Help with specs on stock Surefire driver boards

[Modder]

I want to mod some lights I have and am wondering what kind of circuits are used in them, so I know what emitter I can replace it with...

The light heads I have are KL1 with optic, KL4 with reflector, KL3 with optic, KL5 with reflector.
Also, what the difference when running each on 1 RCR or 2 RCR's ?

Anyone know more about these ?

 

[FREI]

KL1 Gen. 1-4, driver (but not the optic) and Kl4 with Seoul P4 (reflector also!) work very well with all "standart" emitter (xp-e, xp-g, xp-l, xm-l, Nichia 219, etc)
KL4 with Luxeon V work with Cree mc-e (2S2P), xhp50 (6V)
I don´t have any experiences with KL3 and 5

 

[m4a1usr]

I've modified every head you have listed and since there are nuances with each head there is no one correct answer. Each head in designed differently inside and you will need to answer some basic questions. Do you have the ability to machine the innards somewhat to adapt to the new emitter? And do you have a selection of reflectors, glass lens and MCPCB's on hand? The KL1 with its domed lens will work with an XPG/XPL/XPE LED swap but it requires an 8mm MCPCB and a thin piece of alum/brass/copper under it to get the beam from having horrible artifacts. Not hat a square beam is perfect IMO. You can use a TIR reflector and get rid of the domed lens for a decent nice beam profile but again your going to need some "goodies" laying around to make it work correctly.

A KL4 in probably the simplest of the heads you have listed. A 1mm thick 10mm dia MCPCB will get you close to a decent beam on the TIR version. The reflector version will require machining almost certainly. I like an XML in either version. There are some early version KL4's that have a very unique design and will absolutely require a drill press at a minimum but a mill would be 10 times better.

A KL3 is problematic depending on what version you have. The early ribbed design is the most difficult to get right. It requires a very specific TIR in length. The stock one is pretty much worthless. At least for a modern type LED swap mod. But on the positive side a 20mm MCPCB fits! If your going to the length of swapping the LED you might as well do the driver at the same time. You can use a standard 17mm driver of your choice (AK47-101/AK47-100/AX2002/etc) but you will need to use a 20mm copper banjo gasket to use as an adapter where you yank out the stock driver. The latter KL3 is not as problematic except for breaking it open. The later versions are sealed with the permanent red Loctite. And depending on the mood of the Surefire Tech that day of assembly he might have used gobs or maybe went a bit more sparse. Have read of more than one guy who totally trashed his KL3 just trying to break it open! Bummer.

The KL5 is pretty simple in most regards but with the same issue as above trying to just get it open. There are at least 2 versions I have worked on and the one with the rounded C2M adapter will most likely kick your you know what. It took me over a year to design very, very specialized tooling to break one open without ruining either the reflector (bubbling) with too much heat or having enough clamping force to not just spin a gouge the aluminum.

I could go on and on about other Surefire heads but since you only asked about those heads let me leave on the note of take each mod slow. Think things thru carefully. Plan it with at least several alternative options. Remember you only get one chance with a customers head. Always helps to have already done these types of mods to your own items right? This kind of stuff is very addicting. Be warned you will end up with a garage full of "must haves".

 

[Modder]

that was a quick reply.
I have already gotten the heads open without damage. I used rubber straps, hose clamps, boiling water or a small toaster oven. Easy as pie, haha
I just checked my lights and none had the red Loctite, all were black as far as I can see.

in the KL5, I just did an emitter-swap with a Seoul SSC P4. I'm very satisfied with the beam profile, it is brighter than the LuxV (?) I think which was in it, but the current being pulled from a single RCR battery seemed a bit high to me.
Do you know what the original current and voltage to the led were ?

in the KL4 I swapped the old LuxV with a Cree XR-E, don't remember the tint, but this emitter has the most pleasant pure white color I have ever seen from a led, not warm, nor green or blue. Just white, the whole beam. The beam profile is very floody but does have a wide hotspot in the center.
Again, the light is much brighter than the LuxV it replaced but current draw from a single RCR battery also seems high.
Do you know how many amps and volts were fed to the stock led ?

in the KL1 I also replaced the emitter, forgot which one, I'm guessing an SSC P4 also. I use the stock optic (TIR) and domes lens and the light is a small thrower. Very tight, with only 1 outer ring of light. Not sure if I set my DMM correct, but I'm reading 8.8A... or should it be 0.88A from a single RCR ?

The KL3 is the only light I did not modify yet. I did get it open. It is the non-ribbed version, with a C2M type adapter at the bottom.
I have access to a small machine shop in my area and I could make an adapter to fit a proper driver in place of the original.

Do you have experience with different driver boards ?

 

[Nitroz]

that was a quick reply.
I have already gotten the heads open without damage. I used rubber straps, hose clamps, boiling water or a small toaster oven. Easy as pie, haha
I just checked my lights and none had the red Loctite, all were black as far as I can see.

That is great! But if you do this long enough as M4a said, you will encounter the red loctite beast.

in the KL5, I just did an emitter-swap with a Seoul SSC P4. I'm very satisfied with the beam profile, it is brighter than the LuxV (?) I think which was in it, but the current being pulled from a single RCR battery seemed a bit high to me.
Do you know what the original current and voltage to the led were ?

That is because you swapped a 3v emitter in place of the old 6v. That and the Seoul is an older gen LED, you need some new 6v LEDs with better tint and performance if you plan on staying with the stock circuit.

in the KL4 I swapped the old LuxV with a Cree XR-E, don't remember the tint, but this emitter has the most pleasant pure white color I have ever seen from a led, not warm, nor green or blue. Just white, the whole beam. The beam profile is very floody but does have a wide hotspot in the center.
Again, the light is much brighter than the LuxV it replaced but current draw from a single RCR battery also seems high.
Do you know how many amps and volts were fed to the stock led ?

