Geek Girl at gunpoint at logan.

[Groundhog66]

Empath, I have to get your opinion on this. Do you think all the thousands of people around the world that are killed by freaks with explosives on their person actually KNEW it was going to happen.....Of course not. That's why just because someone is NOT acting in a threatning manner, does NOT mean they do not have BAD intentions. We know our society has changed, and as far as I am concerned we have good reason. Our borders should have more restrictions, as well as MUCH tighter security.....but that is another thread topic I guess.

An to anyone who feels that our Country does not give us enough freedom, your desired freedom is just an airfare away.

 

[jtr1962]

I personally think the airport security people watch too many movies where the explosive device always has all sorts of blinking lights (and the gratuitous countdown timer). I would think someone intent on just blowing themselves up, while taking as many people with them as they can, would totally blend in until it was too late.

And that circuit board looks like something a third grader would do. Given where this girl is going to school, I would be embarrassed to display something like that if I were her.

If the authorities didn't come within a hair's breath of using deadly force (and adding another Darwin award winner to the list in the process) this incident would almost be laughable. As it stands it frightens me that a momentary lapse of common sense by an ordinary citizen can nearly result in the use of deadly force. Too many charged with protecting us are on a hair trigger these days. I see nothing good coming from that.

 

[Samuel]

Too many charged with protecting us are on a hair trigger these days. I see nothing good coming from that.

Easy to say when you're not the one doing the protecting...

 

[Groundhog66]

Easy to say when you're not the one doing the protecting...

+1 on THAT

 

[Lightraven]

Good judgment is the most important quality for anybody that is expected to arrest people at gunpoint. You make the wrong decision, and things go sideways. Give the people with good judgment lots of training and education, and they will figure things out.

One way to handle a situation like this in the U.S.,
"Excuse me, miss? What exactly is that thing on your shirt?"
"A circuit board with LEDs connected to a battery."
"I need to see that for a second."
"Sure."
"Why are you wearing this?"
"I can do anything I want. It's a free country."
"Well, some people might think you are wearing a bomb in an airport. That would seem to be your motive. Perhaps a 'statement' or practical joke or test of security to document on a blog or Youtube. The airlines are under no obligation to let you on an airplane wearing that. If you don't want to miss your flight, you should consider putting that thing where people won't see it."
"Are you arresting me? I haven't broken any laws!"
"You aren't under arrest, but since you won't be getting on any airplanes wearing that, you won't be allowed through security. If your intent is to scare people, you will be removed for trespassing and disorderly conduct. Your choice."

I've done airport details and arrested people there. There was a complaint phoned in to my supervisor while I brought the arrestee back to the station. After explaining my actions, the supervisors realized my conduct was low-key (no guns drawn, loud voices or even handcuffs), professional and absolutely correct, and the complainer (a ticket counter employee) had lied to airport police to get me in trouble. Simultaneously, my coworker was arresting (using yelling and physical force), a provacateur with a video camera that sued him for $2 million and settled the suit for 6 figures.

Finally, I was doing the Firearms Simulator during my qualification last year and one scenario had a guy in front of a school bus wearing a bunch of dynamite sticks and holding a button connected by a wire to the sticks. He is yelling about not wanting to go on because his girlfriend dumped him, etc. I'm standing there, gun aimed, when BOOM! He blows us all up while I vainly shoot my gun too late. I muttered, "I am the first U.S. law enforcement officer to be killed by a suicide bomber." Training us to shoot anybody who claims to have (or appears to have) a bomb has some significant repercussions, until we start seeing real suicide bombers in the U.S.

 

[Groundhog66]

Good judgment is the most important quality for anybody that is expected to arrest people at gunpoint. You make the wrong decision, and things go sideways. Give the people with good judgment lots of training and education, and they will figure things out.

One way to handle a situation like this in the U.S.,
"Excuse me, miss? What exactly is that thing on your shirt?"


BOOOM



Or....I guess there is a chance it would end up like THAT??

 

[Empath]

Your scenario might be more valid, Lightraven, except that she wasn't that involved with the airport. She was apparently only waiting for someone arriving on a flight. She apparently entered only briefly to ask information, and then left. She was approached by agents outside.

Again, the events according to the Associated Press:

A Massachusetts Port Authority staffer manning an information booth in the terminal became suspicious when Simpson — wearing the device — approached to ask about an incoming flight, Pare said. Simpson then walked outside, and the staffer notified a nearby trooper.

