Help me configure an M30WF light...please.

[R.ticle One]

Hello everyone,

After some hiatus from this crazy place, I've returned, still pondering my options for a light. On one hand, I'm still keen on having an emitter swap done. On the other hand, I revisited the Malkoff Devices site and had another look at the surefire dropins - particularly the M30WF.

I shied away from Surefire Malkoff dropins at one point because I thought they could only be used with Surefires using two 123 batteries - to be honest, the exploding light stories scared me away.

Now, I see that this dropin M30WF, the characteristics of which really appeal to me, is meant for use with a Surefire running one battery. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that means no explosion risk, correct?

I'm still a bit confused about configuring a light with the right batteries for this dropin, however.

First, I'd probably choose the Surefire 6P incandescent model as the body - that's a good first step, yes?

My confusion has to do with the batteries; on the Malkoff site, it says the dropin is designed for use with "a single lithium rechargeable cell".
However, a bit lower down, it states: "The runtime is 1 1/4+ hours on one CR123 primary battery. Runtimes on other battery configurations are highly dependant upon the size and capacity of the cell."

Which makes me say "so this means that you're not limited to using a rechargeable single cell?"

Now, which is the case?

In one thread, I see someone say:

"My favorite is my M30WF. Just a damn bright wall of light. The tint,beam,and flexablity are all excellent. I can vary output by the battery type. Want full power use an 18650.Want about 120-130 lumens use 2aa.
Want 60-80 lumens with 4:55 hr runtime use 4/3af cell.For me this is the crowning jewel of the Malkoff line. "

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2871994&postcount=20

In another, I see someone say:

"I agree. I have a M30WF. so far I've ran it on cr123,rcr123,aa,17670,18650,4/3a,4/3af,and 4/5a cell.

Here is the runtime test that I have completed.

aa= 1 eneloop starting voltage 1.498v ending voltage of .940
runtime of 2:31 hrs. 60 to 70 lumens est..

17670= Starting voltage of 4.16 ending voltage of 3.56 runtime of
1:16 hrs. 170 lumen est.

4/3a= Staring voltage of 1.467v ending voltage of .958v runtime of 4:20
hrs. 60 to 70 lumen est

4/3af= starting voltage of 1.49v ending voltage of .973v runtime of 4:55
hrs.60 to 70 lumen est.

I still haven't done the runtime test on cr123 or rcr123. I'm going to do 2 eneloops next."

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2834436&postcount=48




So...what's the deal?

What battery configurations will actually work with an incan 6P body and an M30WF dropin - and preferably without having the body bored out to accept different batteries, if possible? Or should I be looking at different lights for this option?

Thank you muchly!

 

[donn_]

The maximum input voltage for this drop-in is 5.5V. The minimum is 1V. Using a stock 6P, you could use the following battery setups:

1x primary lithium CR123A with a dummy.

1x rechargeable Li-Ion RCR123 with a dummy.

1x rechargeable Li-Ion 14500, 14670, 17500 or 17670, each with appropriate spacer and/or tube.

1x NiMH AA cell with a spacer and a tube.

2x NiMH 2/3A cells with spacer.

1x alkaline AA cell with spacer.

1x LiFePO4 123-sized cell with spacer.

There are probably other options I've forgotten, but the upshot is as long as you stay between 1 and 5.5V, the drop-in will work.

 

[R.ticle One]

Spacers and dummies? Wow, call me shortsighted, but I'd never even thought of such things. Would you mind elaborating on these? Such as, where can I find the right spacers and tubes (and how do I use them) for each battery type?

And when you say "dummy", are you referring to a dead battery (sorry, this is probably a dumb question, no pun intended), or an inert, battery shaped metal object - but what, specifically, would fit?

Are all of these non boring-out-the-body options?

Many, many thanks!

 

[donn_]

Dummies are inert battery shaped spacers in specific sizes. Many vendors sell them in a variety of sizes, most commonly AA and CR123A size.

Spacers are generally shorter in length than dummies, to fill less space in the battery tube. I make my own, from various parts, including copper rod, rare earth magnets, etc.. Just be sure to adequately insulate them to prevent shorting to the inside of the battery tube.

Tubes are inserted into the battery tube to allow the use of thinner cells without rattling. I make my own from various sizes of PVC or PEX or Poly plumbing tube.

All of the options I listed will work in a stock, non-bored 6P.

