FirstLight Liberator

[porschefan]

Don't know how many folks here are into tactical illumination versus just being light hounds but figured I'd post this. I had a chance to play with the FirstLight Liberator over the weekend and came away impressed with it.

The president of FirstLight, Clyce Caceras, came the LFI-I class I was attending and demonstrated their new light. Uses LumiLEDs, 80+ lumens on high, 90 minute runtime on high, 60 hours on low. Uses 2 CR123A batteries and is really slick. Forget everything you've been taught about using a tactical flashlight, no more Harris (my primary hold), Chapman, FBI, etc. techniques. How does carrying blinding tactical illumination and still being able to use a two-handed shooting technique (like my beloved Weaver) sound? No, it's not a weapon mount light, it's a very new way of approaching flashlight design.

All the pluses of carrying tactical illum, none of the downsides of weapon mount lights or modified two-handed techniques. I know I sound like a shill or a cheerleader here but it really is an innovative, interesting new approach to flashlight design. After Clyde showed it off I tried it out using handguns, a CAR-15 and just general purpose illumination. I really liked this light.

I'm not sure about pricing or current availability, I know they're initially targeting LE and other first responders but I'm putting this one on my "To Purchase" list.

P.S. Clyde, if you happen to read this, yes this is the chubby Asian guy in the back of the class who kept asking for a "Testing Sample". I'm still waiting for it man!

 

[nerdgineer]

So if you're not tieing up one of your hands with the light, and it's not attached to the weapon, then it must be.....

gloved to the back of your hand?

strapped to your body?

held in your mouth?

attached to the magazine?

...come on, we need a hint here...

 

[porschefan]

Strapped around the hand with variable illum and modes at the touch of the thumb.

 

[CeilingDweller]

I presume one would have to wear this thing all the time? How can you quickly deploy such a product. I'd like to learn more about this one. Thanks for sharing Porshefan. Good luck with your training!

 

[porschefan]

I know they've got a website but I don't know the address offhand. The company is FirstLight USA. I mentioned this forum to Clyde and he indicated he checks it occasionally, maybe he'll see your post and provide some more info.

 

[Culhain]

http://www.first-light-usa.com/index.php

 

[LukeA]

www.first-light-usa.com/

When I posted this, the other one wasn't here.

 

[CeilingDweller]

Thanks for the website! I'm going to check it out now.

 

[mohr]

there is a new version of the liberator that will hit the market soon. The liberator ST (strobe) it has the new P4 SSC led and a strobe mode. The touchpad is progammable (strobe or momentary on the left or right side). it has some small but very important technical details changed like bigger constant on button, steel construction at the moving parts of the grip ..... i am glad to have a test unit that i carry on my dutybelt right now ;-) its great to have a company that reacts so fast to the end users input.

i carried a P4 gladius on my belt for the last 8 months but retired the gladius the moment the Liberator St arrived.

It has some features that i missed on the gladius. first you can switsch between constant on (3 levels) and momentary high or strobe with just on click on the touchpad. with the gladius you had to switch on the flashlight after you changed from constant to montary or strobe and back to constant on. with the liberator you select a level and just hit the touchpad on the left or right side to activate the strobe or high beam. if you release the presure on the touchpad, the light goes back to constant on with your selected level.

shooting with the liberator is much easier as with any kind of flashlight and having two hands to grap and work is for a policeofficer very important.

you can use normal cr123a batteries or use rechargeable R123a cells. runtime is like any 2 cell CR123a P4 led flashlight. The output is a little less bright than my P4 gladius but the still very bright (+120lm).

i think its the best dutyflashlight that you can wear on your dutybelt at the moment. there are others that you can or must use on duty (like flashlights with more throw and power) but as primary flashlight i would say the the new liberator strobe is the way to go.

christian

 

[dano]

IMHO, this light is not very useful.

Very often, there isn't time to deploy a device in which both hands (and attention) must be diverted to the light in order to properly secure the light to the hand.

Hesitation is one of the deadliest factors in a LEO force on force incident, and attempting to deploy a complicated light attached to one hand isn't safe, nor practical.

Reviewing the website, and the claims, it seems that all the usage depends on a static deployment.

-dan

 

[10mmWiseman]

Clyde Caceres is a very good friend of mine and I have watched him demonstrate the Liberator many times.

The Liberator is not a average guy carry light, it is a duty light or home defense light. In these instances your have the opportunity to deploy the light (i.e. bump in the night and you go to investigate, police officer needs light on night time traffic stop, enters dark building, etc...)

It can be deployed and activated from it's holster as fast as any other light with a switch if that is what you are worried about, to use it along with the gun with a 2 handed grip it requires the extra step of twisting the light body that takes about .5 of a second. The switch and modes are very accessible and be done one handed.

