Geek Girl at gunpoint at logan.

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Groundhog66

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I agree with a lot of what you say, but I can't disagree more strongly with your statement here. We can all disagree and speak our mind and still have a right to live here.


I didn't say that someone does not have the right to live here, I am saying you have a choice. If you feel you rights are being too infringed upon, find somewhere else where you feel more freedom. Hope you now understand my point, thanks.

Tim
 

Phredd

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I didn't say that someone does not have the right to live here, I am saying you have a choice. If you feel you rights are being too infringed upon, find somewhere else where you feel more freedom. Hope you now understand my point, thanks.

I guess I interpret your statement as telling those who disagree that their alternative is to leave, as opposed to speaking out. I'll take you on your word that that's not what you mean to say.
 

Art Vandelay

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I don't think you can just let somebody go after they pull a stunt like that. What if was just a test of the system? What if somebody is looking for weak spots?

I don't think that was the case here based on the news I've read. I bet she has been put under the microscope since then. If something did show up I doubt she would be free now. How was the State Trooper who arrested her supposed to know that at the time?

Remember, the 911 hijackers hijacked planes from this same airport. Better safe than sorry.
 

Empath

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Alright guys..... let's knock it off. You can slam the girl. You can slam the security. You can slam the system, MIT, Boston, the media's take or whatever.

However, don't slam one another. This thread isn't about our member's deficiencies.
 

fieldops

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The problem is that it appears she went in there looking for trouble. If she didn't, then MIT needs to revisit their admission standards concerning stupidity. what was the Playdo for? She didn't look like 3 year old. If it had turned out the shoe bomber had no bomb, I'm sure some would be crying about brutality to a passenger. The problem is, he did have a bomb. If she was not engaged and had a real bomb, people would say those fools at the airport let passengers get blown up. It can be a no win situation.
I say in summary the following opinions:

1. I agree that the airport screeners are not the sharpest tools in the shed.

2. I agree that people have a right to free expression within safe limits

3. Confronting a bomber in a casual calm manner has led to premature detonations as shown by Isreali experience.

I have no idea about the thought processes in this woman, but I'm glad she wasn't hurt. I think old grandad's saying is appropriate here.

If you go out looking for trouble, you will probably find it.
 

Lightraven

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Having talked to a former Air Marshal about the crazy guy that was shot and killed by Air Marshals after claiming to have a bomb and running away, I can say that people who value their lives should never say they have a bomb, act like they have a bomb, or look like they have a bomb.

These guys are not paid to stand around assuming that it's all just a bad joke, mental instability or ironic performance art.
 

acourvil

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The problem is that it appears she went in there looking for trouble. If she didn't, then MIT needs to revisit their admission standards concerning stupidity. what was the Playdo for? She didn't look like 3 year old.

I don't think you know enough for this to be a fair statement. I've spent a fair amount of time with very bright, creative kids. My son is one. I could easily see someone like my son coming up with an electronic art or jewelry project that he thought was cool and not thinking that anyone would consider it threatening in any way. He's done a couple of things that I think fall in the same category as what this girl did. I'm sure he would not do what she did, but only of for one reason: in 2002, when he was 12 or 13, we went on a trip to visit the grandparents and he got searched because he had a home-made power inverter that he was using for his laptop. Picture a bundle of wires going into a metal box next to some laptop batteris, and you probably get the picture of what the TSA scanner was thinking. Thankfully, the calmly took my son aside and asked him quastions about what it was. After 5 minutes of him explaining how he made it and how the circuits worked, they told him he had to put it in checked baggage.

Oh, and I have had silly putty and playdo given to me at corporate team building sessions; apparently there is some research that says squeezing something like that in your hand helps with idea generation or something like that. And I actually had it in my carry-on bag when I went through the airport.

I have no idea about the thought processes in this woman, but I'm glad she wasn't hurt. I think old grandad's saying is appropriate here.

It's hard to say without knowing her, but my guess was that her thought process was "I made this cool thing and it makes me unique." But I think we can all agree that having no one hurt was the right way for this to come out.

The TSA folks and any LEO involved in evaluating something like this have a really tough job. We can only hope that the vast majority of the time they make the right judgements - and maybe cut them some slack in situations where they have to make tough calls.

If you go out looking for trouble, you will probably find it.

