at your earliest opportunity. Not only is this safer, but in many cases it's the only legal option.

To give you an idea of the sort of mentality you need to have: I work security and when I train a newbie, one thing I always ask is: "If someone points a gun at your head, what do you do?" There's only one answer I'll accept: "Whatever he says." You need to remember that priority 1 is self-preservation, and that doesn't go hand-in-hand with getting one over on a bully (a common mentality.)

That BS aside, some lights can be used as a physical weapon as has been stated in the thread, but it's not something that comes naturally to most people. Look up some information on kubotans, koppo sticks, yawara, and batons (if you manage to find yourself carrying a 3D/4C or larger Maglite or similar light) to determine whether or not this is something you're willing to try. Make sure you gain an understanding of how this stuff really works, how you'd be able to use it, what effect it can have, what sort of trouble it can get you into, etc. before you commit to anything. And remember... it doesn't matter how many illustrations you read through, it's all meaningless without practice.

Now, while a flashlight can be useful given the right form factor and weight, it's often better to have something else on-hand that is capable of fulfilling the role of a physical defense tool. Personally, I carry a Sanford Sensa pen, the gel ink with stylus version (available at Office Max) which is a very capable kubotan but also functions exceptionally well as a pen. Any sufficiently sturdy pen will work (this one's made of stainless steel and weighs nearly as much as a minimag sans batteries...) There are other tools available, such as the Comtech Stinger, which are more effective (though also more obvious and legally questionable) than most improvised or dual-use implements, and easier to use, which you may want to consider.

A good resource for is http://www.donrearic.com for general reading and ideas, as well as Google. In fact, there's a fair amount of info on the use of flashlights for self-defense. Read as much as you can; DR's word is not gospel, but he knows his poop.

Your first priority, however, will be to read and understand the ethics of weapon use. Some interesting reading: http://www.selfdefenseforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9841
http://www.selfdefenseforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9671
http://www.selfdefenseforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=497&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
(I'm not a member, but I seem to find heaps of good info here.)

Also, some relevant writing on the subject of using a light to blind, and the use of a TID:
http://donrearic.com/tidinova.htm
I especially agree with the author on the GG&G's drawbacks. Note that a simpler, more traditional crennelated bezel will have less tearing and better force application. It might also have less legal murkiness attached (part of the light, or at least looks like it, versus nasty-looking aftermarket modification.)

Other commentary:

An OC spray is one of the most effective defensive tools possible for someone without hand-to-hand training. ASP makes a pen-style spray (called the Key Defender, I think) that can also be used as a kubotan, so if you want to go this route, that would be an excellent idea. FYI, I carry my pen in my back pocket and my shirt hangs over it... that'd also be a good way to carry this device. Bear in mind, however, that OC effectiveness varies with the individual, and some can even build up a resistance or even immunity to the chemical. Much like a bright light, it gives you an opportunity to get away - you do NOT use it offensively.

The new smaller TigerLight looks like an interesting tool. One of the options shown adds small protrusions around the front bezel that might make it an effective short club (for swinging) in addition to its spray/blinging capability.

Big Mag-Lites may be tempting, but the D cell models and Mag Charger are heavy enough that most people can easily screw themselves over by swinging and missing. C cell models are far better for anything shy of sheer impact force, but still difficult to wield. As with any large impact weapon, you need to consider weight. Also consider how you'd carry such a monstrosity. Same goes for the full-size TigerLight.

If you're really worried about a threat to your life, a small edged weapon might be worth considering. Most states do allow for concealed carry of small "common" pocket knives, and with practice/training they can be devastating in a fight. Even a keychain knife, properly applied, can save your life. You absolutely positively MUST have training, however.

