flashlights used in conjunction with handguns

[greenLED]

I can't think of a better combination of hobbies: lights and guns!

Knowing a fair amount of you guys are also into guns and carry on a daily basis, I'd like to pick your collective knowledge on some questions that recently crept into my mind:

1. Those of you carrying handguns on a daily basis, which lights do you use? (and what's your backup?)
2. What would be the most important factors determining your choice of light? (size, brightness, easy of grip/manipulation...)
3. What's your opinion about LED vs incan as a companion to your handgun?
4. For the above 2, I'm just interested in the rationale of your choice, not in finding the "best".
5. What would be the largest light you'd be willing to carry/use and why?
6. How much do you feel is "too much" light for your handgun light?
7. Which flashlight techniques do you prefer?
8. Which ones give you the most trouble and why? Any advise on how to overcome these (other than practice x 100 times)?

:thanks:

 

[Willabbott]

Well since you know me, I'm sure you know most of the answer to this But for the rest, beware long reply incoming....



1. Those of you carrying handguns on a daily basis, which lights do you use? (and what's your backup?)

Hmm, well I carry a variety, but I usually carry something along the lines of my Luxeon L1, 6P/G2 (either incan or with P60Led), and E2W (though not lately as it's getting too worn for my liking), or a Kroma or 2. Try to carry a minimum of 2 in that category which serve as primary and backup... then at least 2-3 small lights (photon, Jetbeam Mk2, L0P) in other pockets as "utility" or tertiary, quaternary, quinary lights.


2. What would be the most important factors determining your choice of light? (size, brightness, easy of grip/manipulation...)

Hmm, I suppose personal preference... I tend to not have a preference on switches to much, but do prefer traditional momentary, or forward clickies that look like traditional momentary. Needs to be around 60-100lumens, have the typical surefire or slightly tighter type beam, with enough usable spill, Usually 2 - 123 Size of light, as longer is a pain, and so can be shorter. I tend to like traditional style lights, E2E/D, 6P, straight bodies, though I don't mind things like Gladius/6Z


3. What's your opinion about LED vs incan as a companion to your handgun?

I don't fully buy into the Incan is best crowd... I do try and carry at least 1 incan, however the LEDs are doing pretty good... my independent testing has shown to me, that the incan may light up a greater distance than an equally bright LED, but the difference is negligible. I've never had much issue with fog/smoke, etc. I utilize both kinds, though the number of LED's is starting to surpass the Incans (time to go buy an M3/M4 I guess) My Weapons mounted lights (used in the woods, and on long gun) are LED only


4. For the above 2, I'm just interested in the rationale of your choice, not in finding the "best".

Umm, because everything I carry has proven itself to me to work, and do the job I need it to do, They all seem to illuminate the area and distance needed


5. What would be the largest light you'd be willing to carry/use and why?

Probably a 9P size... larger than that seems to become too large and bulky to comfortably carry... but it depends on what I'm doing... if I were out in the woods, I'd try and carry something Maglight size, say ROP, M4, or SL20X. When I worked security I used an Surefire 8X with an SL20X for a big light, worked great.


6. How much do you feel is "too much" light for your handgun light?

Oh, anything over about 100 Surefire Lumens tends to be borderline too bright for working in an average environment (room clearing, city environments) Anything more outdoorsy, long range, or something more like security, I'd say something in the 80 lumen range coupled with a larger 200-300lumen would serve me pretty well... pretty hard to justify shooting at a threat 25+ yards away in daytime, let alone at night.


7. Which flashlight techniques do you prefer?

Whatever one works I tend to utilize Harries and Side by Side the most, with preference towards the Harries


8. Which ones give you the most trouble and why? Any advise on how to overcome these (other than practice x 100 times)?

Trick Question, u know better than that, None of em For me sheer repetition made them all second nature... the side by sides probably were among the worst to learn as it just takes time to get used to aligning the light properly

 

[GBone]

I carry a firearm 24/7... For the record I am not a law enforcement officer, military or government employee, simply a prepared citizen.