And if you assume your conclusions, you will always be right.
 

fieldops

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After all of this, I decided to look into this further, as I know several people who work at the airport. It appears that she was totally clueless as to the public perception of the device. This is despite the fact that she was a very technically savvy student with a bright career ahead. I apologize for making it sound like she was intentionally causing trouble. I now see that she did not intentionally go looking for trouble, but got the same result. A woman at the information counter asked her what the device was. She turned away and did not respond at all. This report by the employee appears to be what triggered the LEO response.

It's a shame that someone so talented knows so little about the real world. This is an airport post 9/11. The same airport where the 9/11 attacks were launched. As I said before, I'm glad she was uninjured. She needs to realize that people who bring objects into an airport that look like bombs can potentially end up dead. Dead people don't have careers.
I'm glad that she will still have hers.
 

acourvil

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It's a shame that someone so talented knows so little about the real world.

Well, that's one of the main reasons that kids go off to college. Most of us had some mis-steps along the way at that age; some just get more attention than others. At least in this case no one was injured and everyone has an opportunity to learn from the situation.
 

LuxLuthor

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Statistically, aren't most of us more likely to be struck by lightning than be affected by an act of terrorism? Compared to the myriad of other possible dangers we face on a daily basis, realistically, terrorism just isn't that much of a threat. Not to say we shouldn't be thinking of making our lives safer in every way possible, but it seems we've blown this way out of proportion to its actual likelihood of happening. I mean, if we were really concerned with safety it would make more sense to declare war on auto accidents wouldn't it?

I'll get back to you after the next attack.

Try to imagine the impact of a dirty nuke, actual nuke, chemical weapon, destroying chemical factories on any US major city. To dismiss this possibility when Al Quaeda has stated such actions as their goals, and after obtaining permission from whatever Iman religious leader to do such attacks, and after numerous terrorist bombings in other countries before and after 9/11, there is much more evidence that some really horrible mass mass mass casualty attacks are coming. The radical Islamic terrorist do not have a goal of "irritating America." They stated goals are to destroy Israel and America. They see us as evil and The Satan...and that was before we invaded Iraq.

Of course a case can be made now that risk from terrorism is overblown. The same minimizing justifications were made during Hitler's public rantings before he started invading.

Thanks for a good post, Acourvil.

Regarding trying to know a little more about her, I ran across this:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/09/23/in_hawaii_sympathy_for_mitstudent/


I expected her to be bright and talented on paper, or she would not be going to MIT from Hawaii. None of that really makes any difference in the few minutes surrounding the event...not even if it was intentional or stupidity.

One item that continues to be left out of the details I have read is where exactly was this Playdo originally, and what color was it? It is pretty obvious as I said earlier that she did not have this in her hands while driving a car, so the idea that she was using it like Silly Putty to excersise her hands is not believable.

She made this to look like a suicide vest, and I am guessing the Playdo was a part of the costume, and she tried to pull it off with her hands once she realized her mistake, and where the police found it once outside.

On a humanistic level, I'm glad she is alive, but I would have had no problem if the officers had reacted with deadly prudence at such a provacative event. I have no question that they would have been supported by most of the public and government if they had shot and killed the girl.
 

blue

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While we can't know her intent, her actions while in the airport are what caused her all this grief... not her seeming ignorance.

The article I saw stated that she approached a counter wearing her shirt while holding what looked to be a lump of putty in her hands, asked about a flight, and when questioned about the circuit board on her chest, walked away without responding. A person had something that, for whatever random reasons, appears to be a bomb trigger and explosive (circuit board and putty) and when asked about it, disengages from a conversation with an airport worker that SHE initiated and walks away without speaking. (red lights should now go off)

Also, I would like to respond to some of the posts above stating that she should have been asked more questions before being detained aggressively. Those types of statements remind me of statements I've heard so often saying that cops shouldn't try to shoot to kill but should shoot the weapon out of a person's hand and thus detain them without lethal ramifications. The odds of doing that are truly low and cause a significant increase in risk to the cops involved. Same rule applies here. Reasonable (in my mind) questions were asked and not answered, deliberately. Asking for a more gentile approach significantly increases risk to those involved in the situation. I would NOT EVER want to be forced to walk up to someone with putty and flashing lights on their chest that has already refused to answer once what it is and ask 'pretty please, is that a bomb?'. I would not ask someone to do that in my place.
 

acourvil

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She made this to look like a suicide vest, and I am guessing the Playdo was a part of the costume, and she tried to pull it off with her hands once she realized her mistake, and where the police found it once outside.