To get back to the original subject... to use a light for blinding you can get away with as little as 40 lumens, but it depends on the amount of ambient light, proximity, and focus (ie. lux measurements have a big impact here, but with focus comes increased need for a good aim.) For instance, my McLuxIII-PD can momentarily blind under the right circumstances and it's probably no brighter than 55 lumens, possibly as low as 40, but then I'm not dealing with a lot of ambient light and I'm testing it on myself (arm's length or less.) In any case, you'll need to experiment in your own environment to determine how much is enough. I'd recommend picking up a Brinkmann Maxfire LX or a Dorcy Spyder. The Maxfire LX is available at Target and Wal-Mart stores for under $20 (and it can take Surefire lamp assemblies and some mods meant for the 6P Nitrolon, though possibly not the HOLA stuff) and the Spyder can be found for a comparable price (might be more expensive) at Lowe's and I think Costco. I think they're both over 60 lumens, the Spyder is the brighter of the two from what I've heard. There might be other good lights available locally (Target is now carrying Innovas in some stores.)

Good luck, and don't do anything stupid over something pointless. :)
 

MedusaOblongata

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Flea Bag said:
!
Background: I really need a reliable and effective light for my safety. I'm shorter than 170cm and unfortunately, (again I don't mean to sound too much) but gays (I'm a straight male) are always giving me the 'look' and that always worries me. I currently use a pepper spray but I feel a light is better for my purposes.

This is funny!

Here's my background. I'm a straight male. I live in San Francisco. I get the "look" from gay men all the time. I get approached by gay men fairly regularly. It's really not a problem. I carry multiple weapons on me at all times, I don't carry them for gays. The most I've ever had to do to dissuade a guy who was interested in me was to say, "no thank you." This is even at gay clubs, gay bars, gay pride events, etc., where the assumption is that most of the guys there are probably gay. When I'm on the street at night and see a guy close by, and I can tell he's probably gay by his demeanor, voice, dress, etc., I stop worrying if he's a threat. Gay men are notoriously nonviolent. Unless you're in prison, you don't need to worry about gays. At most, some harsh words may be necessary, though they never have been for me. You are extremely unlikely to need to defend yourself against gay men who find you attractive.

You might want to take a look at you homophobia as the source of your discomfort.

Think of it like being hit on by a woman you're not interested in. All you need is a "sorry tuts, you're not my type." You don't need weapons to defend yourself.

Next time a guy tries to snuggle up next to you, try this line, "Sorry sweetheart, but I'm taken, and if I so much as look at another guy, my boyfriend would break him in half. Have a good night." That should solve all of your problems.

You should get a good flashlight, though, to help you see in the dark.
 

kennyj

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MedusaOblongata said:
Kennyj and I posted at the same time, but his information is good. Especially the last line.
Why thank you. I second the bit about homophobia, as well. I get it a bit where I live as well (Orlando, FL) and, similarly, I've never needed more than a "no thank you."
 

lahjik

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kennyj said:
Why thank you. I second the bit about homophobia, as well. I get it a bit where I live as well (Orlando, FL) and, similarly, I've never needed more than a "no thank you."

And thanks to both of you for bringing a bit of reason back into this discussion. I have come to love this place for its open and generous attitude. Kind of odd to see the big red Katrina Relief Raffle button up in the corner on a thread where the community is actively facilitating the literal bashing of gays.

Maybe Flea Bag would like to post his name and location? Then we can alert the authorities in the area that if he is ever involved in a "self-defense" attack they can know it was actually a premeditated hate crime.

I have no suggestions for flashlights as I refuse to condone (much less support!) hate crimes. I would, however, recommend some anger management and/or other counseling programs.
 

Pydpiper

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I was wondering when someone would try to put a spin on this..
I think we can rule out "premeditated hate crime", other wise he would have given the guy on the bus a good smack, I would have, after about a three second warning.
It sounds more to me like he is preparing himself to provide the protection he may need if one of these "not quite a gentleman" decides to cross a line. That is not to be confused with setting out looking for a fight. If people took the time to educate/train themselves it would result in less crime, not more.

And seeing how I managed to get the bus situation brought back up..
You say you were in uniform with your "Mate" so I am assuming Navy, if your mate was a construction worker and the guy that came to sit beside you was in full indian garb, DO NOT try to find a police man for help! :grin2:

preparation and premeditation are two different things.
 
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