Clyde is a legit bad *** and one of the premier firearm, law enforcement, force on force instructors in the world. He does not lend his name to crap nor put crap on the market.

The Liberator is not the end all be all of lights, but it does fill a nitch because it replaces your duty light, tac light that hangs off your gun, and general home utility light in one nice package.

 

[mohr]

I am a police officer and i have changed from gladius to liberator as dutylight.
its a great light and thats all.
test it and you will know what difference it is to have both hands free and a strobe mode in a flashlight.
you can use and draw it in utilitymode in the same time as any other flashlight. if you are doing trafficstops or searching a car/building you have plenty of time to attach the light to your hand before starting the search.
try to handcuff a guy in the dark with a flashlight in your hand.

mohr

 

[Lightraven]

There are times when I can't mess around with strapping a light to my hand, things are happening too fast. But I would estimate this is less than 50% of the time.

Quite often, I need to use both my hands, but must see what I'm doing at the same time. This doesn't usually involve a handgun (which can be fired one handed), but rather handcuffing, performing a takedown, climbing, searching someone, a car or bag, digging out a vehicle, attaching a tow strap, hooking up jumper cables, changing a tire or providing first aid.

I have found many ways to accomplish these tasks, but if the Liberator provided another solution, I would be interested. For gun purposes, I would rather use a weaponlight, if possible, because the alignment of the beam and muzzle is the trickiest part of shooting with a light and gun.

10MM Wiseman, what do you mean that Mr. Caceres is a legit bad ***? What is his background? I'm not challenging this, but I'm always curious about people who have experience.

 

[10mmWiseman]

10MM Wiseman, what do you mean that Mr. Caceres is a legit bad ***? What is his background? I'm not challenging this, but I'm always curious about people who have experience.

Google his name.

 

[ClydeCaceres]

Clyde Caceres here chiming in. I don't frequent forums often so I'd like to apologize up front if I'm breaking protocol. A colleague called my attention to the on-going discussion so I thought I'd step up.

First of all, I'd like to thank Mr. Mohr and Mr. Wiseman for their support and encouragement. We are all about objective testing and evaluation and I know both have put our lights to the test.

Second....I'd like say, that since I do work for First Light USA, I will try and be as respectful and objective as I can and convey only what I believe to be valid and substantiated information.

Regarding use of white light in the tactical environment, my comments, and I can also speak for First Light USA, come with the utmost of respect for the many excellent flashlight manufacturers out there who have blazed a trail, taking flashlights from where they started since the first patent for a flashlight was applied for about 110 years ago. These companies have led the way in bringing us to the advanced position we are at today. Thank you.

With this in mind, First Light did NOT choose to play in the world of flashlights as we knew them....hollow tubes with a light emitter at one end and a switch somewhere on the tube (side or rear or both). As I said, there are MANY companies doing an excellent job of building superb flashlights. WE CHOSE INSTEAD to look at lighting from a complete paradigm shift. We chose to approach hand held lighting from the perspective of ergonomics, utility, readiness, and function.

We are real guys, driven to produce the smartest tools in lighting. Our goal is simple and sincere; provide for our professionals, tools that help them work or fight safer. Our pillars of design are: hands-free, hands-enabling and hands-directed.

Our new platforms compare with traditional flashlights equally on the playing field of lumen output, battery life etc. Then we go beyond the "usuals" to places no other hand held light can go. We question HOW it works on your hand and how YOU work with it on your hand, rather than simply....can we build another "tube" shaped flashlight.

Our Liberator Tactical Light does look different.....about as different as the new I-phone or modern cell phone does from the "rotary", black, wired to the wall, land line phone designed by Alexander Graham Bell or even from the "bricks" that were early cell phones. Function, utility, ergonomics, are advancing. First Light is throwing away the rule book.

Some people thrive with paradigm shifts....some people are more comfortable sticking with what they "always" knew. So be it. We're movng forward.

Our goal at First Light is to try and open the field regarding WHAT is new and what is innovative. Supporters of existing form factors, "tube lights", argue about.....lumens, composition material, color, size, weight, location of clips, lanyard lengths, price and which of the 12 flashlight "techniques" they like best. NO one else has addressed the "form factor" utility....until First Light.

So....I understand that some new products flourish and some fall flat on their face. My request is simple,that as WE ALL evaluate new ideas and form factors in "any" new product evolution, with a skeptical but an open mind, utilizing HONEST/VALID and OPEN testing. Preconceived bias or pre-ordained results are a product of opinions. And we all know how valid "opinions" are.