I haven't seen anything that provides any factual basis for the assertion about the intended appearance of her electronic art or your guess about the playdo, and I think there has been enough said about her state of mind to think that neither is credible.
 

Bullzeyebill

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Let's let the court figure out this one. She will get her day in court, and if they had considered her a real threat the DA would have asked for higher bail, or argued against bail. We are spinning our wheels here.

Bill
 

Optik49

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"A Massachusetts Port Authority staffer manning an information booth in the terminal became suspicious when Simpson -- wearing the device -- approached to ask about an incoming flight, Pare said. She did not respond when the employee asked her about the device she was wearing, so the employee repeated the question, police said.

Simpson then said the device was artwork and left the counter and walked around the terminal area, causing some employees to leave the building in fear, police said.

Simpson then walked outside, and the information booth attendant notified a nearby trooper.

The trooper, joined by others with submachine guns, confronted her at a traffic island in front of the terminal.

"She was immediately told to stop, to raise her hands and not to make any movement, so we could observe all her movements to see if she was trying to trip any type of device," Pare said. "Had she not followed the protocol, we might have used deadly force.":xyxgun:


Everyone looks at things differently :caution: but I think the Massachusetts State Police had to handle this as an actual threat (which they did) It's also tacit for terrorist to have someone, do something like this so they can video tape it and study it for a future attack.




Please remember on 8:00 a.m. and 8:15 a.m. Flight 11 and Flight 175 left Logan Airport on September 11, 2007 and were a part of the worst terrorist attact in American history.


:cool:
 

tygger

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I'll get back to you after the next attack.

Try to imagine the impact of a dirty nuke, actual nuke, chemical weapon, destroying chemical factories on any US major city. To dismiss this possibility when Al Quaeda has stated such actions as their goals, and after obtaining permission from whatever Iman religious leader to do such attacks, and after numerous terrorist bombings in other countries before and after 9/11, there is much more evidence that some really horrible mass mass mass casualty attacks are coming. The radical Islamic terrorist do not have a goal of "irritating America." They stated goals are to destroy Israel and America. They see us as evil and The Satan...and that was before we invaded Iraq.

Of course a case can be made now that risk from terrorism is overblown. The same minimizing justifications were made during Hitler's public rantings before he started invading.

Personally I try and base my level of fear, awareness, or preparedness on the likelihood and destructive nature of the event. I also take a bit of comfort in looking to history, considering the US (and the entire world) was in far greater danger of being quite literally destroyed during the height of the cold war in the mid to late 60's than any other time in history and probably any time in the future. The possible actions of a relatively small group of dangerous fanatics doesn't register too high on my fear list. I'm much more worried about earthquakes and rattlesnakes (I hike a lot). Anyway, thats just me. Sorry if I strayed too far from the original topic.
 

acourvil

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O.k., everyone looks at things differently.

She stopped at an information booth and asked about an incoming flight. She was asked about her unusual artwork, which she thought was irrelevant to the question she had asked. When asked again, she answered, but apprarently did not get an answer to her own question. So she left and walked around looking for a way to get the information she was looking for.

That sounds like pretty astounding behavior. Is that the way it happened? That version is at least as plausible as the alternatives that have been stated.

Did the TSA and law enforcement personnel who were called and told of a possible terrorist attck act improperly? Sounds to me like they did there jobs the best way they could. Did the employee at the information booth use good judgement? It's hard to say without being there, but it seems there is at least some possibility of a lapse. Or maybe it was just a bad confluence of events, and it escalated out of control without anyone really being at fault. Sometimes things just happen the wrong way. If we are lucky, we'll learn enough from this to prevent the same thing from happening again.
 

Art Vandelay

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Remember she is probably 18 or 19. From her perspective 9/11/01 was a long time ago. She would have been 12 or 13 then. She may not have thought about how she was walking into the airport where the hijacked planes departed.

I bet the people working in the airport had 9/11 in the back of their minds since it was still close to the anniversary. Some of the people working in the airport may have even been working on 9/11. It was only six years ago, so it's certainly possible.
 
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