 

[rmteo]

The battery with the highest energy density that can fit in a 6P type light is the 18650. However, it will require the 6P body to be bored out. One option - if you have not already ordered/bought the 6P - is to get a Solarforce L2M. It can use all of the batteries above (including the 18650) plus there is a wide range of accessories (extension tubes, short/long bodies, etc.) available for it. You can get a complete 5-mode light (including holster and battery) for $25 - you can toss/sell the LED module and replace it with the M30WF.

 

[R.ticle One]

Thanks very much so far, guys! The Solarforce looks interesting, too - I'm not a hundred percent sure on it; I think I might like a single mode, on or off light, but we'll see...

Now, let's say I were to use 1AA battery in a stock 6P body with an M30WF, and a spacer.

Would that be setting myself up for some rather weak light? I know this dropin isn't a blinding thrower, and that's not what I'm after with this, but would a single AA Alkaline be rather...wimpy, in the output department?

As far as spacers go - do they have to be metal? And how do you insulate them? Do they go in after the battery, so they touch the inside of the tailcap? Again, I must apologize for these basic questions; I really know very little about electrical flow.

Thanking you!

 

[donn_]

As you can see in Malkoff's website copy, the less voltage you give the drop-in, the less lumen output you get.

Spacers have to conduct electricity, so metal is the easiest option. You insulate them with shrink tube, electrician's tape, etc.. The ends need to be in contact with either the spring in the tailcap or the battery in front/behind it, or the contact spring on the back of the drop-in.

 

[Sgt. LED]

Get the solarforce for the battery tube. Your Malkoff is what makes it 1 mode, not the switch.

An M60 on 1 AA is not really bright but it works.

Spacers need to touch the battery and the tailcap spring but not the sides. If it touches the sides while touching the battery you are in trouble. BANG

Insulate the sides of the metal spacer with something (shrinkwrap-tape-plasti coat-wood) or just purchase pre-made spacers if you aren't too handy. Taking a dowel rod of the right diameter and drilling a hole in it then putting a wire thru the hole works well. Put a little solder glob on each end of the wire.

 

[Martin SH]

If you are going to use a 6P body why not use the M60 version of the drop in? You can use two cr123s or rcr123s. No boring just drop it in and go. Or why not consider the MD2 Malkoffs own body (which will take a number of different battery types).

Cheers
Martin

 

[R.ticle One]

First - thank you everyone for the help with the spacers. If I doubt my handiness so much that I'd rather get pre-made ones where would the best place to do that be?

Sgt. LED - so I understand correctly - the only thing that makes the Solarforce multimode is the circuitry built into its emitter, right? Which is thus eliminated by the replacement with a Malkoff?

So, let's say that I was looking at an M60WF instead of an M30WLF, to go into the Solarforce body; are there any additional battery combinations beyond what's been listed in this thread so far? (Also, are there any limitations on what I can use?)

I'm still shy on using more than 1 CR type battery at once.

It says " Below 3.8 volts it will drop out of regulation and run direct drive." Shoot - I guess that means no using 2 AA batteries, then, unless I want the light to slowly die out!

Re: the Solarforce - I see there's an L2 and an L2M - what's the difference? Is one good for the M30WLF and the other for the M60WF?
Are Solarforce lights water resistant and tough as Surefires?

My continual thanks!

 

[rmteo]

I won't go into which is better/tougher, etc. between the Surefire and the Solarforce. Suffice to say that I have 5 Solarforces (soon to be 8 with the arrival of 3 in sand color) and 1 6PL which will be sold soon.

The main difference between the 2 brands for your needs is that the Solarforce will take cells up to 18mm. diameter which the Surefire will not unless you bore it out.

The L2M is the short body version (equivalent to a 3P) which takes a single CR123 primary or 16340 rechargeable. The L2 is the long body (equivalent to a 6P) which takes 2 of the same cells or a single 18650 or 17670.

For the ultimate flexibility, get an L2 ($25), a spare short body ($10) and an L2-E18G long extension($10). With these (total of $45) you can have the following configurations:

3P - short body only - 1x CR123 or 1x 16340
6P - long body only - 2x CR124 or 2x 16340 or 1x 17670 or 1x 18650
9P - short body + extension - 3x CR123, 3x 16340, 2x 17500, 2x 18500, 2x AA (with spacer tube)
12P - long body + extension - 4x CR123, 4x 16340, 2x 17670, 2x 18650

You are correct that the multi-mode feature is part of the Solarforce LED module and will be gone when it is replaced with the Malkoff. Don't be too quick in dismissing it though. Try it for a while (you are getting it FREE with the L2 anyway) - you might like it enough to not want to replace it.

