HID vs LED luxon K2 bicycle lights??

yellow

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You are registered here since 2004 and think of purchasing a K2 powered light NOW?
:rolleyes:

as only 10 W HID and Led should be compared (roghly same light class):
HID sucks, very bad color, awful in the outdoors. Better stay with led, is also more durable.
K2 surely is bright, but primarily acts to provide heat from burning power from the batt.
Wait for / build Your own Cree or SSC based light, 3-4 emitters to be in the same class as an HID. --> double output with same current / double runtime at same output.
Till the release of the new Luxeon makes (which are "in the works as their marketing claims") their actual models are plain too bad and overcome technology to buy them, except for being reduced in pirce considerably. That would be a single reason to think about them.
 

kromeke

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"Do you guys think this LED light is bright enough?"

For off road, no. For street use, yes. However, some schools of thought feel that brighter is better.

I myself have been using a luxeon I based light of my own construction for several years with no accidents and no close calls. But I live in a small town, and it is possible that I've been lucky. I also wear a reflective vest while riding at night. I don't have a source of the statistics right now, but when I've searched in the past, the largest set of accidents at night occured when cars would pull out in front of unlit bicycles, so I believe that a light which enables you to be seen is generally enough to keep you safe. Others believe that you need a really bright light to keep you safe.
 

Blindasabat

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yellow said:
You are registered here since 2004 and think of purchasing a K2 powered light NOW?
:rolleyes:
Easy now... we are all more polite here than in other forums.
yellow said:
as only 10 W HID and Led should be compared (roghly same light class):
HID sucks, very bad color, awful in the outdoors. Better stay with led, is also more durable.
HID is the hot light source in biking now, it is actually better outdoors than all but the best (warmest or green tint) LEDs for depth perception and lack of a pale cast on grass and earth because as an incan, HID has wider spectrum output.
yellow said:
K2 surely is bright, but primarily acts to provide heat from burning power from the batt.
Wait for / build Your own Cree or SSC based light, 3-4 emitters to be in the same class as an HID. --> double output with same current / double runtime at same output.
Till the release of the new Luxeon makes (which are "in the works as their marketing claims") their actual models are plain too bad and overcome technology to buy them, except for being reduced in pirce considerably. That would be a single reason to think about them.
LEDs are very expensive in decent bike lights right now. HID bulbs are even more expensive, so I would wait for Cree or SSC lights or upgrade your own to newest LEDs.
 

Blindasabat

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MatajumotorS said:
I am using Led lights now, i think that hid will be more fragile... or i am wrong?
Strictly speaking HID is more fragile because LEDs are so impact resistant, but most, if not all HID makers take the precaution to mount the bulb assembly in shock absorbing design to protect it. HID bulbs are very expensive to replace and nobody would buy them at all if they broke all the time. They generaly last much longer than Xenon or Halogen, though I have used Halogen Vistalite for over 6 years now with no blown or broken bulbs and believe me I have had some dramatic night time crashes that witnesses thought would put me in the hospital.

And I have friends that use HID with no problems. I don't because of the initial expense, I like my Vistalite so much, and I want new generation LED.
 

wasBlinded

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HID lights are not particularly fragile, and because they are not dependant on a filament have a longer life and handle vibration better than an incandescent.

LEDs should be even more robust and reliable if well made, but they fall short of HID systems in total light output, in general.
Over the next 6 months or so we should be seeing multi-LED systems using the new high output/hi efficiency LEDs (represented at present by Cree XR-E and Seoul P4) that rival HID in total light output. I commute using a single Seoul P4 LED light, and it provides more than enough light for the streets and speeds of my commute. What you need will really depend on where you will be riding, and for how long.
 

GaryF

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The HID lights I have seen have a bulb life expectancy of 500-2500 hours, where the LED should last much longer than that. The wild card is that something else could go wrong, wiring, electronics, crash damage, etc, which could knock it out. But you would expect the LED to be more durable.

You didn't ask about this, but the amount of light is another issue. The HID would normally be brighter, but a multi K2 (or even better, a multi Cree) light could be comparable to a HID. One question that is hard to answer for another person is "how much light is enough?". I'm currently using a Fenix single Cree LED light, and it rivals the halogen lights I used when I rode in long distance / overnight rides and races 20 years ago. I would say that it is enough for me to feel very comfortable at 20mph road speeds, but there are times when a little more light would be better.

Advice – the Cree leds that recently entered the market put out about the same amount of light as a K2, but use half the power. It might be worth waiting a bit for Cree based bicycle lights to be available.
 

yellow

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HID is the hot light source in biking now, it is actually better outdoors than all but the best (warmest or green tint) LEDs for depth perception and lack of a pale cast on grass and earth because as an incan, HID has wider spectrum output.
Just one question:
Why? Do You use one?
imho thats just good marketing of the producers for a technology they can press even more money out of the customers, than with led (based on the retail prices for we modders do have to pay).

