HDS Systems #23

Interesting points. If you've already invested in the AA format then that will obviously influence your preferences. In my house, AA is the antithesis of standardized. We have exactly 2 devices that use AA. One is a TV remote and the other is a wireless keyboard. Everything else is either AAA, CR123/16340/18350 (they're all similar enough for our purposes here), a few 18650, and the rest are dedicated battery packs that aren't any of those things. I suppose the Streamlight Protac 1L-1AA that's around here somewhere will technically run AAs, but I've never done that and don't intend to since I don't stock that battery size.

If you want easy and reliable, primaries are still the gold standard, regardless of what sort of waste they are perceived to represent. You don't need to think about them. They work when it's cold, they work when it's hot. They work after years (and years and years) in a drawer. They work in single- and multi-cell devices. There is also very little chance I'm putting a rechargeable anything in a WML any time soon, so a stock of CR123 primaries is always on hand for that application.

Have you looked at Malkoff's AA MDC light? If I was shopping for a zombie light that could run AAs, I don't know if I'd find anything better than that.
 
Interesting points. If you've already invested in the AA format then that will obviously influence your preferences. In my house, AA is the antithesis of standardized. We have exactly 2 devices that use AA. One is a TV remote and the other is a wireless keyboard. Everything else is either AAA, CR123/16340/18350 (they're all similar enough for our purposes here), a few 18650, and the rest are dedicated battery packs that aren't any of those things. I suppose the Streamlight Protac 1L-1AA that's around here somewhere will technically run AAs, but I've never done that and don't intend to since I don't stock that battery size.

If you want easy and reliable, primaries are still the gold standard, regardless of what sort of waste they are perceived to represent. You don't need to think about them. They work when it's cold, they work when it's hot. They work after years (and years and years) in a drawer. They work in single- and multi-cell devices. There is also very little chance I'm putting a rechargeable anything in a WML any time soon, so a stock of CR123 primaries is always on hand for that application.

Have you looked at Malkoff's AA MDC light? If I was shopping for a zombie light that could run AAs, I don't know if I'd find anything better than that.
We're on opposite ends of the spectrum, for sure. It's actually a bit funny that I'm of the polar opposite viewpoint towards batteries, haha.
Eneloop Master Race, haha.

99% of my devices take either AA or AAA. I don't have anything besides flashlights that take weird sizes, haha. What kind of devices are you using? I'm genuinely curious. Heck, I have an AA Xbox controller.

I disagree on primaries. Lithium primaries are better than alkaline (which leak horribly), but I don't find lithium primaries to be super great. While I know people rave about their hot and cold performance, I find eneloops to be adequate for any temperatures I am going to find myself in. I'm sure there are fringe use cases that might be extremely hot or something where you'd be using a remote device - but I am thinking in terms of using a flashlight. If I am in the area, it's within the usable range of eneloops (which, again, I've had only GREAT experiences with in the dead of winter).

While lithium primaries have a decent shelf life, eneloops are kind of right up there. They hold a charge for years, and if you're in doubt, they're easy enough to recharge every few years. As weird as it sounds, I still meet people that don't realize eneloops were a revolutionization of NiMH cells due to their exceptionally low self-discharge rates.

Performance wise, eneloops run like a top. Let's be honest: CR123 batteries have a terrible output curve. They behave a lot like a higher voltage alkaline; starts high, then tanks fast. Eneloops practically regulate themselves. They can have a flat output curve running direct drive. I think the biggest argument against CR123 batteries are their mediocre performance. Heck, apropos this whole topic is that the HDS lights are limited to 1A of draw due to the hilariously bad performance of CR123 cells.

Multi-cell devices is where I think primaries are most problematic, though. Especially if you've had cells for a number of years, the odds of the voltages being a strong match goes way down. Did someone use one cell briefly, then put it back? Has one discharged faster than another? I think that's where eneloops are great. Recharge them every once in a blue moon if you really want, but they're much more likely to be a better match for multi-cell use. Plus, again, CR123 batteries have mediocre performance curves. I'd much rather have an 18650 than a pair of CR123s in a WML. Two cell lights tend to be inefficient, as well, as they don't evenly discharge both cells, so there's some wasted capacity.