Same as above, 6v emitter to 3v. And sorry to say this again but the XR-E is way old. Both the KL5 and KL4 have circuits for a 6v emitter that can be swapped out. I think if you run these two long enough with the 3 watt emitters they are going to die.

in the KL1 I also replaced the emitter, forgot which one, I'm guessing an SSC P4 also. I use the stock optic (TIR) and domes lens and the light is a small thrower. Very tight, with only 1 outer ring of light. Not sure if I set my DMM correct, but I'm reading 8.8A... or should it be 0.88A from a single RCR ?

Not sure about a KL1, I let someone else chime in on that one.

The KL3 is the only light I did not modify yet. I did get it open. It is the non-ribbed version, with a C2M type adapter at the bottom.
I have access to a small machine shop in my area and I could make an adapter to fit a proper driver in place of the original.

Do you have experience with different driver boards ?

I have a KL3 that I plan to modify but have not got around to it yet.

 

[Modder]

the mods were done a few years back, before the current emitters were available.
I'm posting about this now because I want to update them with new emitters (or boards).

Is the 6v output voltage from the KL4 and KL5 fixed ?
I'm running them on single cells, output is *not bad*, but can they handle 2x RCR ?
I'll be ordering emitters soon, so I was wondering if I could do just an emitter swap and stay with the stock boars (if they are still any good in 2016).



I replaced the stock optic of the KL3 with an McR27 and the beam is nice and round, to me seems to have more throw, I'll try to take a picture tomorrow..
The McR27 is 27mm, the bezel opening is about 30mm, so there is a small gap around the reflector.

That is because you swapped a 3v emitter in place of the old 6v. That and the Seoul is an older gen LED, you need some new LEDs with better tint and performance.

Same as above, 6v emitter to 3v. And sorry to say this again but the XR-E is way old.

 

[Nitroz]

the mods were done a few years back, before the current emitters were available.
I'm posting about this now because I want to update them with new emitters (or boards).

I see. You now have lots of options. Tint, flood or throw, triples. It can be quite mind boggling when you have not done this in a few years.

Is the 6v output voltage from the KL4 and KL5 fixed ?
I'm running them on single cells, output is *not bad*, but can they handle 2x RCR ?
I'll be ordering emitters soon, so I was wondering if I could do just an emitter swap and stay with the stock boars (if they are still any good in 2016).

What emitters do you plan to use?

For optimal performance the KL5 and 4 work best with two CR123s. I can't say if it is safe to run off of RCRs, but I am one to gamble and if it does not work I just replace the circuit. That is not for everyone though.

I replaced the stock optic of the KL3 with an McR27 and the beam is nice and round, to me seems to have more throw, I'll try to take a picture tomorrow..
The McR27 is 27mm, the bezel opening is about 30mm, so there is a small gap around the reflector.

I look forward to seeing that.

 

[Nitroz]

My KL3 has a nice deep reflector but I am not sure what I want to do with it yet. I know it looks good on a C2 though.

 

[Modder]

you have a KL3 with a reflector ? are those the "old" ribbed models ?

My KL3 has a nice deep reflector but I am not sure what I want to do with it yet. I know it looks good on a C2 though.

 

[Nitroz]

you have a KL3 with a reflector ? are those the "old" ribbed models ?

Well I was wrong. The head I bought was a KL5.

 

[m4a1usr]

Well I was wrong. The head I bought was a KL5.

Well technically you are not wrong. A TIR lens is considered a Reflector/Refractor and while both KL5 versions (ribbed and later version(sounds like a prophylactic commercial?)) both have the TIR lens, the earlier ribbed version has a much smaller/ shallower TIR lens whereas the later version TIR is longer and larger in diameter.

However you could swap a KL3 and KL5 bezel and you would have a faux KL3 with a traditional metalized reflector. Now tell me that wouldn't drive some of us nutz trying to figure that one out!

 

[Modder]

Well technically you are not wrong. A TIR lens is considered a Reflector/Refractor and while both KL5 versions (ribbed and later version(sounds like a prophylactic commercial?)) both have the TIR lens, the earlier ribbed version has a much smaller/ shallower TIR lens whereas the later version TIR is longer and larger in diameter.

did you mean KL3 ?
I have a KL5 and it looks like this (see pic below),
which is not a TIR lens or optic, but a reflector in a conical body with a mirror-like coating.

My KL3 has an optic, but as far as I know, all the KL5's I have seen have a reflector.

 

[m4a1usr]

Ooops,........Yes meant to say KL3. Silly me.

 

[Justin Case]

The old KL4 with the nominally 6V Lux V LED uses a boost driver, so the LED Vf has to be higher than the Vbatt. But the Vbatt can't be too low or the driver won't have enough gusto to reach full regulation. So trying to run a stock KL4 on 1xLi-ion won't quite cut it. You'll get reasonable output (this is the basis for the so-called TW4), but it won't be full power. If you try to run the light with 2xLi-ion, you won't be in a boost condition anymore and you will be direct-driving the LED, which probably won't be good for it. 7.4V nominal input into a 6.0V-6.5V LED is not a recipe for long LED life. The driver might not like it either.

If you plan to use the stock driver, you need to find an LED replacement that closely matches the Vf of the stock Lux V. That's why many folks have used a Cree MC-E in 2S2P. A 6V Cree XM-L EZW should also work. At least electrically. Can't say about physical fit of the EZW (e.g., LED die focus height).