Anyone have one? A family member is thinking of getting a permanently installed Generac standby generator that runs off of natural gas to run a gas furnace or the electric central AC unit as needed and to keep the frig running, etc. Their stove and hot water heater are gas and do not need electricity.
Generac generator?
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kerneldrop
Flashlight Enthusiast
IMA SOL MAN
Flashlight Enthusiast
Natural gas can fail due to many, many reasons. Public Works or other utility digger digs down and breaks the pipeline, earthquake shifts the ground and breaks the pipeline, flooding excavates and breaks the pipeline, tornado destroys structures with gas service requiring the line be shut down, and finally, the gas company's system can fail--power to the pumps goes out, or system freezes up like they did during the Texas freeze up of a couple of years ago.
en.wikipedia.org
Onsite propane or diesel would likely be a better fuel for a backup power generator.
2021 Texas power crisis - Wikipedia
Onsite propane or diesel would likely be a better fuel for a backup power generator.
idleprocess
Flashaholic
Depends on however one weighs the frequency/duration/criticality of power outages as well as the peace of mind factor.
A close neighbor has an automatic standby generator (make/model unknown, however it's for sure using NG) that's put in all of about 4 hours' actual service in the 2 years since they had in installed. Sounds like a class 6+ truck idling on the next street from inside my house a few doors down, louder outside. Given that it can run their entire ~3000ft² house with central AC, electric oven, electric dryer, and pool pumps I'd guess that it's in the >20kW range and seeing how they had it installed in the same year as the power crisis suspect they paid north of $20k for the unit, balance-of-system components, installation, permitting.
What I don't know are their needs. They run a business from their home, but given that it's high school tutoring I suspect that's a corner case. They may have critical medical appliances that they don't want to chance to a UPS or Li power station, be intolerant of the delightful summer heat in the region, or just sufficiently value the little bit of normality that an automatic whole-house generator provides.
Myself, I cannot justify that kind of expense for emergency power even when I was working with home with no office to retreat to should power fail (I lost power once in the 2021 crisis and that was due to a local equipment failure resolved within an hour). I opted for some inverter generators in parallel backfeeding my electrical panel. Cost ~$1500 for the entire shebang and I could run for about a week on the 10 gallons of fuel I keep onhand. I expect to need it <10 hours per year and the one outage (brownout actually - very weird) I needed it for so far lasted all of about 90 minutes. The fuel demands for a 240V generator capable of running at least the HVAC (provided I install a soft-start) would be ... formidable.
My folks out in the country experience semi-regular outages and have one inverter generator. Their plan is to rough it - pull appliances, run extension cords - if they experience an intolerably long outage. I suspect that if they have to do this more than once - or for more than a few hours - they'll consider at the very least an inlet and more watts vis-à-vis another generator and a parallel kit or maybe a 240V model (they've got the elbow room for additional fuel and routinely have more onhand than I do).
EDIT 1 : 5 figures money for rarely-used emergency power makes those kWh they do provide in emergencies very expensive - dollars per kWh expensive. Another reason I could not justify that expense was because that same money could fund half or more of a solar + battery bank installation that would at least be a producing asset that pays itself off someday while providing some emergency power capability.
EDIT 2 : Part of the significant cost for automatic backup generators is the assumption that they'll have to cold start everything in the house at once. Inductive loads - especially that HVAC compressor - can have startup watts that are briefly ~8 times its running watts. It's likely to be extremely cost-effective to spend a few hundred dollars on a soft-start mod for the HVAC compressor so you can go with a much smaller generator.
While this is true and worth considering, the power cuts greatly reduced residential demand for gas furnaces such that gas was generally available for anyone could use it provided the local infrastructure was functional.
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BVH
Flashaholic
My sis has their 14KW unit and it has served them well. It's air cooled and noisy even in the enclosure but in their case, it's 125 fee away and behind a couple of walls so they don't hear it in the house.
kerneldrop
Flashlight Enthusiast
we were without electricity for two weeks during that Texas ice storm... the folks with Natty gas generators never missed a beat.
Our water pipes froze up and we were without water, too.
Problem with fueled generators is filling it up during a crisis.
I guess the ultimate prepper would have a diesel, propane, and natty gas.
Those smaller generators just aren't made to run 24/7...that's another benefit to the larger whole-house generator.
Our water pipes froze up and we were without water, too.
Problem with fueled generators is filling it up during a crisis.
I guess the ultimate prepper would have a diesel, propane, and natty gas.
Those smaller generators just aren't made to run 24/7...that's another benefit to the larger whole-house generator.
Thanks for all of the replies. Can't use anything other than natural gas for this. The biggest concern is noise since it would have to be installed on the side of the house behind the AC unit and would be very close to the next door neighbors house as well.
Thanks much RWT! I was thinking 14kW would probably be enough to run the AC and the frig, along with a few lights and small appliances (guessing that a smaller generator would be a little quieter too?). But a 22kW could probably power most homes with everything running at the same time!
idleprocess
Flashaholic
I gather mufflers can be had (or fashioned) and sound-deadening secondary enclosures procured if one desires.
The neighbor's unit isn't intolerable inside my own house, although I'm not directly adjacent in a neighborhood with ~20' between homes. It is a touch more conspicuous that it would be otherwise when there's a blackout.
jtr1962
Flashaholic
I thought about this briefly after Sandy but came to the conclusion the cost/benefit ratio wasn't favorable. Power outages lasting more than a few seconds are rare. Most of the longer ones are due to tree limbs. They're typically fixed within hours. Even those happen very rarely, maybe once every few years on average. The really long power outages due to acts of nature are less than once per decade.
