HDS Systems #23

Hogokansatsukan

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It was actually one sent in recently for a boot repair, so essentially brand new even though the tube itself is around 7-years old. It worked fine for the past couple of months, and then suddenly it didn't. I have no idea why, but I trust Henry to get it sorted out.

Sounds like some crud got in there when the boot was replaced. A little dust can do this if it sticks juuuuuust right to one of the contact pads. Then the fingers skip a pad and the elf gets confused about where to set the level. This is one of the things getting programmed out in the new tail... with a new elf in there. With the new tail, if this happens, the elf will still be able to figure out which level the light is supposed to go to. That and the fingers and track pad are changing as well.

While rare, it happens...
 

the.Mtn.Man

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Sounds like some crud got in there when the boot was replaced. A little dust can do this if it sticks juuuuuust right to one of the contact pads. Then the fingers skip a pad and the elf gets confused about where to set the level. This is one of the things getting programmed out in the new tail... with a new elf in there. With the new tail, if this happens, the elf will still be able to figure out which level the light is supposed to go to. That and the fingers and track pad are changing as well.

While rare, it happens...
I see, so my elf isn't smart enough. Maybe he's been dropped on his head too many times.
 

Bronc6901

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I love hearing about the internals of the rotary and how it's constantly being fine tuned. If the design is perfect, leave it alone. Just like a certain watch brand that I won't name but that still makes watches that look just like the watches they were making 60 years ago. But if you open those watches or look at the materials they're made out of, they're completely different. They've been tweaked and improved countless times. I see the rotary like that. What seems like the simple act of changing the dial to stainless but leaving it black so that it still looks like the original aluminum one but is that much stronger and less susceptible to scratches dents, is genius. And yet only the trained eye could see the difference between the two. I love it. I love owning these lights and I love that there are companies out there more worried about making a product that works the best way it can instead of looks the best it can. (This case it also looks great ;))


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JKolmo

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Thanks for the explanations Hogo! Will the V.4 non-wonky tail be rolled out as a running change to the current Rotary, or do we have to wait for the entirely new thicker body Salvation Light in order to enjoy this? I'm looking forward to not confuse the elf by something so miniscule as a single piece of dust. So annoying when that happens.
 
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GoVegan

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There are 3 advantages to the Clicky.
1. User replaceable rubber switch button.
2. Grit can't get under the start of the switch cap. I don't mean into the switch cap, but on the Rotary there is a little section grit could get under before it reaches one of the two O-rings keeping it out. This would give it a gritty feel until washed out, but wouldn't effect performance as it can't get into the workings of the tail.
3. When used under water, if one Rotates the Rotary dial, there is more likelihood of water getting in there as they are static seals... probably not a huge deal, but still, there it is.

I'll add:
4. User replaceable o-ring in the tailcap. Also possible to do maintenance, such as apply grease to o-ring many years later, or check for wear and tear.
5. No moving parts (besides the electronic switch), so it will no doubt last longer. Important in a SHFT, doomsday scenario.
6. Predictability of brightness. You always know what brightness your light will come on at. i.e. with the Executive "It turns on to Medium (level 16) - ensuring enough light for most common tasks and long run times", and with the LE, and it's design purpose, it is arguably essential that it comes on in high every time: "The EDC LE turns on to High so you always have enough light for potentially tactical situations."
7. Predictability of runtimes. Each level of the Clicky has a documented minimum runtime. This is important when estimating battery usage and how many spares to carry.
8. Rock solid tailcap, no wobbly play in the threads. Great for OCD types.
9. A long history. The EDC Executive has pretty much the same physical appearance and interface as the original EDC Basic 42 / EDC Extreme 42. While EDC LE is essentially just an upgraded maximum brightness of the Basic 60 LE.
10. Slightly cheaper.
11. Easier production process (I recall that the Clicky models were still being produced and sold even when HDS had production issues with the Rotary models, circa 2015(?)).
12. It has a proper clip available (for those that want one). The clip wasn't an after thought and doesn't become loose and fall off like the Universal pocket clip available for the Rotary.
 
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GoVegan

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The EDC Executive is an all round great adventure travel light (related to 2 & 3) above. As it can be used in and under water, even as a dive light (as detailed in the HDS FAQ), it can also be used in dry dusty/sandy environments as the tailcap threads can be cleaned afterwards.

I've used my lights on sandy beaches and also while swimming in caves, even in muddy areas (while doing wildlife rescues after a typhoon). I would not even consider using a Rotary in any of these environments.
 
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Hogokansatsukan

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#4 total non-issue. It is static.
#5 only an issue if you plan to pass it down to your great great grandchildren
#6 you can set the dial on a Rotary to have it come on in the dimmest setting, max setting, or anywhere in between. This is huge advantage to the Rotary.
#7 Rotary is more efficient when you use it correctly i.e. turn it on in minimum and dial it up to the level you actually need.
#8 That is a personal issue that can be fixed with therapy and perhaps medication
#9 Looks mean nothing. It is what inside that counts, and that has been constantly changing since the ARC.
#10 Yep. About the cost of one good meal in a decent restaurant.
#11 Executives were still being produced because they have different battery tubes and other different parts. We run out of Rotary parts faster because they sell 10 to 1 over Clickies.
#12 install it correctly.

