hi

[270winchester]

howdy fellas:
this type of question makes me irritated when people ask me about my surefires, so hopefully y'all won't get together and hunt me down /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
how does one justify paying 99-160 bucks fr a small light? now i know that surefires are expensive, but the Arc's take it to a whole new level. I know that some arcs are micro-processor regulated, water proof, and all that, but the cost-output ratio still lags behind the SF's, coonsidering you can get a 9p for ~75 ish which is like a small flood light in your palm. do you think that arc will make their products more affordable eventually or will always keep their products at that price level just to keep folks like me out of the loop? their products look damned nice, hands down, so what's keeping them from making more of it and accessible to the rest of us?
nick

 

[KingSmono]

I'm no economics expert, but if Arc can charge 180 bucks for their top of the line light, and manage to SELL OUT their entire stock, almost from the very instant they're made available, I don't think they're going to DROP the price anytime soon...

 

[Empedocles]

Title should be: What makes an Arc worth the price

I'll only say this--

The chances are that you don't NEED a $150 flashlight. Most of us don not.

However, the Arc lights have the price point they do simply because they are the best at what they do. I don't think that Peter G is gettig stinking rich making these lights. They are specialty products with a limited production run.

I'll let others pick up where I left off. My advice to you would be to pick one up somehow. You can try it out. If, after using it for a week or so, you feel it's a waste of your money, or not worth the price, you can always sell it on B/S/T for slightly less than yor purchase price.

Hope this helps.

 

[BentHeadTX]

Re: Title should be: What makes an Arc worth the price

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a 9P is a flashlight with a light bulb inside. Arcs use Luxeon LEDs and current regulators to keep them fed properly. It costs more dollars to use Luxeon LEDs than hot wires.

 

[357]

Re: Title should be: What makes an Arc worth the price

Arc prices will only go up. They are being sold faster than they are being made. The LSH series for example, has been unavailable for sale for several months and yet it is highly demanded. Demand for Arcs far exceeds supply, IMO. The price can only go up, unless Arc some day becomes huge and increases inventory greatly.

If you want to try an Arc for under $75, try buying an LSH second whenever they are available again. Once LSH comes back, there are bound to be some seconds. Even the seconds are very nice lights...

 

[Rothrandir]

Re: Title should be: What makes an Arc worth the price

to compare an arc with an incandescant surefire is really two completely different animals.

i can tell you this though.
if i'm going to make something the best, i'm not going to sell it a "value" price. i think arc works the same way.

 

[sotto]

[ QUOTE ]
270winchester said:
how does one justify paying 99-160 bucks fr a small light?

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite simply, one doesn't have to. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif


Fortunately.

 

[ChocolateLab33]

I totally agree with 270winchester. Don't get me wrong, I love Arc lights and I have many of them to prove that but you can get other lights that are just as good and better than Arc for much better prices. (don't shoot the messenger, you know it's the truth) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

 

[gregw]

You need to compare an Arc with the Surefire LED series, not the low-end Surefire flashlights. The cheapest Surefire LED is the L1 at $125. This is more expensive than a standard Arc LSH at $99.95. As to prices coming down, I don't think that will happen as they sell out the moment they are in stock..

Personally, I would advice you to take a look at the B/S/T Lights forum if you are really looking to buy an Arc.

 

[357]

^And IME, the Surefire L1 (priced at around $125) has the worst tinted LEDs I have ever seen. BOTH of my L1s have extremely poor LED tint, so bad that one L1 beam looks bright purple, and the other L1 beam looks dark blue-violet hotspot with green corona. Needless to say, my days of buying 1 watt Surefire LEds are over. I do like their 5 watt series though, both my L2s have good tint.

At least when you buy an Arc, you get good or better tint. My 3 Arc LSH firsts (one of which being a premium) all have good LED tint, and even my LSH second has above average tint. My Arc two 4+ first have excellent tint, and my Arc 4 second has average tint (slightly green at lower levels).

Having said all this, there are good lights out there at lower prices...but none of them I know of can do what the Arc 4+ does in terms of many regulated levels and easy switching between 4 levels.

