How do the throwers do it?

[I came to the light...]

I've looked around for the best EDC light, then looked around for the best pocket-sized thrower, and noticed something strange in comparing them. Specifically, the Fenix P3D Q5 and the Tiablo A9 (Q5). Despite the size difference, they run on the same batteries, so I would think this would be a fairly equal comparison (except, of course, in the throw).

The P3D, commonly said to have some of the most efficient circuitry, puts out 215 lumens for 1.8 hours. The A9 puts out 256 for 3.5 hours. With the same bulb and batteries, it would seem that the A9 has a far more efficient engine.

I don't think heat sinking is the answer: you can't even run the P3D for 10+ minutes on turbo, so obviously the 1.8 hr time is either interupted or with cooling.

 

[TigerhawkT3]

Don't believe everything you read. See this thread for an example.

Have you ever shopped for flashlights on eBay?

 

[I came to the light...]

Not shopped, but looked around, and gave up trying to find accurate figures

Tiablo claims 256 for the A9, not A8 - sorry, I fail to understand the example...

I know the ratings are exaggerated, partly because of measuring at the emitter, but I was assuming the exaggeration of the two companies was about equal. A 40 lumen difference would be a pretty big difference in how much companies exagerate - that's twice as much as the actual difference.

 

[TigerhawkT3]

I wasn't providing an example for the precise model so much as for the general idea. Some manufacturers fudge numbers like output and runtime more than others. Oddly enough, another example of this is the SF G2L, which advertises an output of 80 lumens and a runtime of 12 hours. It's really only getting 80L for the first few hours, and the rest is at some lower level.

Fenix really does have some of the most efficient electronics, usually in the neighborhood of 80-90%. It's highly doubtful that any other company could design a 180% efficient circuit.

 

[asdalton]

Unfortunately, you're not going to find any consistency in manufacturers' advertised output "ratings"--neither in accuracy, nor in degree of exaggeration.

 

[WadeF]

Tiablo A9 is most likely delivering more current to the Q5 than the P3D is. The P3D can only push the Q5 so hard due to lack of material to absorb the heat. The P3D may only run the Q5 at 800-950mA. I'm not sure, maybe someone can give a spec on that. The Tiablo A9 maybe 1A or more.

 

[I came to the light...]

That would make sense, except that pretty much every throwers claims a higher lumen rating than any EDC claims...

 

[I came to the light...]

Wade - Tiablo claims to run at exactly 1A, and I remember reading in some review that it's pretty close to that.

I haven't seem a rating on the P3D or other EDC lights, just passive comments about running at 1A - I geuss that's the question now.

 

[WadeF]

The Fenix claim of 215 lumens with the Q5 is confusing. Normally they state emitter lumens, say with the P3D Rebel100 at 200 lumens (emitter lumens). When tested, CPF'er Chevrofreak, who seems to have a pretty accurate home made integrating sphere, gets around 140-150 lumens out the front. With the P3D Q5 he got around 205 lumens, out the front. If that is the case, then the P3D would have to have emitter lumens more inthe 250 lumen range.

I'm not sure if Fenix was trying to state out the front lumens for once with the P3D Q5?

In other lights I have with Q5's they seem to be delivering around 200 lumens out the front, from my own light box tests. So Q5's at 1A should be somewhere around 250-256 lumens at the emitter. Someone can probably dig up some specs from Cree showing what a Q5 should be doing at 1A. Then it's up to the reflector and lens as to how many lumens are actually making it out the front. So when you see lumens stats you have to know if they are quoting lumens at the emitter, or lumens out the front.

There's nothign magical going on with all these lights. If 20 lights have a Q5 in them with 1A of current getting to the Q5, they probably all have around 200 lumens coming out the front, assuming they all have good quality reflectors and lenses. Depending on the shape of the reflector, size, texture or smooth, optics, etc, will determine how the beam looks, how well it throws, etc.

 

[StefanFS]

The answer is in reflector area, reflector geometry/depth and reflector diameter. Just to name a few factors. With deeper and bigger reflectors you get more throw with CREE emitters. Add efficient heatsinking and you can drive your CREE etc. at a higher level for a longer time.
Stefan

 

[I came to the light...]

The Fenix claim of 215 lumens with the Q5 is confusing. Normally they state emitter lumens, say with the P3D Rebel100 at 200 lumens. When tested, CPF'er Chevrofreak, who seems to have a pretty accurate home made integrating sphere, gets around 140-150 lumens. With the P3D Q5 he got around 205 lumens, out the front. If that is the case, then the P3D would have to have emitter lumens more inthe 250 lumen range.

I'm not sure if Fenix was trying to state out the front lumens for once with the P3D Q5?

In other lights I have with Q5's they seem to be delivering around 200 lumens out the front, from my own light box tests. So Q5's at 1A should be somewhere around 250-256 lumens at the emitter. Someone can probably dig up some specs from Cree showing what a Q5 should be doing at 1A. Then it's up to the reflector and lens as to how many lumens are actually making it out the front. So when you see lumens states you have to know if they are quoting lumens at the emitter, or lumens out the front.

There's nothign magical going on with all these lights. If 20 lights have a Q5 in them with 1A of current getting to the Q5, they probably all have around 200 lumens coming out the front, assuming they all have good quality reflectors and lenses. Depending on the shape of the reflector, size, texture or smooth, optics, etc, will determine how the beam looks, how well it throws, etc.

Thanks Wade - question answered