1. At work my main light is a Novatak 120T (due to its small size and high output). It is backed up by a Fenix L0D CE in my pocket and several other lights in my briefcase and automobile. Outside of work my main light is often a Gladius (with Seoul upgrade) or at times SF E2d. Backup is SF L1 Cree and Fenix P1D Q5 in my pocket. Again multiple other lights not too far away.
2. Major factors for work are small size with high output, again not LE so I need to be low key. Outside of work size is less of a factor, so I lean towards function, versatility, durability and of course output. I much prefer the Gladius for shooting techniques over any of the above mentioned lights.
3. My first choice is incan with a firearm, but as you can see most times a I carry an LED. At work because of size and on my own time it is because I prefer the grip.
4. The reason I prefer incan with a firearm is in my opinion it produces a more natural color and for me I feel that aids in target ID in low light situations.
5. Largest light, interesting question... The largest I have carried for any length of time is a SF M6, but it wasn't very convenient. Some would say the Gladius is a bit large for EDC, but the trade off is worth it for me because of its UI and ease of grip while shooting.
6. "Too much" meaning to bright? If that is what you mean that I would say it would depend on your surroundings. At times I choose to EDC a certain light based on where I intended on being that day. For instance, indoors 65 to 150 lumens is more than enough IMO. However, outdoors or large arenas and open areas is a differnt story, 200 lumens would be the minimum to me, that is where a SF C3 or larger comes into play.
7. Forgive me for not knowing all the proper names, however I find the Surefire and similar techniques work the best for me.
8. Again, I don't know the names for many techniques, but I can tell you that I simply stay away from the ones that don't work for me. The last thing I want to be doing is fumbling around with my light or pistol in my greatest time of need. I will say I agree with your practice statement, as some of us know, one can never have even practice when it comes to life saving events.

Thanks for this post, it was nice to get my brain thinking down this path, it has been awhile. :thanks:

 

[tekguy]

first of all i feel this is a great topic and you are absolutely correct about a handgun and a light go hand and hand because you cant shoot or defend against what you cant see.
to answer your questions the best way possible i will use the format your questions were asked in.

1. I use a surefire L5 as a primary light for edc directly in front of the holster. Occasionally i do carry a SF m4 on my weak side when the detail calls for it "but" that is the rare exception to the normal. as a backup a SF L1 is normally behind the holster in a nylon case (it is rarely deployed

2. to me the most important factors in choosing a light for this type of use is
a. fail safe way to grip the light ability to tactically deploy the light to light an area and to automatically be in a guarded offensive position to either use the light as a close quarter impact weapon or to automatically be in a sf/ rogers position to light up and take control of a situation.
b. size: a light that fits comfortably in your hand and is able to activated with a thumb. also the ability to losely grip the light while changing mags or clearing jams without droping the light. ( no more than 6.5 inches)

3. for 99% of situations a high powered led is more than enough for the average situation you would be in such as clearing a room or lighting up a small alley. i have never been in a situation where i needed more 100+ lumens of the L5. the L5 can light up a 50 yard area at night and can disorient people at about half that distance. at more than 50 yards you have other options than to use a firearm (like running to a safe spot and calling for assistance). at 50 yards a judge probably is not gonna rule self defense for shooting someone at 50+ yards. " i trust my L5 as much as i trust a firearm, infact my L5 has gotten me out of 9/10 of situations where i didnt have to result to unholstering a firearm.

4. led is as bright incandesent with twice the runtime. leds dont burn out. i trust my L5 with my life.

5. Size and weight are the biggest factor in a light. it wouldent be practical to cary a sl20 x walking down the street.( you would be suspicius to people) and it is impractical because a small combat light is more than enough to A. light up a medium sized area B. use in conjunction with a firearm C. use as a disorienting device or if nessessary use as an impact weapon.

6. as far as brightness anything above 80 lumens should be sufficent, however a light is too big if the light and the weapon cannot be deployed easially into a tactical position. for instance deploying a magcharger with your handgun is not easially done nor is it quick. with a small combat light attached in front of the holster you A.your body and feet are automatically in a tactical position. B.you can then easially sweep a large area C. you are in a position to use the light as a impact weapon. ( a mag charger will not let a person do that withought alot of pratice and even then cannot be done quickly.

7& 8 i use and trust the SF/rogers technique it automatically puts a person in a offensive tactical position ( i hope that makes sense) There is no substitution for pratice ( pratice any technique over 1000 times to program your brain so when a situation catches you by surprise your movements into a tactical position are automatic. Remember " flexibility is power" being able to remain flexible and the ability to deploy and change tactics as conditions change is more import than any tool ( light or firearm)

these are just my oppinions so i hope this helps

 

[DaFABRICATA]

Is this overkill.....

 

[tekguy]

no! its a great topic:twothumbs

 

[tekguy]

Just another thought. if concealment is not a big issue y not go for a SL tlr 3 weaponlight in a holster mounted behind the firearm. they claim it can be attached in 3 seconds and it has a laser so you no what your aming at

 

[1wrx7]

no! its a great topic:twothumbs

There are supposed to be pictures Tim. Where are they?:candle: There they are. Do you have one with the M3 bezel on the M111d?

 

[DaFABRICATA]

Check again.......Your AR looks hilarious with all those lights & the dual drum mag!!:thumbsup:

There are supposed to be pictures Tim. Where are they?:candle:

 

[greenLED]

Is that an M6-enabled weaponslight on your XD?