At First Light, we are taking our products FIRST, to Law Enforcement, to the Army and to professionals who can help us discover what's best for them. There may be some revisions, we may take a couple of knocks...BUT....if they are valid knocks....we receive them well and try to grow.

So, players on CPF, I'm open to questions and comments. I'm sure some questions will be about , "wearing it on your hand instead of "carrying" it in your hand"? "Where do you store it"? "How do you deploy it"? "Why does it cost what it does? "How does it compare to weapon mounted light"? and more.

You'll note I signed in with my "real" name. Please be honest with your questions. I will be with my answers.

Please also note, unsubstantiated opinions, or "tude" will not be received well and probably not responded to.

All the best guys,

Clyde

Clyde Caceres
President
First-Light USA
www.first-light-usa.com

[email protected]

 

[Retinator]

I don't mean to bash the light, but it looks like it was designed by a contortionist.

Looks very awkward, especially for those tense situations.

 

[Lightraven]

Mr. Caceres, thanks for dropping in. I respect that.

I thought a while ago that a hand mounted light would be quite useful for my purposes. It wasn't long after that the Liberator was created. Wow, great minds really do think alike. For whatever reason, I didn't pick one up--probably because my desire for maximum brightness tends to trump all other factors. Other people have different priorities.

On reading this thread, I thought, "That thing really looks useful." I had just made a series of arrests in very dark conditions, and used various techniques to see while having my hands free. In one case, handcuffing meant laying the flashlight on the ground aimed at the suspect. In another, the vehicle was aimed at the suspects, with headlights and alley lights used. In a third, night vision goggles were worn.

The trickiest situation for me is how to stop a runner in the dark. You cannot run safely in deep darkness without seeing your way, you cannot strike a suspect with a flashlight, and doing a takedown with one hand (with the other holding a flashlight) is probably not going to be effective on someone determined to get away. A headlamp is not tactically correct. Night vision goggles focused at infinity are blurry at arm's length. This is the situation in which the Liberator concept would be most valuable, for my purposes, I think.

I will give the Seoul/Cree version a look. The price is doable for me, but I suspect it would deter most of my coworkers who I very rarely see carrying any light costing more than $150. Enlisted Guard soldiers and NCO's won't even spend $50 from what I can see.

Good luck with your product.

 

[ClydeCaceres]

I sure didn't mean to bring the thread to a screeching halt. As I mentioned, CPF is an excellent source of information from very informed folks. I appreciate that a lot. It also, to no small measure, helps our company and the industry immensely.

To Lightraven, we work with LE and Military guys a ton. The US Army has taken a special interest in our "newest" product and LE guys that "use" our Liberator Tactical lights are most often overwhelmed by their increased capabilities. The only real stumbling blocks we seem to encounter are people who don't test validly or those who don't take a moment to figure things out.

I liken the transition to Liberator to switching duty holsters. Retention and access features differ greatly between brands and models. Not being able to figure out a new holster is not usually a fault of the holster but a training and transition issue of the operator.

You hit it right on the head regarding the cumbersome nature of having a light "in" your hand while: shooting, changing magazines, dealing with malfunctions, climbing a wall, opening a door, cuffing, etc, etc. The paradigm adjustment for First Light Liberator is that you "wear" the light rather than carry. So our flash light is staged in ready mode when ever you "perceive" the need....ie. exiting your squad car or entering a building. Rather than passively having your conventional light "holstered", then reacting to need, this light can be staged for ready by being ON your hand. Then when the time comes to use your hands.....for almost any reason....your hands are free.

There is also a strong point of discussion to be had on when and where Weapon Mounted Lights are appropriate.

These are probably conversations best held off the forum line. I'd be happy to continue on my company email.

 

[EVOeight]

I personally think any new innovations in flashlight technology is great! You have a new product that will be an improvement over what is currently available for certain people. It may be more of a "niche" item at first, but who knows what it could lead to. Maybe you could actually incorporate a flashlight with fingerless glove? Make it small enough to just wear the whole time you are on duty. Small, low profile emitter(s) on the back of the hand, a couple of RCR2's, small built-in switch in the palm. Who knows. Anyway, I applaud your innovation!

 

[mohr]

hi,
firstlight usa is a company that really listens to the input from endusers.
the new liberator strobe version has all the little and big upgrades you need (strobe mode, P4 SSC led - better runtime - greater output.....) its a great light not only for law enforcement. its a great light for walking your dog, for hunting purpose and other.
maybe clyde can send a test and evaluation sample to one of the cpf review guys. a review thread with pictures and exact data (runtime, brightness...) would be great. or maybe someone in USA can organize a passaround.
mohr
p.s. the light is made in the usa and used by US military, police and border patrol (do a google search and you will find information about the USBP deal ;-)).