Help me decide MH-C9000 or BC-900

[schmart]

So I'm finally ready to get a good charger that I won't have to upgrade next year. In what I have read it seems the MH-C9000 may have a slight edge on information provided about each cell status, but with the LaCrose on sale at Thomas Dist. I'm wondering if it is worth the extra cost.
Currently the MH-C9000 is $49 for the charger only.
The BC-900 is $36 and includes 8 batteries, which puts the charger cost at about $25....

I am wanting a charger that will both allow me to manage my battery inventory and sort out bad batteries, but also be simple enough to run for the kids to charge the batteries from their cameras, etc.

Can anyone give me a technical reason why I would be better off to spend the extra on the MH-C9000 or should I be happy with the BC-900.

Thanks,
--Rick

 

[Mr Happy]

Technical reasons:

1. The C9000 default charging rate of 1 amp is more suitable for accurate charging than the BC-900's default rate of 200 mA. (The default charging rate is where you just insert the batteries and don't press any buttons.)

2. The C9000 has a wider battery spacing providing better air circulation for cooling, and making it much easier to get the batteries in and out.

3. The C9000 has the break-in mode that can be used to condition new cells for optimum performance and recondition older cells that have lost their pep.

4. The overall build quality and engineering of the C9000 is arguably better. The unit feels like a professional tool.

5. Maha customer service is exemplary. The C9000 doesn't often go wrong, but if it does Maha will keep you happy.

 

[LED_Thrift]

Thanks for that answer Mr. Happy, I was wondering about those two chargers too.

Welcome to CPF schmart. This place is great for getting well informed answers.

 

[MarioJP]

How often does this charger rejects batteries with high internal resistance?

 

[mfm]

Can anyone give me a technical reason why I would be better off to spend the extra on the MH-C9000

Googling "BC-900 meltdown" should certainly do it.

 

[Conan]

Googling "BC-900 meltdown" should certainly do it.

+1 :thumbsup:

 

[damn_hammer]

i just purchased the lacrosse bc-9009 from amazon. is it even safe to use? i'm wondering if i should send it back when it arrives.

 

[Kaamos]

I have and use the BC-900. It has nice features, but the design is very badly "thermally challenged". Even at 1A almost all batteries get very hot, when charged 4 at a time. The air circulation around the batteries is way too limited. I have set up an old computer fan over the charger and that way it works just great. Of course that's just a workaround needed because of bad design. Charge currents below 0.5C should not warm up good batteries much in a good charger.

 

[MarioJP]

I have and use the BC-900. It has nice features, but the design is very badly "thermally challenged". Even at 1A almost all batteries get very hot, when charged 4 at a time. The air circulation around the batteries is way too limited. I have set up an old computer fan over the charger and that way it works just great. Of course that's just a workaround needed because of bad design. Charge currents below 0.5C should not warm up good batteries much in a good charger.

Actually that's somewhat true. So far I been charging 4 cells at 1amp and does not overheat. Though it does start to warm up but that's only when its nearing the charge cycle for the cells.

Now if you start to charge crappy cells then that's another story.

There is 2 quick around to avoid cells from getting too hot. (by that time the thermal sensor would have trip beforehand.)

1. have the charger upside down that way the heat rises up away from the cells instead of the heat migrating to the cells

2. Use a cooling fan. (did plenty of tests on this would highly recommend that you charge at 1amp or higher for effective termination of the cells).

Also to remember that if you charge crappy cells a fan is a must to avoid the thermal sensor from tripping.

Overall with this charger I have not had any meltdowns only overheating of bad cells. The sensor is doing its job terminates when the cells starts to become hot but not hot enough to melt.

I would say that this charger is more flexible over the maha due to able to charge neglected cells.

Don't let my opinions persuade you

 

[lrp]

What Mr. Happy said!!

 

[Mr Happy]

How often does this charger rejects batteries with high internal resistance?

I have charged all sorts of cells in the C9000 and I have never seen it reject one of them. I have no idea how bad a cell would have to be before the C9000 refused to charge it.

The bad cell test is not that sensitive. I have even persuaded to the C9000 to accept an alkaline cell on occasion! (But don't try and charge one. Should you succeed in getting it accepted it will just burst and make a mess of your charger.)

 

[Elliot]

I like the BC-900 and choose it because of its small size and the "extras". I bought mine maybe 2 1/2 or 3 years ago - after they corrected the meltdown feature. It's very fast and easy to use with an excelent display.

If I were buying a charger today (for my twice a week needs), I still would get the BC-900. If I was using a charger everyday, I'd get the C9000.

The batteries that come with the BC-900 are not really the best. Right now Rayovac is giving away their 4.0 batteries at about $1 each shipped to your door. The are very good and are probably better than eneloops in price/performance terms for most uses. This is my long winded way of saying - I don't really need all the super features and "cool" running of the Maha. At a buck each I discard batteries that heat up too fast.

 

[vali]

I had a lot of really crap cells from my pre-C9000 era. Only one of them was rejected (some of the cells had only 20% capacity remaining).

 

[brted]

How often does this charger rejects batteries with high internal resistance?

I had some really old cells (5+ years) and some that were damaged in a cheap charger that were rejected. I could play around with them and get the C9000 to charge them, but it wasn't worth it because their shelf life was still bad and the capacities weren't close to what they should have been. Better to get good batteries, which won't be rejected, and recycle the bad ones.

 

[mfm]

I like the BC-900 and choose it because of its small size and the "extras". I bought mine maybe 2 1/2 or 3 years ago - after they corrected the meltdown feature. It's very fast and easy to use with an excelent display.