I'm also 100% on team rechargeable for a WML. I have two Surefire AA Scouts with eneloops, actually (and they're shockingly good). Primaries are horrible for civilian use, unless you like burning money. Use it for a bit, and you now KNOW you have reduced capacity. Using a rechargeable? Just recharge them, slap them back in. I don't find the mystery capacity of primaries reassuring. Primary cells are popular with Government units because they LOVE burning tax money swapping cells before every outing.

I actually have TWO MDC AA lights :) One with the SST-20 at 4000K, and then a new one with a 4500K 519A. The MDC AA is actually my absolute favorite flashlight, haha. It's SO GOOD. Three fantastic modes spaced so well, a lovely beam, great run times, and the indestructibleness of a Malkoff - all on a single eneloop AA!

I think I'd still absolutely love a single AA Rotary with a replaceable boot, though. A single eneloop would be AMAZING for the HUGE amount of low lumens settings the Rotary has, and it wouldn't be a huge deal if it topped out around 120-150 lumens.
 
The AA Malkoff is by far one of my favorites. Mode spacing is perfection and dealing with warranty issues down the road is a simple process with Malkoff. I always have the AA 4500k 519a with me, using it right now actually

I would love to see a AA/14500 duel fuel HDS Rotary. Or even a AAA Rotary or Clicky. AA and AAA are very easily obtained and are the ultimate emergency battery besides the CR123. I feel the weight of the standard CR123 HDS is lacking with output to weight ratio, however it doesn't bother me enough not to use it considering it's one of my number one lights. I feel a lightweight HDS running a common battery would be the ultimate SHTF light. The output levels a AA can obtain would indeed fit the HDS output criteria perfectly. The AA Zebralight can run almost an hour at 250 lumens (estimate) while the malkoff at 100 lumens is an hour. Rotary AA would be phenomenal, and the fact it could support a li-ion 14500 with increased max output would be a game changer, it would be thinner and lightweight
 
The AA Malkoff is by far one of my favorites. Mode spacing is perfection and dealing with warranty issues down the road is a simple process with Malkoff. I always have the AA 4500k 519a with me, using it right now actually

I would love to see a AA/14500 duel fuel HDS Rotary. Or even a AAA Rotary or Clicky. AA and AAA are very easily obtained and are the ultimate emergency battery besides the CR123. I feel the weight of the standard CR123 HDS is lacking with output to weight ratio, however it doesn't bother me enough not to use it considering it's one of my number one lights. I feel a lightweight HDS running a common battery would be the ultimate SHTF light. The output levels a AA can obtain would indeed fit the HDS output criteria perfectly. The AA Zebralight can run almost an hour at 250 lumens (estimate) while the malkoff at 100 lumens is an hour. Rotary AA would be phenomenal, and the fact it could support a li-ion 14500 with increased max output would be a game changer, it would be thinner and lightweight
100% agreed.

I think the HDS Rotary was a good balance....20 years ago, when CR123 batteries were kind of the newfangled technology. I have ZERO problem with a light not outputting more than 200 lumens in 2024, BUT those lights are my beloved AA ones I run with eneloops. I think if HDS is going to still focus on underdriving their emitters (I can respect this), and REALLY wants to lean into the market of durability/Zombie Apocalypse, an AA compatible light is almost a no-brainer. With eneloops, too, the advantage is you don't even really need regulation. You can have the light regulated with a 14500, and then just run direct drive with an eneloop, and you'll get an output slope shockingly similar to a regulated one, due to the awesomeness of eneloops.

The hint we have on the next evolution sounds like an 18500 that CAN also run AA? That would literally be the ultimate SHTF light. With a set of spacers/sleeves, just imagine how many different sizes you could run in that tube. I really, really, really am excited about that possibility.