Generac's smallest generator is 8.5kW. Even that far exceeds our needs, which are typically well under 1 kW. They peak at well under 3 kW even on hot summer days.
Generac's smallest generator is 8.5kW. Even that far exceeds our needs, which are typically well under 1 kW. They peak at well under 3 kW even on hot summer days.
We had a 60kW Onan genset. Very nice, but honestly, it was very much overkill. Worse, because of its large size, the expense of running it and keeping it going (because a mechanic has to drive out to us to work on it), I'm not so sure it's worth it. We only have propane available and a large generator guzzles through that propane faster than (insert your favourite off-color analogy here). As such, we'd have to shut it down somewhat often otherwise we'd run out of propane. Good luck getting a propane delivery during / after a disaster. Yes, I speak from experience. It was 3 weeks before our next propane delivery. Fortunately power was back in 5 days for that one.
Having been through many hurricanes, here's what I've been recommending:
1) Remember: You're building a life raft, not an entire cruise ship here. You want it to power what you actually need. Yes, our 60kW genset powered everything, including landscape lighting and fountains...but also would only run for 3-4 days if left on 24/7 at a considerable expense. Realistically, some (not full) climate control, refrigeration, lighting, and some electronics is all that's needed.
2) Get an inverter mini-split heat pump, 120v. As to where this ends up depends on your home's layout. I've been having people put them in their bedrooms, but these are usually newer homes with large master bedrooms.
3) Get a pair of Honda/Yamaha inverter generators and twin them. This allows you to have redundancy if one decides to crap out in an emergency, the extra capacity when you need it, and fuel efficiency by only running 1 at a time if you don't need all of the capacity. The Honda/Yamaha inverter generators are also very quiet. You can have a full conversation standing in front of one without a problem. They also do make models with electric/remote starting.
4) Keep an eye on that fridge when on generator -- don't let it auto-defrost. Why melt the ice you just paid to make?
My "portable" emergency setup is a 6,000BTU window shaker AC and a single Honda EU2000. I only use about 1.5-2 gallons/day with this setup, including powering a full-size fridge, electronics, fans, etc. Compare this to the typical 5,000-10,000 watt generators which can drink that much in an hour. The EU2000 is now 18 years old and other than changing the oil, I've never done any maintenance on it. I probably should... then again, I say that every year.
Having been through many hurricanes, here's what I've been recommending:
1) Remember: You're building a life raft, not an entire cruise ship here. You want it to power what you actually need. Yes, our 60kW genset powered everything, including landscape lighting and fountains...but also would only run for 3-4 days if left on 24/7 at a considerable expense. Realistically, some (not full) climate control, refrigeration, lighting, and some electronics is all that's needed.
2) Get an inverter mini-split heat pump, 120v. As to where this ends up depends on your home's layout. I've been having people put them in their bedrooms, but these are usually newer homes with large master bedrooms.
3) Get a pair of Honda/Yamaha inverter generators and twin them. This allows you to have redundancy if one decides to crap out in an emergency, the extra capacity when you need it, and fuel efficiency by only running 1 at a time if you don't need all of the capacity. The Honda/Yamaha inverter generators are also very quiet. You can have a full conversation standing in front of one without a problem. They also do make models with electric/remote starting.
4) Keep an eye on that fridge when on generator -- don't let it auto-defrost. Why melt the ice you just paid to make?
My "portable" emergency setup is a 6,000BTU window shaker AC and a single Honda EU2000. I only use about 1.5-2 gallons/day with this setup, including powering a full-size fridge, electronics, fans, etc. Compare this to the typical 5,000-10,000 watt generators which can drink that much in an hour. The EU2000 is now 18 years old and other than changing the oil, I've never done any maintenance on it. I probably should... then again, I say that every year.
kerneldrop
Flashlight Enthusiast
We were thinking of doing the same the double x but really and truely it just wouldn't get used often enough to justify the cost.
The noise is a concern. I can tell when my power is out when I arrive home because the neighbor's who has hers on the other side of the house from me is so loud. Between the engine and the "whirring" sound it's something I feel would bother others around me vs my 64db Honda generator that purrs like a kitten.
I miss the days in summer when the power went out and the only sounds were natural. Now it's "bwaaaaaaahhhhhh" or "shpirrrrrrrrrr" from all those generators and Generacs.
The noise is a concern. I can tell when my power is out when I arrive home because the neighbor's who has hers on the other side of the house from me is so loud. Between the engine and the "whirring" sound it's something I feel would bother others around me vs my 64db Honda generator that purrs like a kitten.
I miss the days in summer when the power went out and the only sounds were natural. Now it's "bwaaaaaaahhhhhh" or "shpirrrrrrrrrr" from all those generators and Generacs.
Seeker 77
Newly Enlightened
I have one and like it a lot. My wife was skeptical, until the first long outage.
It's loud. I've heard Kohlers are quieter but I don't know by how much.
I'd like to bury a propane tank in the backyard as an additional backup but I don't think I'll get my wife's approval on that. At least not yet. It took 10 years to get the generator.
When I was riding out a hurricane away from home with the portable setup, I just listened for the Honda EU2000's RPMs to crank up. IIRC the defrost heater in a fridge is around 600w, so you'll definitely hear an inverter generator spin up for it. We only had to run the fridge for a few hours a day to keep it cold. I always use a Kill-a-watt meter when on generator.
I never really thought about doing this with my home, but I don't see why you couldn't disconnect the defrost heater. Depending on the fridge, this could be simply unplugging a connector. On others this could be a real pain.