Correction of the meltdown issue was the ROM upgrade? People still had meltdowns, maybe just not that often.

And the most likely cause of the meltdown is internal component failure (google "bc-900 mosfet"), not that it becomes too hot during normal charging.

 

[Lightcrazycanuck]

Technical reasons:

1. The C9000 default charging rate of 1 amp is more suitable for accurate charging than the BC-900's default rate of 200 mA. (The default charging rate is where you just insert the batteries and don't press any buttons.)

2. The C9000 has a wider battery spacing providing better air circulation for cooling, and making it much easier to get the batteries in and out.

3. The C9000 has the break-in mode that can be used to condition new cells for optimum performance and recondition older cells that have lost their pep.

4. The overall build quality and engineering of the C9000 is arguably better. The unit feels like a professional tool.

5. Maha customer service is exemplary. The C9000 doesn't often go wrong, but if it does Maha will keep you happy.

Thanks for the info Mr Happy.You answered the questions I had between the two also.Your the best.:thumbsup:

 

[TakeTheActive]

So I'm finally ready to get a good charger that I won't have to upgrade next year. In what I have read it seems the MH-C9000 may have a slight edge on information provided about each cell status, but with the LaCrose on sale at Thomas Dist. I'm wondering if it is worth the extra cost...

...I am wanting a charger that will both allow me to manage my battery inventory and sort out bad batteries, but also be simple enough to run for the kids to charge the batteries from their cameras, etc.

Can anyone give me a technical reason why I would be better off to spend the extra on the MH-C9000 or should I be happy with the BC-900...

Technical reasons:

1 - 5.

+1 :thumbsup:

Plus:

1. The C9000 has 'finer' control of Charge and Discharge current.
   See: TTA's NiMH/NiCD Battery Charger Specifications Thread
   .
2. The C9000 doesn't LOCK the Discharge current to 50% of the Charge current.
   .
3. The C9000's MAX Voltage of 1.47VDC (vs ~1.53VDC), followed by a '100mA for 2 hours Topoff' is gentler / cooler.
   .
4. The C9000 STOPS at the end of a Discharge Cycle.

Minus:

1. The BC-900/BC-9009 has lower Deep Discharage capability.
   See: Cell Recovery: Deep Discharge Technique
   .
2. The La Crosse 'C-to-D' Adapters came in handy for getting some use out of some 4500mAh NiMH Cs that I bought and hardly used. The Sanyo C and D Adapters are 'AA-to-X' only.

I like the BC-900 and choose it because of its small size and the "extras". I bought mine maybe 2 1/2 or 3 years ago - after they corrected the meltdown feature...

• The cells that I received with my BC-900 (Dec. 2006) were non-LSD and achieved ~75% of their stated capacity. 3 AAAs (of 16) leaked within the wrapper at the positive end. I use them for my 'Walking / Geocaching' GPS (2 AAs) and our MP3 players (1 AAA).
  .
• IMO, the BC-900/BC-9009 'Meltdown' problem (Microprocessor / MOSFET Lockup) has not been corrected. Witness the recent (Nov 2009 IIRC) BC-9009 report. Plug your BC-900/BC-9009 into a Surge Supressor and place it in a Pyrex plate or on a ceramic tile 'just in case'.

 

[TakeTheActive]

How often does this charger rejects batteries with high internal resistance?

I had a lot of really crap cells from my pre-C9000 era. Only one of them was rejected (some of the cells had only 20% capacity remaining).

I had some really old cells (5+ years) and some that were damaged in a cheap charger that were rejected...

To date, I have ~6 cells out of ~50 (Age: 10+ years; Rayovac AA 1300mAh & 1600mAh; DieHard AA 1300mAh, RadioShack AA 1300mAh; see: Do You Maintain *CRAP* NiCD/NiMH Cells?) that were NEGLECTED / COOKED / MISTREATED (pre BC-900/C9000), whose C9000 Impedance Check Voltage is greater than 2.10VDC.

I also have ~8 POORLY MANUFACTURED / DEFECTIVE, IMHO, cells (Age: ~5-6 years; Nexcell AA 1800mAh; Sakar AA 2500mAh) that I got less than 10 cycles out of even with the BC-900 REFRESH (bought Dec. 2006).

If they have at least 50% Capacity and last at least 30 days in a thermometer or remote, they stay in service, replacing the potentially LEAKY alkalines.

 

[condor11]

I am actually very surprised that by now anyone even considers recommeding BC-900. The very latest report, along with many others, clearly indicate that it is not a safe product to use. Forget that it will melt and kill the batteries, but what if it causes fire?

Safety should really be #1 concern.

Besides the fact that LaCrosse hasn't acknowledged the issue with BC-900 (probably because they want to avoid legal issues) is not comforting either.

 

[TakeTheActive]

Correction of the meltdown issue was the ROM upgrade? People still had meltdowns, maybe just not that often.

And the most likely cause of the meltdown is internal component failure (google "bc-900 mosfet"), not that it becomes too hot during normal charging.

I agree.

(I usually open several TABs in Firefox, [slowly] reply to those threads that I'm interested in and sometimes when I 'Refresh', I find from one to many NEW replies in between. :shrug:)

IMO, too many folks are confusing the "Microprocessor / MOSFET Lockup" problem (see: La Crosse BC-900 Meltdown Analysis (Technical) {2006} - willchueh - Maha Employee) with the "Overheats Because of:"

• Poor Design - cells are too close together
  .
• Too High Charge Current - even 4 healthy AA cells get warm @ 1000mA
  .
• High Internal Resistance Cells - they get warmer than healthy cells, regardless of the charger used