Thank you everyone for your replies so far.

 

[1wrx7]

Is that an M6-enabled weaponslight on your XD?

Thank you everyone for your replies so far.

It's a SF M111d 3 cell 9v, with a turbohead

 

[DaFABRICATA]

No, it is a Military Handgun Weaponlight (M111D), it uses 3-123 cells for 9volts, and originally came with a standard M3 head that uses the MN10-MN11 bulbs. I am trying to figure out how to make the LM20 work inconjunction with it to have an M6 style light:thumbsup:

I put my modified KT4 with 3 Seouls and 3 McR27s on it.
It will double as my Bikelight. I have to mill an adaptor to make it mount to the handlebars.

It is by far one of the coolest lights I own and just recieved it yesterday. I will be modifying it to use a different switching system(reversable mod) and hopefully turn it into a very user friendly light. I just bought a KL2 for it and will modify that with multi-emmiters.....maybe send it to Milky to have the 7 Rebels and 7 Mcr10 mod done

This thing is HUGE for a handgun light!

Is that an M6-enabled weaponslight on your XD?

Thank you everyone for your replies so far.

 

[greenLED]

This thing is HUGE for a handgun light!

Yeah, definitely not for concealed carry duty. What to you carry on a daily basis?

 

[DaFABRICATA]

I don't carry anything but a CKRT M16 knife and an E1L.
I don't have my CCW. I live in a quite little town and have only once felt I may have to use a weapon to protect myself.

I normally have the Streamlight TLR-2 on the XD for around the house.
I think the L4 is a great room clearing light.....however I use my modded KL4 as my primary flood light to see EVERYTHING! I have tried using different lights with the Rogers type grip and after getting the TLR-2 I really like having the other hand free for reloading or whatever. It has tunred off from the recoil of the gun, but its only a finger-tip away to turn back on.
The M111D is a great light for a combat situation where increased throw is a must. The ability to swap between incandecents and LEDs make it a great alternative to the TLR-2 or X200/300 series lights.
Provided the hot-spot is not too intense, I don't have a light that I would consider "too much light". I could see the usefullness of a 2-stage light for helping to navigate without drawing attention to yourself.


WE NEED SOME MORE PICS PEOPLE!!!!!

 

[angelofwar]

I use the one on the left as my primary weapon light...It's an Insight Technology M-4 mounted on a S&W .40 GVE...I prefer to have my light attached to the weapon...with a knife or can of mace in the other hand...and a 6-P with a P-61 readily available incase the M-4 fails me...or a 4-D Mag...Just in Case ) Anything over 80 Lumens...that's the lowest I'll go for a weapon light when it comes to home defense!!!

 

[flash_bang]

speaking of "programming your brain" I had a weird dream last night. And it was set in the dark with a deer/alien crossbread thing, and in the dream I reached for my light from my holster. Pretty flipping weird. Anyways, I've also been known to reach for the light in my holster when I need to look under the desk, but I forget that it's not there when I'm wearing PJ's…
Anywho, just makes me happy knowing I'm so used to doing that kind of stuff.
HAGO,
Flash

 

[Monocrom]

I have tried using different lights with the Rogers type grip and after getting the TLR-2 I really like having the other hand free for reloading or whatever. It has turned off from the recoil of the gun, but its only a finger-tip away to turn back on.

That's a bit disappointing to hear.

Does it turn off by itself often, or just a rare occurance?

 

[DaFABRICATA]

I have'nt done a lot of shooting with it on. Mine might just have a looser switch. I'm gonna get the optional tailcap for it.

 

[Zenster]

I'm a CCW carrier, but I have to say that I rarely allow myself to get into situations where I would need a light with only one exception.

My business is burgled rarely, but occasionally, so if the police are called but leave the scene before I can get there believing that there wasn't an entry, I'll go in an check out the (3) buildings with a Colt Commander in one hand and now my Tiablo A9s in the other.
I don't like to attach a light directly to the weapon for fear of it lighting me up as a target.

So while I like the gung-ho effect of weapons lights, I'm not a fan of using them.
I will add that I'll soon have an AE Xenide 25w which is what I will use in the future to clear an area, mainly to it's instant ability to blind anything that looks in it's direction.

 

[Robocop]

Hey there Green....good to hear from you again and I will give what I can to this thread.....thanks for the invite as well.

#1. I carry an H&K USP-40 on duty as well as a Kel-Tec .32 for a back up. My main light is a Wolf-Eyes Raider and full time back up is the trusty TW4 using R123 & VG1 body. Off duty it is usually the smaller Kel-Tec with my modded L1P or E1E with lumens factory lamp.