And to give my point of view a bit of a background, here is a pic I took some 2 weeks ago.
As I already typed some times: maybe my model is bad (but the other HIDs (Edisons) I saw by now, have not been this different. No direct comparison by now) :(
this underpower, blue/green whatever in the middle is a W-A 10 W HID, 13 degree bulb, the one most makers use. Run at a constant current of 10.8 V to the ballast (overpower but within specs). No chance to say, if the trail marks are blue, green or red from a short distance already. No good green (grass) or brown color showing. Brighter, but only awful compared to a good single led emitter (on the left). A multiemitter with 3 or 4 led, running on roughly the same consumption will eat this one. (planning to built such a light in short)

lights tested, the Cree with the optic is not shown:
amllt3zumr3v700ok.jpg


beamshot, cam on auto, all lights run for about 10-15 mins with fresh batts at that time
amllrpqr338m5hvg4.jpg


imho HID is already outdated technology by now
but the show when powering up is great :)
 

yellow

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PS: I do agree on the "be polite" part and apologize (but: was my simple question without any other word really offensive?)
just could/can not understand how someone in here this long might think of such an expensive product, when new technology with double efficiency is available. If a new member would ask, or if it were a plug-in thing, where current comsumption does not really count, OK. But here ...

think of it this way: anyone would consider purchasing a 2-stroke-engine powered car?
:thinking:

[edit] forgot my thinking of the HID:
imho still nothing beats a halogen (when You like their light outcome, I do no longer like it. Always think the batt is depleated already). Problem is the limited power source.
The HID was an idea because with about 1/3rd of the power of Halogen, the output is bright enough to use it as a single light. Means: good for long runtime needs.
Color rendering was and still is not even to discuss about, its plain bad.
And, as the image shows with the outcome of just a single led: when the actual, latest emitters put together to run on the same current as a HID (= 3-4 led on 800-1000 mA), there is no place for discussion left AND the led offer the opportunity to be run on much less power while still giving some results. (here even Halogen is better than HID)
[/edit]
 
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FASTCAR

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I have tried 20+ lights on my Mtn bike.No question at all go HID. I have NEVER broken a bulb or ballast.Led and incan have sad light output.


I use a 24W HID with a diffuser. I see like daylight 180deg in front of me for 1/4 a mile or more.
 
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Blindasabat

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yellow said:
Just one question:
Why? Do You use one?
I have used one and race night races with and alongside many people using them. Most of the serious 12 and 24 hour mountain bike racers use them. So, yes, and I stand by what I said. I have seen MANY in use and they look more white than my halogens, but not as white as the LED flashlights I took to use around camp at races.
I have tried LED and only some (like I said before) "white" tints, V1 in particular (which I prefer), give decent outdoor rendition and cut through humid summer air. I have spent a long time testing these against each other. Your beamshot is impressive, but pictures don't clearly show the true effect.
yellow said:
imho thats just good marketing of the producers for a technology they can press even more money out of the customers, than with led (based on the retail prices for we modders do have to pay).
And to give my point of view a bit of a background, here is a pic I took some 2 weeks ago.
As I already typed some times: maybe my model is bad (but the other HIDs (Edisons) I saw by now, have not been this different. No direct comparison by now) this underpower, blue/green whatever in the middle is a W-A 10 W HID, 13 degree bulb, the one most makers use. Run at a constant current of 10.8 V to the ballast (overpower but within specs).
I agree about HID marketing, but you DO seem to have a bad HID (old bulb? your camera's spectral capacity, something...) with some weird color does not look normal compared to any of the HIDs I have seen.
Look at the spectral chart compared to LED and incans - best easy to see example is in Surefire's 2007 catalog available on their web site. Wider spectrum (as I mentioned before) reflects more info back to the eye, and the human eye likes to see that red/orange wavelength missing from almost all "white" LEDs. Compared to halogen and xenon, there is admittedly better color rendition (remember, I don't actually favor the overpriced HIDs myself) because of the even wider spectral output. They are more white in most cases.
yellow said:
No chance to say, if the trail marks are blue, green or red from a short distance already. No good green (grass) or brown color showing. Brighter, but only awful compared to a good single led emitter (on the left). A multiemitter with 3 or 4 led, running on roughly the same consumption will eat this one. (planning to built such a light in short)
imho HID is already outdated technology by now
but the show when powering up is great :)
The LEDs you refer to on the left have the same humidity reflectance problem that narrow spectrum LEDs have. The same reason actual "fog" lights are amber or yellow. They have a distinct lack of depth compared to the Xenon too. I will continue to believe my experience than one picture. That picture shows a 20W Xenon spanking your HID. Even though it is only a 10W HID (smallest available), it should not look that bad.

Your Cree are performing well at 800mA, but their performance is still tint dependant. The warm TV1J (my favorite tint from above) works better among LEDs, but even that can barely be seen in this picture.

I agree that HIDs days are numbered (as are incan) but they have life in them yet. I never really believed in HID myself much, though they are more efficient than incans. The expense (like I sad before) is too much.
I will wait for or make multiple WARM LEDs in a bike light, and then retest against my Vistalite HOT Halogen. I think I will run an LED/incan combo for a while.

Nice pictures and nice debating with you.
 

Blindasabat

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yellow said:
PS: I do agree on the "be polite" part and apologize (but: was my simple question without any other word really offensive?)
The question could have been phrased without implying anything negative about the original poster. I think many people would have been offended by your implication (what you were implying).

Best to just make an informational statement:
"I think that the new generation of Crees and Seoul Semiconductor LEDs are a better option than K2 now. Too bad none are out in bike lights ...yet."
 
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