HDS Systems EDC # 18

[ForrestChump]

Do these use PWM for lower outputs? Their sit is really vague.

No PWM.

 

[ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond]

No PWM.

Not exactly 100% accurate. Go to the FAQ http://www.hdssystems.com/Content/LightFaq/ and read the section under the question "What is tint control?" Henry suggests that the light uses some sort of a hybrid between PWM and current control but doesn't clarify further.

 

[ForrestChump]

Not exactly 100% accurate. Go to the FAQ http://www.hdssystems.com/Content/LightFaq/ and read the section under the question "What is tint control?" Henry suggests that the light uses some sort of a hybrid between PWM and current control but doesn't clarify further.

I am one of those PWM SUPER SENSITIVE types. There is nothing perceivable in the light output I can detect at any level. If there is some high-bred as you suggested ( I didn't read the link ) I would consider it completely negligible to the point of not mentioning it. Just my opinion.

 

[ForrestChump]

Thanks for the thorough explanation

+1

It's worth a mention it's specifically not recommended to use the rotary as a dive light as the seals are not designed for that. It also says while it isn't recommended it is capable provided you set the switch up for the water pressure it will endure keeping the switch engage (EX - setting it for High only ). It also says not to twist the switch underwater. All that said, I would have no reservations taking a Clicky into seawater at snorkling / free-dive depths. If your going deeper than that and must bring an HDS - I would go Clicky all the way. Also important to note, sea water & a CR123 are a BAD MIX.


TLDR: Buy a dive light for diving. - If it's Armageddon and you have to swim between islands, the HDS will hold it down.

 

[kaichu dento]

I am one of those PWM SUPER SENSITIVE types. There is nothing perceivable in the light output I can detect at any level. If there is some high-bred as you suggested ( I didn't read the link ) I would consider it completely negligible to the point of not mentioning it. Just my opinion.

The easiest way to understand what you're missing about PWM is that becomes less detectable as the rate/speed goes higher and makers have come a long way since the days of the L0D in removing its negative effects from our lights of present.

You could more accurately state that Henry has figured out a rate at which he could use PWM and its positive aspects while relegating concerns over the negatives to some of our older lights.

 

[recDNA]

Thanks. I was thinking of a 325 rotary but always disliked the hole. If I buy one now I will check first to make sure hole is plugged

 

[kaichu dento]

It's worth a mention it's specifically not recommended to use the rotary as a dive light as the seals are not designed for that. It also says while it isn't recommended it is capable provided you set the switch up for the water pressure it will endure keeping the switch engage (EX - setting it for High only ). It also says not to twist the switch underwater. All that said, I would have no reservations taking a Clicky into seawater at snorkling / free-dive depths. If your going deeper than that and must bring an HDS - I would go Clicky all the way.

+1
Well stated and a good point for anyone thinking about using their HDS in water to keep in mind when choosing which one to take.

I found a few months back that while I was ready to have all my HDS be Rotary only from here on out that the straight Clicky was absolutely one that I needed to keep in the arsenal of choices.

 

[recDNA]

I love infinite adjustment. I'll just leave the rotary at home when I go to the beach. I have a nice MDC with 1.45 amp neutral XP-G2 but I never carry it because I always miss the adjustment wheel.

 

[ForrestChump]

You could more accurately state that Henry has figured out a rate at which he could use PWM and its positive aspects while relegating concerns over the negatives to some of our older lights.

I think thats fair, it's also above my pay grade on how he does this, it seems you have a better handle on that. I just don't want someone reading "PWM" and think the usual and thus forgo a purchase based on that alone. I would never consider a light that uses PWM except something like the Polytac that can forgo the lower PWM settings. Yet I use an HDS exclusively on all levels without any perceivable ( normal? ) PWM. If it's a non issue for me, I think it would be for 99.9999% of people who really don't care for PWM.


Just when I think I have a grasp on most things HDS does, or is capable of, I learn 5 more things.....Ha!

 

[kaichu dento]

I think thats fair, it's also above my pay grade on how he does this, it seems you have a better handle on that. I just don't want someone reading "PWM" and think the usual and thus forgo a purchase based on that alone. I would never consider a light that uses PWM except something like the Polytac that can forgo the lower PWM settings. Yet I use an HDS exclusively on all levels without any perceivable ( normal? ) PWM. If it's a non issue for me, I think it would be for 99.9999% of people who really don't care for PWM.