The trooper, joined by others with submachine guns, confronted her in front of the terminal.

"She was immediately told to stop, to raise her hands and not to make any movement, so we could observe all her movements to see if she was trying to trip any type of device," Pare said. "Had she not followed the protocol, we might have used deadly force."

He added, "She's lucky to be in a cell as opposed to the morgue."

 

[PhotonWrangler]

On the other hand, the people who breathlessly reported that it was a fake bomb owe the world an apology and a retraction.

 

[Tubor]

Empath, I have to get your opinion on this. Do you think all the thousands of people around the world that are killed by freaks with explosives on their person actually KNEW it was going to happen.....Of course not. That's why just because someone is NOT acting in a threatning manner, does NOT mean they do not have BAD intentions. We know our society has changed, and as far as I am concerned we have good reason. Our borders should have more restrictions, as well as MUCH tighter security.....but that is another thread topic I guess.

An to anyone who feels that our Country does not give us enough freedom, your desired freedom is just an airfare away.

Exactly - they might have a bomb or they might not have a bomb - anyone might - but law enforcement and security are paid to keep innocent people safe not go around using "lethal force" - that involves risk. Risk is part of the job and mistakes will be made but better that than endless war, no rights for anyone, thought police, the end of civilization, etc.

 

[Illum]

tell that to anyone who works for security and owns an xray machine that a breadboard+wires+ICs+LED assembly isn't a bomb and he wouldn't believe you until you or him took it apart.

before 9/11 bringing DIY projects into public domain or on flights aren't uncommon...why now? Its unnatural for a country to be over reactive towards the little things, but apparently its Natural in the US.

I carried EMPTY PC boards on a flight once...talk about being flamed:shakehead
you wonder if they really could tell what an IED is and whats not, they are not all that hard to make, solid or non-solid alike

 

[LuxLuthor]

Empath, most people have heard by now that if you even say the word "bomb" in an airport, you can be detained and likely arrested. She was indeed involved in the airport, by virtue of entering it even if briefly.

You cannot expect a rent-a-cop security guard she approached for flight arrival information under orange security level to be able to know "Jack Squat" about what a circuit board, with wires going to a battery, and having what may have looked to be plastic explosive (we don't know where it was displayed initially)...or if she was testing security for an additional more aggressive attack.

I mean what intelligent person walks into an airport making sure they had playdo included in a shirt display with blinking lights that was obviously intended to appear superficially as a bomb? This was also a black sweatshirt that could have been covering a larger set of body explosive straps. I would have had no problem if they had shot the girl first, and sorted it out later. How do you suppose suicide bombers in Israel would be treated in a similar circumstance?

As it is now, the worthless lawyers will try and tear apart the security officials for doing what they have been trained to do. Obviously, America needs another major terrorist attack before it begins to realize how serious these issues really are. I'm sure it is coming when I see reactions like this to our police trying to protect us.

 

[Samuel]

- but law enforcement and security are paid to keep innocent people safe not go around using "lethal force" - that involves risk. Risk is part of the job and mistakes will be made but better that than endless war, no rights for anyone, thought police, the end of civilization, etc.

Wrong. We are paid to try to maintain some semblance of order (vs anarchy) in society. And sometimes, YES, that means using "lethal force"! It shows much ignorance to state or believe that LE should not use "lethal force" or that LE work here in the US can be safely done without the option of "lethal force". Yes, LE/public safety work can be risky BUT I'm not paid to take a bullet or to be blown up or otherwise needlessly injured.

 

[:)>]

I am always a bit amazed when people blame the security guards or law enforcement when they respond to stunts like this. I am amazed and disappointed.

I have a feeling that the same people that think that the security guards overreacted would be blaming them for not doing enough if this girl really was wearing a bomb and detonated it.

 

[Sinjz]

It's like screaming "fire" in a crowded theather. You're stupid if you do it because people WILL react and injuries may occur. If someone yelled fire in a theather I'm in, I'm getting up and heading toward the exit doors. I'm not waiting to smell smoke, I'm not waiting to feel heat. I'm walking and if I have to step on some toes of those who aren't moving, so be it. She was stupid for wearing such a shirt to the airport.

I have a question for all those saying it doesn't look like a bomb. Uhm, what does a bomb need to look like, to be a bomb? :thinking: I figure some explosives, a few wires a detenator and it could look like almost anything. Having wires hanging off a circuit board straped to your chest is an invite for trouble at the airport.