I have a HUGE advantage in these arguments... I know all the parts in each light. I see all the lights that come back for repair. I have personally tested (and destroyed) more HDS lights than even Henry... because he has me do it! LOL! Most of these arguments in the forum are purely academic and heavily based in assumptions and anecdotal evidence.

The reality, either one will serve you well and you can pass it down to your kids. Buy the one you like. Use the one you like. Neither one is a bad choice... it is just a personal preference choice. In a TEOTWAWKI situation, either will suffice until a zombie bites you... or the sound seeking aliens eat you... but if they are light seeking aliens, then the Rotary has the advantage of being able to turn on in the dimmest mode! LOL!
 

the.Mtn.Man

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5. No moving parts (besides the electronic switch), so it will no doubt last longer. Important in a SHFT, doomsday scenario.
As was pointed out earlier, if the dial ever fails on the Rotary (as mine did recently), the light is still fully functional as a clicky. In a worst-case-scenario, you could simply remove the dial from the programming and have a light that is functionally identical to the Executive and just as durable since at that point, it is operated entirely through the switch.
 

wweiss

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What all this means to me is that you should bring two HDS lights with spare batts to any serious party you attend. Odds are neither will fail and both won't fail.
 

kaichu dento

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I find the Clicky insults insulting > will never consider a wonky Rotary.
That's funny. Finds insults insulting, follows up with insult. :laughing:

Many of us Rotary fans still preferred the Clicky initially but eventually grew to like the Rotary more and more. I think a lot of the 'cliquey' crowd haven't even owned a Rotary, or just like to exercise their contrarian point of view.

Been said too many times before, but once again; get whichever one you like and allow everyone else the same.
 

TILL-22

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That's funny. Finds insults insulting, follows up with insult. :laughing:

Many of us Rotary fans still preferred the Clicky initially but eventually grew to like the Rotary more and more. I think a lot of the 'cliquey' crowd haven't even owned a Rotary, or just like to exercise their contrarian point of view.

Been said too many times before, but once again; get whichever one you like and allow everyone else the same.

But.... if I like the Rotary, how can anyone else prefer the Clicky? That's madness.
 

klackey

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""I think a lot of the 'cliquey' crowd haven't even owned a Rotary, or just like to exercise their contrarian point of view."""

Perhaps some.... however I do own lots of examples of both. They have different usages. Refined and just so nice to use easily the Rotary. I FEEL better in Hard use , unforgiving environment (frequently embedding tail end in wet sand) that the Clicky is more robust with no dial. I have killed two roterys by using them as shower lights (inside the shower-- water/ steam/rapid temp change) until following Hennery's suggestion and use a clicky for that daily job. Reality, barring some of my excessive environments (sand & showers) the Rotary would most likely survive fine but I abuse my clickys and am a little nicer to the rotarys.

Choosing only "one".... a choice I cant imagine .......... the clicky for my perceived robustness. However, I love... love the easy access to the ultra low of the rotary.

So, that said... under normal regular use I would feel just fine with "only" a rotary.
 
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desert.snake

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I have killed two roterys by using them as shower lights (inside the shower-- water/ steam/rapid temp change) until following Hennery's suggestion and use a clicky for that daily job.

This is also my favorite application, mine while everyone is alive

As was pointed out earlier, if the dial ever fails on the Rotary (as mine did recently), the light is still fully functional as a clicky. In a worst-case-scenario, you could simply remove the dial from the programming and have a light that is functionally identical to the Executive and just as durable since at that point, it is operated entirely through the switch.

Only if it is Rotary, if it is Tactical Rotary, then there will be only 2 modes))
 

the.Mtn.Man

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I have killed two roterys by using them as shower lights (inside the shower-- water/ steam/rapid temp change) until following Hennery's suggestion and use a clicky for that daily job.
"Killed" as in rendered the light completely inoperable, or simply compromised the functioning of the dial?
 

greatscoot

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I have a question about changing batteries.

When you go from a primary to a rechargeable (or the other way), you wait 30 seconds before putting the light back together. It's my understanding that this does a "soft" reset so the Elf can re-identify the correct battery type, but it doesn't affect any programming.

Is this correct?
 

slumber

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I have a question about changing batteries.

When you go from a primary to a rechargeable (or the other way), you wait 30 seconds before putting the light back together. It's my understanding that this does a "soft" reset so the Elf can re-identify the correct battery type, but it doesn't affect any programming.

Is this correct?

I think it's 60 seconds, but it's easier to leave the light on and change batteries (don't have to wait 60 seconds). Let the light do it's thing for 5 seconds with the new battery and you're good to go. No effect on programming.
 

the.Mtn.Man

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Bombproof. Built like a tank.

...but cannot defend against the brutality of a warm shower?
I suspect he's describing a specialized situation and not simply the act of cleaning yourself up after a day on the bike trail.
 
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