 

[R.ticle One]

rmteo - That sounds great! Where's the best place to get the L2 and the aforementioned extension tube and short body? eBay, or elsewhere?

Any thoughts on pre-made spacer tubes?

So would you say that the most versatile dropin would be the M60WF, rather than the M30WLF, if I got the above combination of Solarforce parts, since using it at less than 3.8 volts will just result in a loss of regulation, and end up in direct drive only? (Is that correct, or am I mistaken - say I use 2 AAs at 1.2 V each, which is only 2.4 V with the M60WF; will it work at all, just dimming down with time, or simply not turn on?)

Cheers!

 

[rmteo]

Here is where I got mine:
http://www.solarforcestore.com/servlet/the-18650-FLASHLIGHT/Categories

There are other sources - look for a CPF member by the name of jake25 - he can supply them as well.

I only use 18650 and 16340 rechargeables so I don't have a need for spacers/tubes - maybe others can chime in here.

As for the Malkoff drop-in's, I do not have experience with them so again, others with better knowledge/experience can chime in.

 

[R.ticle One]

Thank you. Now, I just need to figure out which Malkoff dropin (M30WLF or M60WF) would be best. All advice appreciated!

 

[Mjolnir]

You can also get solarforce hosts and extensions at lighthound. The extensions are about $7 each.

I personally would not use AA batteries in a host designed for CR123's and 18650s. AA would only work with an extension, but 2 18650's would last far longer than 2 AA batteries. I'm not sure if AA batteries will stand up to the current well enough for it to be worth it. If you want an AA light, get a dedicated AA light. It will be much easier.

 

[nfetterly]

From what I saw in your initial post - you wanted to do a single cell due to fear of multiple cells - I would presume this means you don't want to go to Li-ion rechargeables either.

What I would suggest is the M30W or M30WF (flood) with

http://www.lighthound.com/FiveMega-C-Tail-C-Head-1x123-or-1x16340-Battery-Black-Finish_p_2825.html

body from lighthound.com - essentially a "3P" - a single CR123 cell with the "C/P/Z" tail size and head size. So you can use any tail and head for a Surefire (or compatible) C/P/Z

If you want to use a Lanyard I would also get the following

http://www.lighthound.com/Inox-Lanyard-Ring-for-SureFire-C-D-M-P-Z-series-flashlights_p_688.html

Lighthound also has a variety of heads that will fit - and tails as well - or you can pick them up on the marketplace. I don't have any association with Lighthound other than being a happy customer - note that they have a "free shipping over $75" in the US as well - also put CPF in the coupon area and save 2%.

I have a 3P setup like the one above.

Neale

 

[R.ticle One]

Well, I am still wary of multiple lith. batteries, and things blowing up. I just posted a thread here:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=2942705#post2942705

...asking a bunch of questions about risks, etc. One of them pertained to either a single 18650 or CR123A cell and its safety. What are your thoughts - are 18650s safe in single configuration, or no more so than a single quality (US Made) CR123A?

Thanks!

 

[donn_]

I have one last suggestion for you, r.tickle.

Quit being lazy, and spend a bit of quality time researching on CPF. You'll easily find answers to every question you have asked, and you'll come to your own conclusions, rather than accepting the conclusions and opinions of others.

 

[R.ticle One]

Ouch. Thanks for your previous help, though your implication that I've done no research isn't correct. I partly draw my own conclusions, however, I appreciate the opinions of others, especially those who have experience and knowledge about the topics at hand. If I thought there was no sense in asking so many questions, I wouldn't do it. I'm not one of those who tell those who ask things to "UTFSE" - I do UTFSE, but at the same time, I appreciate hearing thoughts about particular configurations people as time has passed since whatever results searching may yield have been posted.

Everyone, thank you for your opinions. I am open to more, and apologize if you do not like me seeking your advice.

 

[TMedina]

For work purposes, I go with existing configurations - nothing fancy or exotic because I can't risk having something not thoroughly tested fail on me. Also, CR123s are pretty standard and fairly easy to get and run with.

The other advantage to CR123s, which may or may not appeal to you, is the "quick reload" option. If you have the possibility of being away from a recharging point for any length of time or can't put hands on another rechargeable battery, you have problems.

For a flashlight to function within conventional parameters, it's significantly easier to put your hands on more CR123s.

Just my two bits.

-Trevor