In the meantime, I still have to figure out if I want to get a "legacy" rotary before the switch...and if I should do 16340 or 2xAA, hahah. I still haven't decided, and it's been something I've been looking at way, way too long.

Meanwhile, an 18500? I'd get that so fast. An 18500 that can run AA? Just take my money. Hahaha.
 
For hiking/emergency kits, I use CR123 primaries (I do check them before hiking along with the rest of my gear). They are rather light (~16g) with good energy capacity (4.5Whr, can vary a bit depending on discharge rate of course). (Yes, I measure my gear down to the gram for hiking ;)). That being said, I use rechargeables for most things at home as it is more economical. I do have a few lights (including SF Z-2 w/P60 and LED, SL Protac 2L) at home that can take 1x 16650 (protected) or 2x CR123, so I can switch if ever need/want to. I also like the Nite Ize Microlights as they weigh almost nothing; primary cells only though.

Edit: I apologize. I should not make light of such things. For the good of your own health, please do not breath fumes from batteries, ever.
 
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Huge understatement. Life-long lung and health issues lasting decades, if not the rest of one's life. As one fellow CPFer found out the hard way, unfortunately.
 
Huge understatement. Life-long lung and health issues lasting decades, if not the rest of one's life. As one fellow CPFer found out the hard way, unfortunately.
I believe the smell from CR123 when inside a container, is not as toxic as when it vents with flame, like what happened to our fellow CPFer. Not that we should smell it anyways.
 
I edited my post, and wanted to apologize in a reply as well; my original comment was made in poor taste. As I wrote above, please, for your own health, do not breath battery fumes, ever.
 
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Well, I'm glad you said ANYTHING. As a eneloop diehard, I don't have much experience with CR123 batteries, and I know they gas, but it never occurred to me that could be dangerous. Apparently, in a heat even, lithium can generate hydrogen fluoride gas, which is apparently super dangerous to the eyes.

Another plus in the eneloop category, haha (though, I know eneloops CAN release hydrogen if overcharged).
 
Wow, that is, this smell from CR123 is very harmful? I mean the one that is released during storage and normal use. I wonder if litmus paper, if you put it in a sealed plastic bag with batteries, will show anything? If there is acid in there, it should turn red. Although many things are odorless and do not show acidic/alkaline properties, they bring death. My friend's neighbors lived in the village. They found an empty plastic cubic tank abandoned near the road. It did not smell of anything. They used it to collect rainwater and water their plants. A year later, everyone quickly died of a very aggressive cancer. My friend said that most likely this container was used to transport chemical waste containing dioxins for illegal disposal by dumping it into the river. There was a chemical plant nearby at that time, but it is now abandoned

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Tried searching….no luck.
My HDS rotary only works on rechargeables and not primaries. Looks like it recognizes it when installed but does not work. Thoughts?
 
Interesting and sad to say I do not know. I got the light used.
From the HDS Rotary user guide.

4. Installing a New BatteryUnscrew the battery compartment from the head and remove the old battery from the battery compartment. Insert the new battery into the battery compartment with the positive terminal out. Align the head and battery compartment, press them together to overcome the spring pressure and screw the battery compartment and head back together.6As you screw the battery compartment and head back together and if the battery compartment has been removed for an extended period, your flashlight comes on dimly for 7 seconds following a battery change to indicate that a reset has taken place and that your flashlightis functioning correctly. If you change the battery quickly enough, your flashlight will not reset and no reset indication will be displayed. Areset does not change any of your flashlight's settings.No special actions are needed to use rechargeable Lithium-ion batteries. Your flashlight detects them automatically.However, if you have been using rechargeable Lithium-ion batteries and want to return to using regular (non-rechargeable) batteries, you must perform a reset. The simplest way to perform a reset is to turn on your flashlight (with the button released) and open the battery compartment until your flashlight turns off and then replace the battery compartment. If you fail to perform a reset when returning to using non-rechargeable batteries, your flashlight will act as if the new non-rechargeable battery needs replacing – just do a reset to restore normal operation.

User Guide
 
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