IMO, for EDC, Arc is hard to beat. I don't use Arcs for larger tasks, due to the runtime and battery types. I use C and D cell Elektrolumens for around-the-house and hiking lights since I can find batteries for them easily at Costco, and they stay bright a very very long time. In addition, when I have the chance I carry slightly larger lights with higher brightness (Pelican M6 LED). For tactical uses, usually a Surefire gets the nod. But, for EDC, the Arc LSH and/or 4+ is pretty darn good. And as a last ditch backup, the Arc AAA/AA is better than nothing....(I've never relied on the Arc AAA or AA as sole carry light)

 

[ChocolateLab33]

Yes, if you want all the fancy gadgetry in a flashlight, buy an Arc. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gifArc makes excellent lights! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif But you can't ever purchase them because they are never available so in place of the LS series, I recommend the Longbow Micra. <font color="blue"> </font>

 

[Commander]

[ QUOTE ]
270winchester said:
how does one justify paying 99-160 bucks fr a small light?

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite simply, IT'S THE BEST!



/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

 

[Wellspring]

When that last 10% of performance costs 100% more, usually you can settle. Some of us work in fields (field maintenance, military, police, rescue, hiking) that require the best. They need that last 10%-- they can't exactly buy two lesser lights can use both. And then some of us are just flashoholics who simply want the best as a boutique item.

It's a question of preferences. I don't own a TV. That saves me the hardware cost (TV + DVD + game console + etc) and the service cost (cable/satellite, games for console). With what I save every year, I could buy lots of Arc 4's.

 

[flashlite]

Arc & Surefire sell to a small, niche market. They sell to small groups of people who demand exceptional quality and are willing to pay a premium for it.

The higher price is not completely attributable to higher quality though. Since they don't sell in large volumes, they don't attain "economies of scale" like larger manufacturers can. Larger manufacturers can afford expensive & more efficient machines, borrow money at lower rates, purchase supplies in bulk to take advantage of large volume discounts. They can spread these costs and the costs of R&D over a larger volume of units so that each unit can be sold at a lower price.

Since the demand for such exceptional quality is fairly low and there are other manufacturers offering good quality, lower priced options, it seems unlikely that either manufacturer will lower prices under their current strategy.

 

[Byron Walter]

Just cost out the incandescent bulbs vs a led over, say, 1000 to 2000 hours and leds make (economic) sense, even when the led light cost an arm & leg. But there are other excellent less expensive led lights. The problem for me is that I really count on being able to pick the right amount of light for whatever it is that I'm doing. Since I usually use my Arc 4 at either level 16 or level 9, I tend to get exceptional runtimes from my batteries. This too helps to "justify" the steep initial cost.

But to each their own, eh?

 

[357]

[ QUOTE ]
ChocolateLab33 said:
Yes, if you want all the fancy gadgetry in a flashlight, buy an Arc. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gifArc makes excellent lights! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif But you can't ever purchase them because they are never available so in place of the LS series, I recommend the Longbow Micra. <font color="blue"> </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

I second the Micra recommendation. IMO, the exterior fit and finish of the LB Micra is BETTER than Arc. However, the regulator circuit appears to be less effective in the Longbow Micra, as runtime isn't particularly good and it doesn't work as well in moon mode. Both are nice lights, and each have their own advantages/disadvantages.

 

[mut]

[ QUOTE ]
ChocolateLab33 said:
Yes, if you want all the fancy gadgetry in a flashlight, buy an Arc. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gifArc makes excellent lights! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif But you can't ever purchase them because they are never available so in place of the LS series, I recommend the Longbow Micra. <font color="blue"> </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

There are almost always an ARC 4+ for sale in the B/S/T. I had mine up for over 3 weeks. I think there are two up for sale right now. So even if you cannot get a new one from ARC you can get one at a large discount. The great thing about the ARC4+ and the rest of the ARCs for that matter is that there is a lifetime warranty.

Just my $0.02 worth. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

mut