The mere presence of PWM was a pretty negative issue for most of us here when I first joined CPF and I remember well the conversations of a few years back in which we started seeing some lights and the rate of the PWM explained well enough that we started feeling differently about the issue. It still confuses me a bit between various forms of regulation and how they all affect tint, along with output level, but I don't have the same fear of the existence of PWM in a light (unless its an older one I'm considering buying) that I did a couple years ago before makers started addressing raising the rates of on/off cycles to the point that we could no longer detect the dreaded strobe effect.

 

[JohnSmith]

Here's my new 250 Clicky with 18650 tube (the battery wasn't included).
It came with the AlTiN bezel treatment rather than the black nitride.
Check out the new packaging, a square tube rather than the standard clamshell-type.
I ordered without a clip because I have a spare black standard HDS clip, I just took this picture straight out of the package...

 

[ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond]

I am one of those PWM SUPER SENSITIVE types. There is nothing perceivable in the light output I can detect at any level. If there is some high-bred as you suggested ( I didn't read the link ) I would consider it completely negligible to the point of not mentioning it. Just my opinion.

Trust me - I completely agree with you - I HATE PWM. I appear to be one of the only people who detect PWM in the McGizmo Haiku line of lights and it drives me crazy. I can also very easily detect 2kHz PWM in lights like the LF2XT although I can deal with that PWM rate and it doesn't bother to the point of not still loving the lights for its other features.

This topic came up before and I was as adamant as you that the light was current controlled until someone directed me to the same FAQ article I posted. There's definitely some HDS magic going on there because I can't detect the PWM at all.

Maybe he is partially driving the LED and only riding a small AC/PWM ripple voltage on top of the DC current.

It's kinda like knowing how many licks it takes to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Roll pop...... the world may never know.

 

[pjandyho]

I am the other one who detected PWM on my Haiku, especially noticeable on low level and milder on medium. It drives me nuts but I can still live with it. As for HDS, I am just so happy with the way it is driven. No noticeable detection of PWM signature at all. The Haiku was my favorite light for more than two years but HDS rotary has since replaced the Haiku.

 

[reppans]

Just wanted to add a little science to the PWM question, as I am yet another who can quite easily detect it, and who also finds it rather annoying. I've run a series of fast sweeps across a DSLR on time exposure, which should be the definitive proof of PWM. (I made it B&W to avoid the inevitable tint comparisons - there's some HCRIs in there and they always make CW look awful in side-by-sides.)

The first 3 photos are of an HDS 325 (L) and Quark low voltage XML (R) on ~0.3/3/30 lumens... you can see a hit of "warble" with either beam, which is not uncommon with most current regulated lights I've photographed. The last is the HDS in between a ET D25A (L) and 47s Mini AA (R) on ~3 lms. These are the two fastest PWM lights I own, and I can visually detect the Mini, but not the D25. I also have Malkoff MDC AA and it uses a significantly slower PWM.

IMHO, HDS does not use PWM.

 

[recDNA]

I love the AlTiN bezel. Does the standard tactical tube (CR123A) come with AlTiN or Nitride bezel?

Photos above are amazing display of PWM. I'm lucky. I never see it, not even slow PWM is visible to me nor is fluorescent light flicker.

 

[ForrestChump]

IMHO, HDS does not use PWM.

Thats some crazy mojo there!

To all the would be HDS purchasers, there is magic powers in HDS lights in regards to this topic ( buy one ).

Hogo likes to call them elves, I concur. reepans, did you observe any of these elve like creatures in any of your photos?

Perhaps they are contributing outside the light as well. Maybe beam riding alien elves that self replicate and help control beam output?

 

[JohnSmith]

I love the AlTiN bezel. Does the standard tactical tube (CR123A) come with AlTiN or Nitride bezel?

I think it's the luck of the draw right now. I don't think a particular bezel finish is associated with a particular battery tube. I prefer the look of the black nitride, but I have a feeling AlTiN is more durable.

 

[sledhead]

Here's my new 250 Clicky with 18650 tube (the battery wasn't included).
It came with the AlTiN bezel treatment rather than the black nitride.
Check out the new packaging, a square tube rather than the standard clamshell-type.
I ordered without a clip because I have a spare black standard HDS clip, I just took this picture straight out of the package...

Great looking light! Flat tail cap? Stand nice? Looking forward to my 4000 XP-L nuetral with the 18650 tube.....

 

[JohnSmith]

Great looking light! Flat tail cap? Stand nice? Looking forward to my 4000 XP-L nuetral with the 18650 tube.....

Raised tail cap, thats how I roll on all my HDSs... If I need to tail stand I just put it in a coffee cup.

 

[reppans]

Hogo likes to call them elves, I concur. reepans, did you observe any of these elve like creatures in any of your photos?

No yet, but I'll find 'em - just let me locate my Rum first