 

[orionlion82]

Boy i can sure start a pooh storm.

im just glad were talking about it now.


heres what i think - if i want to make my own electronic nametag and be sloppy about it - whos gonna stop me? is playdoh illegal? LED's?

two examples:

"officer - its a electronic nametag, thanks for the concern - take a hike -end of discussion"

"officer, im so sorry, its not a bomb please dont shoot me or send me to cuba with the terrorists"

pick the america you want to live in. it is your (our) country, right?

 

[paulr]

I don't understand why the outside of an airport needs more security paranoia than other public areas. Airplanes in flight are enormously vulnerable and so there's a careful security check before you can board one, and the part of the airport where you can get to the planes is separated (by the security checkpoint) from the rest of the airport, so you can't get to the secure part without going through the check. If you're outside, or in the outer lobby, from a security standpoint it's not much different from being in a shopping mall as far as I can tell. Yeah I can imagine someone with that getup having trouble getting through the checkpoint to board an aircraft, but it sounds like she wasn't trying to do that.

 

[gorn]

The ones lacking common sense the most is our airport gestapo.:

Airport gestapo? Wow, talk about an offensive statement. That would probably rate a ban if it wasn't from and administrator who should know better. To compare any American Law Enforcement to the animals that were the gestapo is at best stupid and inflamitory.

Can you identify every bomb by sight? I think not. Would you have the guts to confront someone who was reported to have a suspicious device? Doubtful.

I hope this MIT student isn't as stupid as she seems. It almost appears to be a case of someone wanting media attention.

 

[Tubor]

You cannot expect a rent-a-cop security guard she approached for flight arrival information under oranard, with wires going to a battery, and having what may have looked to be plastic explosive (we don't know where it was displayed initially)...or if she was testing security for an additional more aggressive attack.

I mean what intelligent person walks into an airport making sure they had playdo included in a shirt display with blinking lights that was obviously intended to appear superficially as a bomb? This was also a black sweatshirt that could have been covering a larger set of body explosive straps. I would have had no problem if they had shot the girl first, and sorted it out later. How do you suppose suicide bombers in Israel would be treated in a similar circumstance?
>>>

Ahem, it "obviously was intended to look like a bomb", she was "testing security for an attack" - I don't think so, it's possible - like it's possible we all live in a giant alien fish tank - but pretty unlikely don't you think?? I also think your indifference to having people executed for what was at worst a joke in bad taste and was probably a "oops shouldn't have worn that tea-shirt but if I go home and change it I'll probably miss meeting up with PERSON A at the airport" moment shows what sort of a person you are. Yes innocent people have died in Israel, and in the US and in the UK I might add, quite a few places actually but one innocent death doesn't justify another. Or maybe it does if your sensibilities have been offended?

 

[Lightraven]

Historically, airport lobbies are a target for terrorists. Los Angeles International was targetted for bombing by Ahmed Ressam, who was intercepted by U.S. Customs crossing the Canadian border with a trunk full of explosives. A crazy wannabe terrorist opened fire with a gun at the El Al ticket counter (killing several, I recall) at Los Angeles International before being shot and killed by El Al security a few years ago. I believe the Athens airport has been targetted by terrorists in the past.

From a security standpoint, having increasing layers of security, multiple perimeters is better than a single perimeter. Also, there is a lot of crime going on at airports besides terrorism, which is the rarest of rare crimes.

 

[Tubor]

Wrong. We are paid to try to maintain some semblance of order (vs anarchy) in society. And sometimes, YES, that means using "lethal force"! It shows much ignorance to state or believe that LE should not use "lethal force" or that LE work here in the US can be safely done without the option of "lethal force". Yes, LE/public safety work can be risky BUT I'm not paid to take a bullet or to be blown up or otherwise needlessly injured.

If you have to protect your own or anothers life then yes of course if necessary. But only as a last resort. Had this woman had a fit or something she could have been killed and her life is as valuable to her and her family as a LE officer's would be to him and his (or hers) family. Maybe a someone should clearly state what is allowed in the airport (ie: no flashing LED circuit boards on your person) so that someone could hand it in outside or something, because as it is not knowing is making the situation dangerous for the absent minded as well as innocent people who could get killed because security guards are looking out for the obvious and then totally panicing when they do feel threatened. Anybody with a level head should have been able to sort out this one without being a hair-trigger away from killing a person proably as innocent, dare I say it, as you. She was outside the airport when she was challenged - whose life was she threatening - was it even necessary to draw a gun?