#2. My most important factor for light choice on duty is reliability first. It simply must work everytime I need it to do so. The second factor is ease of use. Click for on and click for off simple.....no multi modes or strobe just plain old reliable light everytime. Of course output is important however with todays choices in simple duty lights most of them are more than enough anyway.

#3. I recently blew a bulb while performing a qualification course and was using the high power 13v Wolf-Eyes set up. The cause was unknown however this was early on in the 13v product line and my batteries were freshly charged so who knows....never had a problem since Mike sent me some newer style 13v lamps. Regardless I had to finish the course with my TW4 as a back up. The course was designed to be a target recognition and used colored squares and pop up targets. I did finish however did find it harder to do so with all the different colors, much smoke and haze in the air, and the glare from a foggy night environment.

The luxeon worked in a pinch however simply put the incandescent was better in a true combat situation. Since then I have tested Peaks new First Responder and have to say as far as sheer output goes that light is equal to any incandescent I have used. I honestly believe in less than a year the newer emitters may be able to equal incandescents on tint as well. For now I prefer incan over lux as a main light for small changes in color and even greater detail. I do use my Peak often and it amazes me especially with the Seoul emitters....they are a good tint and crazy bright and yes "almost" as nice as the Raider for patrol.

#4. I really do want the luxeons to improve if for nothing else better reliability. Honestly I could carry my First Responder by Peak and be happy however I do need the color rendition of the incandescent. In 10 years of experience I have found the biggest weak spot of luxeons to be not really tint as much as ambient light. For most patrol officers in large cities there is usually a good deal of ambient light. My incan deals with this problem nicely and I have found even the best luxeons to kind of fade out with surrounding ambient lighting.

#5. For me the largest light would be a 4-123 cell size at maximum and if at all possible I like to keep it around 3-123 or 2 of the 150A such as my Raider. This is simply the best size to output ratio I have found and fits a duty belt nicely. With an officers equipment always increasing space on a standard duty belt is limited. As far as off duty carry goes I will often go for my E1E as the largest and usually like to stay smaller if possible such as my L1P or trusty old Ultra-G.

#6. In my case and from experience during a true combat scenario there is no such thing as too much light. I will hope for as much light from a package that I can safely manipulate while shooting. I would love to have the amount of light from a HID searchlight however it would not be practical to hold while trying to line up a target. Now while approaching a vehicle full of robbery suspects I also like to have as much light as possible in my free hand first to illuminate the ENTIRE inside for a visual of everyones movement and also for a blinding effect. The only time I have had too much light was while searching a vehicles interior after the suspects are secure. This is where a smaller light such as the Inova X5 is perfect as it does not create a wash out effect and possibly allowing me to miss small evidence such as a crack pipe or other drugs.

#7. I always like the light to be held in an over under type manner with my strong hand resting on top of my weak hand wrist. The light is held slightly under and to the right of my weapon. Imagine placing the backs of your fist together with the weak hand turned slightly upwards so the strong hand rests in the groove or angle between the back of the fist and top of the wrist of your weak hand holding the light. I have also learned to use light management while searching a dangerous area and constantly toggle the light on and off to prevent the enemy from obtaining a fixed location on me.

Recently I had a test course designed to try different techniques if a light failed. I was amazed to find what a good shooter can do with limited light. I learned to get a basic sight picture and fire the first shot and quickly line up my weapon using nothing but the light from my muzzle flash. It is hard and goes against everything we have been taught however with practice it can work well enough to get some rounds off quickly if needed.

#8. The hardest thing I have found with the use of a light and a weapon at night is the earlier mentioned technique of turning your light off and on quickly while searching a building. It is a good thing to learn as a light will give your position away quickly. As good of a method it is it plays hell with your night vision or adapted eyes. I found that to overcome it is impossible however to minimize it I try to use the spill light more than the hot spot. Yes this is dangerous as again I want to light up my target however if forced to use the toggle method I would rather have better adapted eyes and risk seeing a target a little slower than to see the target faster and have my eyes not adapted to react.

Hope this helps and understand that if it is for civilian carry you will most likely not be forced to search a very dark building or even approach a vehicle in some dark alley. You will most likely use it in your home for protection or some other environment that requires quick action with little time to produce a light anyway. This is why I do not advise the use of a weapon mounted light to civilians. They are large and need practice to use correctly and make it very hard to conceal a weapon in plain clothes. The whole purpose of civilian carry is stealth as you really do not wish anyone to know you are even carrying. Honestly for civilian usage a light should be your last concern and keep practice and good technique as first priority.

Good luck GreenLed and keep us posted as to your results.